Canon’s EOS-1D X Mark II equivalent mirrorless is coming sooner than originally thought [CR1]

Del Paso

M3 Singlestroke
Aug 9, 2018
425
389
Prediction: Canon will release an awesome camera. The perpetually negative, who'll never buy a camera at that level no matter what, will %itch and moan and tell us why they will switch to Sony if Canon doesn't "get it right" in 3-4 years with the 1RX II. I'll recycle this comment at that time. Oh! And we'll hear about all their friends at the local camera club switching too. Meanwhile, Sony's market share will slide to 8%. We'll also keep hearing about how an empty tube (adapter) destroys IQ and is a potential point of failure, and complaints it doesn't come in white to match their big tele lenses. We'll get links to all the articles and YouTube videos they think prove their points. In the mean time, somehow people will still be taking great photos and videos with piss poor Canon gear. Oh! And all the design experts / engineers who'll fake knowledge they gained thanks to google will be there too.
This is indeed to be expected, and, as usual, trolling will come from the same Wonderful Sony Fanboys, never from Nikon or Fuji.
But you are right: the camera will be awesome!
 
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Kit.

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 25, 2011
1,010
474
So what are the main reasons for requiring AFMA for on-sensor PDAF?
I think it's because some lenses cannot be focused both fast and accurately at the same time, and AFMA helps to avoid focus hunt.

Canon's DPAF does combine characteristics of CD with PD, which is advantageous for accurate AF. Does that and the density of AF points mean that it's going to be slower than rivals with fewer PD detectors combined with CD detect?
It is more computationally intensive, which doesn't mean that focusing by itself is slower, but it may lead to slower frame rate with continuous AF. And of course all the drawbacks of the need to deal with 2x more pixels than the competitors have for the sensors of similar resolution.
 
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Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
7,948
1,335
Canada
No doubt there are a few people who make a lot of noise and who are continually deriding Canon, but Canon still sell more camera equipment than Sony or Nikon, and a lot more than Fuji. Maybe those of us who still use a Canon camera are just not interested in joining the debate and we are much happier to go out and take some photos instead.
A couple of weeks ago I attended an event that was sponsored by Sony. As I walked through the door I was mobbed by a crowd of Sony zealots who wanted to know why I had not yet "upgraded" my Canon 5D mk4 to a Sony a73 or A9. They each had their own story to tell about how they once used a Canon or Nikon DSLR but they had now seen the light and moved to Sony. Well good luck to them, but in the practical session I did not notice that their pictures were any better than those that were taken by the few Canon and Nikon photographers who were present.
There are a lot of people on forums that can not get past spec sheets for the sensor. Most people use a camera system, and that means lenses, flashes, and bodies. It greatly includes ergonomics, a place where Canon excels. And reputation for reliably......

Yes, Sony has better sensors, but that is only one piece of the puzzle.
 

AlanF

5DSR
Aug 16, 2012
5,153
2,080
I think it's because some lenses cannot be focused both fast and accurately at the same time, and AFMA helps to avoid focus hunt.


It is more computationally intensive, which doesn't mean that focusing by itself is slower, but it may lead to slower frame rate with continuous AF. And of course all the drawbacks of the need to deal with 2x more pixels than the competitors have for the sensors of similar resolution.
I have seen it mentioned elsewhere that the AFMA on mirrorless is to speed up the focus acquisition and avoid hunting when the CD comes in. So there must be some aberrations that need to be corrected by AFMA for on-sensor PD. Do you know what these aberrations are?
 

Quarkcharmed

EOS 5DMkIV
Feb 14, 2018
347
223
Australia
www.michaelborisenko.com
This is indeed to be expected, and, as usual, trolling will come from the same Wonderful Sony Fanboys, never from Nikon or Fuji.
But you are right: the camera will be awesome!
Probably it's not a camera for me, I don't even want to think about the price. I'll be waiting for a 5DIV-grade one. However, I don't know if the camera will be awesome. I hope they put a new sensor in it that can compete with Sony. I'm not a Sony fanboy btw, I don't even have a Sony. But Nikon and Fuji all use Sony sensors. That's the only area where Canon lags behind...
 

Architect1776

Defining the poetics of space through Architecture
Aug 18, 2017
214
165
117
Williamsport, PA
Sony’s specs have exceeded Canon’s for years...over which time Sony failed to capture ILC market share from Canon. But hey, maybe the next time Newton lets an apple go, it will float up.
Sony has not exceeded in many ways as far as specs go. In a couple of areas yes but by a slim margin so as to be irrelevant. But Sony very recently has stepped the game up in the last year and is beginning to almost be pro level as Canon and Nikon have been all along. There is more to being a pro product than blogger and enthusiasts exaggerated comments in order to get clicks etc. Sony will struggle with the limited mount as time goes forward as Nikon did for decades until finally moving on to the Z cameras.
 

AlanF

5DSR
Aug 16, 2012
5,153
2,080
Probably it's not a camera for me, I don't even want to think about the price. I'll be waiting for a 5DIV-grade one. However, I don't know if the camera will be awesome. I hope they put a new sensor in it that can compete with Sony. I'm not a Sony fanboy btw, I don't even have a Sony. But Nikon and Fuji all use Sony sensors. That's the only area where Canon lags behind...
Canon sensors are now very good. The 5DIV is pretty close to the best of Sony/Nikon, and the 1DXII is as good as the A9 for DR. The extreme BIF folks claim that Canon lags behind in AF, which is inferior to Sony A9 and Nikon D850/500 for tracking fast flying birds against backgrounds. For my type of BIF and even flying dragonflies, Canon locks on very quickly. But, I have seen some remarkable shots from Sonys and Nikons for the extreme stuff.
 

canonmike

EOS T7i
Jan 5, 2013
98
42
The Olympic Games at home in Tokyo is THE opportunity for Canon for the next ~50 years, before they get again this event. They will absolutely do everything to present the best of the best until then. How can you have doubts for that? Then maybe a long sleep can begin....
So this means of course a 1DX 3 and very propably a RF pendant for it (named RX?) and a high megapixel (named RS?) along with the most used Lenses there...

After 2020 it is interesting, what product line they support more...
They will be on home turf, so your argument has merit in front of the home crowd. And, I hope you are right.
 

Del Paso

M3 Singlestroke
Aug 9, 2018
425
389
But in the past Sony did not have much if any glass that was competitive with Canon, that is changing. The G Masters are really nice lenses. I still do not see most Canon users jumping ship. But the ones that do are enjoying the benefits that Sony already brought to market. That is more fun than coming to CR daily hoping the next release will be the one they have been waiting for. They must have the technology, but I see the problem with Canon is too many lines have power over one another. Every camera seems to be limited in some way. Most are awesome, but missing something that is available in another line. Unless they revamp the entire way to do their business, we will see more of the same. Luckily the lenses don't work that way.
You seem to forget that Canon has entered the mirrorless market very recently!:)
 

canonmike

EOS T7i
Jan 5, 2013
98
42
I've gone to always shooting primes in the mid-90s, to trinity around 2001, but since 2010 or sometime I've switched to 24-105/4IS and stayed there. The first-gen EF was good but a little soft. The RF is as sharp as it needs to be, though, in my opinion.

I really don't think the 24-70/2.8IS is a must-have for a pro any more. You've got the f/4IS prime on one side, then on the other the 28-70/2 and the f/1.2 primes.

What this means is that on the tele end the 70-200/2.8 is also kind of dead. A 100-300/4ISL or even 100-400/5.6ISL would be the same size, more or less, and get the same kind of bokeh at the long end.

Finally on the wide end a 12-24/4IS would be the logical next move.

In short a new trinity is foreseeable that instead of 17-200 at f/2.8, now it covers more like 12-400 at f/4.

One final note is that with f/2.8 trinities there's not quite as much interest for big fast primes, but with an f/4 trinity suddenly the f/1.2, f/1.4, and even f/1.8 and f/2.0 glass could excite a legitimate interest.

What we really need more than anything is 35/2 and 50/1.8 that stick out no further than the grip, so we can have our R's in our backpack at all times. And with f/4 trinity you could see quite a number sold to even the reporters who today have no interest in f/1.8 given that their limited-range trinity is f/2.8.
Good points. That's why I like the F/2.0 22mm EF-M on my M50. You can stick this combo in your pocket, all the while maintaining a low profile, waiting for that next candid shot. The added bonus, both are very affordable.
 
May 30, 2019
8
6
You seem to forget that Canon has entered the mirrorless market very recently!:)
They did and pushed some people away. The R and RP look nice but are limited in their scope. I was super excited about them till I saw the real world reviews. I cannot imagine that Canon with their tech and financial resources could not make a mirrorless camera that can shoot more than a couple frames per second when in continuous auto-focus. That had to be a design choice as to not interfere with other lines. Sure they have a "Pro" model in the pipeline, and with the "Pro" moniker it will price it out of the range of many. I don't have time to wait for the 2nd and 3rd generation of the R to mature and add features I do need now. The EOS R system is the future, but it is taking too long to get there.
 

Kit.

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 25, 2011
1,010
474
I have seen it mentioned elsewhere that the AFMA on mirrorless is to speed up the focus acquisition and avoid hunting when the CD comes in. So there must be some aberrations that need to be corrected by AFMA for on-sensor PD. Do you know what these aberrations are?
I don't know. Pure speculation from my side, but I think CDAF itself needs to know how sharp the lens can actually be to avoid hunting.

Another thing to consider is that some lens protocols designed for SLRs may be suboptimal for CDAF. For example, Canon EF protocol has "focus to max", "focus to min", and "move focus for +-N units" commands, but seems to lack a "stop right there" command.
 

Dantana

EOS RP
Jan 29, 2013
205
54
Los Angeles, CA
www.flickr.com
Prediction: Canon will release an awesome camera. The perpetually negative, who'll never buy a camera at that level no matter what, will %itch and moan and tell us why they will switch to Sony if Canon doesn't "get it right" in 3-4 years with the 1RX II. I'll recycle this comment at that time. Oh! And we'll hear about all their friends at the local camera club switching too. Meanwhile, Sony's market share will slide to 8%. We'll also keep hearing about how an empty tube (adapter) destroys IQ and is a potential point of failure, and complaints it doesn't come in white to match their big tele lenses. We'll get links to all the articles and YouTube videos they think prove their points. In the mean time, somehow people will still be taking great photos and videos with piss poor Canon gear. Oh! And all the design experts / engineers who'll fake knowledge they gained thanks to google will be there too.
I would put money on that happening.

I may, however, place a side bet that Canon introduces a white EF to RF adapter that has some capability that I can't think of right now (Filter plus control ring? Built in switchable 1.4x TC?).
 
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tiggy@mac.com

Pentax K-1000
Jan 20, 2014
476
149
Thetford, VT
www.ForestMetrix.com
Sony’s specs have exceeded Canon’s for years...over which time Sony failed to capture ILC market share from Canon. But hey, maybe the next time Newton lets an apple go, it will float up.
I do think there is more of a threat to Canon’s market share now. Not that I’m part of the “doomed!” Crowd. It is simply that we are at the crux of a tech shift, like when digital came about, or AF; and people like me - knowing we’ll likely have a very different system in 2020 than we did in 2018 - are open to switching.

I own a dozen EF lenses and the 1dx2, but in the past month I’ve taken more shots on those lenses with the Sony A9 and the Lumix s1r via Sigma’s rather amazing little adapters. This gives me a different perspective. Yes, Canon may repeat it’s swallowing of the market, but if it does so, I believe it will require as-good tech. I personally hope it will do just that, but it hasn’t yet.

It’s quite easy now to add a new system body to a legacy ef lens library without the old consequences of major hassle and losses involved in switching out lenses. This time feels different to me.

The recent evolutions of the A9 firmware and the Sigma mc11 firmware surprised me in different ways. I think the A9 tracking is now so good that even on adapted glass it is better than that of my 1dx2 using the same ef lens. The sigma mc11 adapter is now finally providing a good deal of “invisibility” of the adapter. I’ve never had so much fun using my tilt shifts as now. Focus peaking makes my tilt adjustments instant and decisive.

My hope is that Canon gives us a mirrorless flagship with >10 fps while autofocusing; eye detect tracking that works at least 20 feet away; either 30 mp or 24mp with no AA filter. Happy to sell my A9 tomorrow if it does. Doesn’t affect my lens lineup either way. That brand nonchalance is precisely what could never happen before.
 

takesome1

EOS 5Ds R II
Aug 23, 2013
1,477
103
No, why would it?

It just makes everyone look like idiots.
You should think about your posts and their content., especially when offering a critique of how someone communicates in a post.
If it makes everyone look like idiots, everyone would also include you.
 

Normalnorm

EOS 7D MK II
Dec 25, 2012
489
95
I have seen it mentioned elsewhere that the AFMA on mirrorless is to speed up the focus acquisition and avoid hunting when the CD comes in. So there must be some aberrations that need to be corrected by AFMA for on-sensor PD. Do you know what these aberrations are?
I do not believe this can be accurate as focus is achieved at the sensor plane. AFMA is an adjustment that offsets the calibrated settings of a lens to correct for the mis-alignment of the PD array that is in the body of the camera and not at the focal plane.
The very definition of focus at the sensor plane means no inaccuracy can be introduced as the focus error would be instantly detected and adjusted for.
None of my ML cameras have AFMA and they are frantically sharper with better AF accuracy than any of my Canon DSLRs.
The R does not even have that ability.
As for hunting, that is not an AFMA issue but an AF issue that bedevils AF of every stripe.
 

3kramd5

EOS 5D MK IV
Mar 2, 2012
2,954
330
You should think about your posts and their content., especially when offering a critique of how someone communicates in a post.
If it makes everyone look like idiots, everyone would also include you.
Yes’m; why do you suspect I would exclude myself from this population? If people only made themselves look like idiots, I would have commented differently (or, more likely, not at all).
 
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