Canon’s Official Full Frame Mirrorless Announcement Will Come After Photokina [CR2]

Canon Rumors Guy

EOS-1D X Mark II
Jul 20, 2010
6,951
51
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#1
We’re told that most of the mirrorless hype will belong to Nikon ahead of Photokina next month. A solid source is saying that no official announcement in regards to a full frame mirrorless camera from Canon will happen before Photokina next month.
While we couldn’t confirm an announcement date, we’re told that October 2018 continues to get mentioned as a possible month in which Canon will address mirrorless. Though that may not necessarily mean an announcement for a full frame mirrorless camera.
There is still the possibility of a development announcement for a full frame mirrorless camera.
Continue reading...
 
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#3
I guess Canon is waiting to see what Nikon does - and more importantly how people react to it - > with particular emphasis to how Nikon users react to the news of a new lens mount.

But why wait untill after the major trade show to make a big announcement (or teaser, or whatever they be planning)? "before Photokina" does not rule out "During Photokina".
 
Aug 12, 2018
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#6
I am wondering if they will launch it this year then. Photokina this year is in perfect sync with christmas sales. Like you show your new camera around in september, release it right after, make the first slight sale for christmas. Therefore I assume that if Canon wanted to launch FF mirrorless this year, they would have made it happen for Photokina.
 
Likes: fox40phil
Aug 6, 2018
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#7
I guess Canon is waiting to see what Nikon does - and more importantly how people react to it - > with particular emphasis to how Nikon users react to the news of a new lens mount.
I Canon has something near ready for production then it is to late to see and think about mount. If they are in stage to make a decision about the mount then we cannot expect anything within a year or more.
Production in reality is really slow process. Yes they can produce 10k units per week, but to get to that is damn long process.
 

BillB

EOS Rebel T7i
May 11, 2017
788
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#10
I guess Canon is waiting to see what Nikon does - and more importantly how people react to it - > with particular emphasis to how Nikon users react to the news of a new lens mount.

But why wait untill after the major trade show to make a big announcement (or teaser, or whatever they be planning)? "before Photokina" does not rule out "During Photokina".
There is also the possibility of an M5II, a 7DIII, or a 5DSRII, if Canon want to try for some EOSM or DSLR buzz.
 

Hector1970

EOS Rebel T7i
Mar 22, 2012
850
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#11
I’m not sure why Canon would wait until after Photokina. As said above , just before or during might be more effective. I don’t know how far away Canon are in delivering something but they’d hardly be playing waiting and see how Nikon goes at this stage. Maybe if it’s a year away they have time to reengineer. I wonder will they announce any mirrormore full frame cameras soon.
 

takesome1

EOS 5Ds R II
Aug 23, 2013
1,406
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#12
Canon's practice is to let the competition announce first. Maybe they see it as good manners and sportsmanship.

Why is it that it is always a surprise to everyone that they do this?

Every year it seems like the rumor starts Canon will announce something in time for or at Photokina, and it never happens.

Or the year of the Olympics, there is always the anticipation that Canon will announce a new 1D body or big white in time for the Olympics. It never seems to happen.

Now the Rumor is out that there will be 400mm f/2.8 III released. But the Olympics isn't even close!! What bad timing.
 
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scyrene

EOS 6D Mark II
Dec 4, 2013
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#13
I guess Canon is waiting to see what Nikon does - and more importantly how people react to it - > with particular emphasis to how Nikon users react to the news of a new lens mount.
It's unlikely they can change any of their plans for a few months' time based on what happens in the next few weeks. Maybe they could marginally alter the way they market things, or the pricing, but essentially if there is a camera to be released in the near future, every aspect is pretty much finalised already. Additionally, they may well already know a lot more about Nikon's plans than we do - others have stated with authority that all the major companies have a good idea what their rivals are up to (call it industrial espionage or whatever).
 
Jan 26, 2017
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#14
It's unlikely they can change any of their plans for a few months' time based on what happens in the next few weeks. Maybe they could marginally alter the way they market things, or the pricing, but essentially if there is a camera to be released in the near future, every aspect is pretty much finalised already. Additionally, they may well already know a lot more about Nikon's plans than we do - others have stated with authority that all the major companies have a good idea what their rivals are up to (call it industrial espionage or whatever).
Absolutely right that if anything is coming or being announced, then it is largely baked in at this point.

We've heard a lot of rumours of cameras being tested or being in the hands of professionals for a while now. I can't help but wonder if some of the early versions got into professional hands long ago and the reviews were not what Canon was hoping for, resulting in some re-thinking of the approach, or pushing back of timelines to make adjustments where feasible. I mean, what's the point of testing with professionals if their input cannot change the course of development? Any change in course mid-development would certainly really lengthen the timeline for release I would think.
 

Mt Spokane Photography

Spends too much time on this forum
Mar 25, 2011
14,480
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#15
Canon has always seemed to me to wait until the competition has made their announcements. I remember making that same comment on CR many years ago after it first started up. I haven't seen anything to change my mind.

Obviously, any new design was completed over a year ago, about the only possible thing to finalize is a few firmware features that may or may not happen, depending on how well they work.

I expect some sort of sensor optimized for FF mirrorless, we have seen more than one patent that has a potential solution for AF issues on the outer edges of a DPAF sensor, and for light drop off that occurs at the edges for short flange back distances.
 
Dec 2, 2016
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#17
CR2 on When Canon will announce their Full Frame mirrorless
CR4.5 on no matter when Canon announce their Full frame mirrorless it is going to be a disappointment but they will sell them by boat load

It is amazing how lucky Canon is. Despite having crappiest mirrorless cameras and world's worst native mirrorless lens line up they are #1 in mirrorless camera by sales. Look at Fuji's fate despite having kick ass cameras and awesome lenses they were nowhere in a position to be even counted in the percentage market share scale. Obviously Canon's Internet Defense Forces (CIDF) will argue Canon is the market leader, they know everything better than the photographers and there is data to prove. So no need for Canon to innovate for next 10 years. My opinion is unless Canon butt is in fire they will not move and that is not happening at all. No matter how disappointing their products are people still buying in to that.

Here is what I have observed in Canon’ business model and that seems to be working. Come up with a lackluster camera. Overprice it when compared to features offered on similar products from competitors and then sell them by giving huge rebates, free carepak, free grip (wherever applicable) and give away printer and paper for free. In addition to that sell them cheaper through the backdoor round the year (If you don't understand what that is please ignore. I am not going to explain it).

For e.g. Canon priced 6D2 $2000 but last holiday season it was on sale for $1350 post MIR including the below
BG-E21 Grip – Retail price $300
LP-E6N battery pack – Retail price $100
Pixma Pro-100 printer – Retail price $500
SG-201 - Paper 50 sheets – Retail price $100
Disclaimer: All prices are retail prices from Canon USA website. The street price might be lower.
If you add up the retail prices for each item Canon pretty much gave away 6D2 for nothing. Pretty much same deal with 5D4. I understand that is a holiday sale but my point is competitors do not discount products that much. That also gives an idea how much it is costing canon to make them.
Year around 6D2 is available for $1500 if you know where to get. I am not talking about unauthorized dealers. IMO at $1200 to $1500 range 6D2 is worth the price but not at $2000

I am on the camp asking for a camera that goes head on head with competitors’ products in terms of capability and I am even willing pay a 5-10% premium for Canon but Canon does not even wants to compete. Honestly speaking I feel CIDF are correct at least on this one “Canon’s strategy is working” so why bother even competing.
 
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Aug 12, 2018
22
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#18
For e.g. Canon priced 6D2 $2000 but last holiday season it was on sale for $1350 post MIR including the below
BG-E21 Grip – Retail price $300
LP-E6N battery pack – Retail price $100
Pixma Pro-100 printer – Retail price $500
SG-201 - Paper 50 sheets – Retail price $100
The same tactic as electric toothbrush manufacturers use... give away the tooth brush for almost free and then make money on the refills. I would love to see how much money Canon makes on lenses compared to cameras.
 

Mikehit

EOS 5D Mark IV
Jul 28, 2015
3,010
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#19
Come up with a lackluster camera.
I guess it all comes down to your definition of 'lacklustre'.
I have Olympus mirrorless and Panasonic mirrorless as smaller portable versions of my Canon so I know from experience about different menu systems, useability, ergonomics and how those meld into my experience of photography. I am frustrated by the lag in the camera waking up and have missed several 'grab shots' because of the split second it takes for the MILC cameras to wake up, the EVF is difficult for focus tracking a fast moving subject, the reliance on menus instead of buttons I find a pain (yes, I know about quick menus etc...but that does not change my opinion), and the shortfall in AF for what I am most interested in (wildlife and birds in flight). But I like the WYSIWYG viewfinder. I like the compact size (but they are MFT, after all). And there a host of other pros and cons - but when push comes to shove I take my MILCs out as convenient tools, but I look forward to taking photos when I take the DSLR: it is in a different emotional bracket in that respect and I have read a few pros who say quite openly that the Sony for them takes the fun out of photography so it seems I am not alone. Interface to me is just as important as the fact it takes pictures - and it has been widely stated that Sony has proven incompetent at this for years (they are getting there but not yet) and for me it is one of the most basic aspects of a tool but they ignore it as though it does not matter.
I don't rely on photography for a living so all the hype about Sony sensor allowing you screw up an image and still recover it does not mean a lot to me. Nice to have, but not a driver for me to sell everything and move over.

So I do not find the Canons 'lackluster' at all.

Overprice it when compared to features offered on similar products from competitors and then sell them by giving huge rebates,
A poor criticism - name me a manufacturer that does not offer rebates. In fact, Sony have had a recent 10-15% permanent reduction in their prices (in the UK) so it seems that your comment can be turned on Sony as well.

Honestly speaking I feel CIDF are correct at least on this one “Canon’s strategy is working” so why bother even competing.
The thing is, of all those things that sound so wonderful are thing that very few people will ever really use, and fewer still will use regularly. The one issue that keeps coming up is the sensor and that is one area where Canon have only recently caught up with the 5DIV and the differences are now small.
So take the sensor difference as matter of fact. Ignore a lot of the functions that arise from it being mirrorless (focus peaking, magnified view in the VF for manual focussing, WYSIWYG viewfinder), then what functions of the Sony actually make you think 'I would find that really useful in what I do'.
There are many critics of Canon who want them to 'compete at all levels', not because they use the functions they read about but to give them a warm and fuzzy feeling that Canon is dong something.
 
Apr 23, 2018
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#20
Despite having crappiest mirrorless cameras and world's worst native mirrorless lens line up they are #1 in mirrorless camera by sales. Look at Fuji's fate despite having kick ass cameras and awesome lenses they were nowhere in a position to be even counted in the percentage market share scale.
As many regulars here may likely certify, I am no Canapologist Canon Defense League member. :p

BUT: Canon EOS M cameras are definitely NOT "the crappiest mirrorfree APS-C cameras". And Canon EF-M lens lineup is neither, it is near perfect.

In my view Canon is #1 also in mirrorfree APS-C sales because
a) Product lineup is perfectly matched at target groups: new customers coming from smartphones, existing customers looking for a smaller [second] setup than their Canon mirrorslappers. All current EOS M cameras since M5/M6 are largely competitive in features and functionality. Even "entry level" EOS M50 at 500 bucks kicks Sony A6500 in the butt and any Fuji as well in terms of AF.
All EOS M cameras are very compact, light, have decent functionality, decent build quality, good performance and - very important to target group: best-in-class user interface [Sony NEX/A6#### menu system anyone? Sony touch screen implementation? Fuji RAW converter woes?)

b) Pricing of Canon EOS M cameras is acceptable to very good. All affordable, although it could still be less. ;-) And EF-M lens prices are clearly total BARGAIN priced. No other manufacturer has lenses like EF-M 22/2.0 for something like 150 € street or an excellent, dirt cheap 11-22 or a killer 28 Macro lens with built-in LED lighting for close to nothing. Actually I should not mention it here, otherwise Canon may decide to increas eprices on those lenses. Yes, there are tons of mFT shards and tons of OEM and thirdparty Sony E-lenses. but many of them not really worth the money. Fuji lenses ... all fine and dandy, but essentially crop lenses at FF prices. Thats why Fuji's market share is neglibile and will stay there. Only lens missing in Canon EF-M lineup a short, moderately fast tele prime. EF-M 85/2.4 IS STM ... please Canon, thanks!

c) yes, Canon has the good luck of weak competition. Nikon 1 dwarf sensor = barrel burst. Samsung: unfortunately DOA [NX-1 ahead of its time and to expensive for crop]. Sony = occupied with FF, A6#### series and E-mount lenses have not received much love over the last few years. And prices are too high. Fuji: retro styling, yikes. Apparently there are less hipsters around than Fuji thinks. And Fuji wrongfully thinks, they can sell crop gear at FF prices. It ain't so.
 
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