Canon’s roadmap for 2019, included an EOS R camera that no one is expecting? [CR2]

CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D SR
Jan 28, 2015
4,507
2,265
Irving, Texas
I think you might be on to something with the video or cinema R. Perhaps a body with only a medium resolution (eg. 24 megapixel) sensor but is capable of uncropped 4K resolution video which so many folks seem to be yearning for. Unfortunately, I am not one of them.
Yeah, I'm not into video either.
 

degos

EOS RP
Mar 20, 2015
215
137
Could it be because phones offer a vastly better user experience than cameras ?
What?! Touchscreen phones have possibly the worst UX ever released.

Zero discoverability; arcane gestures; hunt and peck grids of app icons; hamburger menus filled with jumbled entries; keyboards unusuable in rain; complete opacity when something doesn't work; unscriptable UI; configuration buried five menus deep; the list goes on. Oh, and the trainwreck that is Bluetooth pairing.

Just think about the actions required to take a photo on a smartphone versus a DSLR.

Anyhow my hope for a head-scratcher would be a modern version of the 1980s EOS M, stripped to the bones as a pure photographic camera. No video, no IBIS, no frills, no modes other than M and bulb.
 
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Pape

EOS 7D MK II
Dec 31, 2018
484
288
I been thinking this unexpected R camera . Sorry if my post is overoptimistic ,i know you like more about doom posts :p
New R is 64mpixel sport camera, with sister sensor of that one 64 what patended earlier but they hided true performance.
Uncropped 4k and 8k video with max 3min record time with 15min cooldown and youtube button when camera plugged to net.
fun for youtubers but not stealing real video camera sales :D
Makes sense why 120mpixel high resolution R got postponed then . No sense release both same time.
Better make peoples buy first 64 mpixel and half year later 120mpixel.
 

SwissFrank

EOS RP
Dec 9, 2018
324
136
OK, half the ideas here are pretty obvious ones, so they're not "head-scratchers."

Others (fixed lens high quality?) simply aren't R system.

So I'm definitely going to go with:

-- infrared (one or two of you mentioned this) (My idea is instead of the RGBG color mask, they could have R G B IR1 R G B IR2 mask. You could shoot color at about double current noise, or single-channel IR (for a B&W result with white foilage) or dual-channel IR for false-color.)

-- astro (one or two of you mentioned this)

-- monochrome (I haven't seen other mentions) (should give 2-3x better resolution, and 1-2 stops less noise)

-- a dedicated videocam with R mount (is this really a head-scratcher?)

-- some weird combination of a big step forward on one front but an apparent step back on another. EG: 4k without crop but far lower res? Far higher dynamic range but far lower res? IBIS but far lower res? Far higher shooting speed but far lower res?
 
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Kit.

EOR R
Apr 25, 2011
1,607
957
I can speak for the tethering ability of my 7D- II. It's a DISASTER. For people who enjoy spinning dials and fumbling through menus it could have been pleasurable but even then half the time it doesn't connect. It's not what I want to do when I am traveling. The Panasonic S1 which I have had for several weeks is worlds better but still requires juggling multiple devices and diving through menus.

In a well thought out device the UX should be clean and free of menu jail. For example if the camera app is running in the background on my phone and my phone is in the vicinity of the camera when it's turned on, a dialog could pop up on my phone asking if I want to connect. If I say yes , the next screen should display all the photos on my card.
Wait... are you saying that your ideal app would annoy me with popups every time I carry a camera with me? And when I try to use it, it throws the hundreds of gigabytes of photos into my face?

That's why I brought up the Apple example. Apple understands User Experience (UX). They know what a user intends to do and they take the user there in the quickest , least cumbersome way.
Apple knows that a big percentage of users needs help with deciding what they intend to do, because they cannot decide that on their own.

But today, these users don't use dedicated cameras, except as a status symbol. Their iPhones are good enough for them.

Better yet would be to skip the phone altogether and to go straight to the app on the camera, if there were one. Camera CEO's complain about phones taking away their business. Perhaps they should be asking why that is the case. Could it be because phones offer a vastly better user experience than cameras ? Like click a photo and share it within seconds.
Nah, unless you want to share unsharp photos or are only shooting wide-angle in bright daylight.

The only two good bits of user experience with phones for taking photos are:
  1. A phone is (almost) always with you anyway.
  2. A phone is (almost) always connected to the network.

The rest is crap.
 

AntlerstoPeaks

I'm New Here
May 25, 2019
10
14
How long from announcement are new cameras usually available? I have a big trip coming up at the end of September and would love to try out the 90d as my backup camera.
 

BillB

EOS 6D MK II
May 11, 2017
1,253
482
OK, half the ideas here are pretty obvious ones, so they're not "head-scratchers."

Others (fixed lens high quality?) simply aren't R system.

So I'm definitely going to go with:

-- infrared (one or two of you mentioned this)

-- astro (one or two of you mentioned this)

-- monochrome (I haven't seen other mentions)

-- a dedicated videocam with R mount (is this really a head-scratcher?)

-- some weird combination of a big step forward on one front but an apparent step back on another. EG: 4k without crop but far lower res? Far higher dynamic range but far lower res? IBIS but far lower res? Far higher shooting speed but far lower res?
A monochrome camera would definitely be a head scratcher for me. At this point an R camera without IBIS and a second card slot would be a head scratcher for me as well. After putting out two models with a single card slot, there are people who will grab anything with two card slots, especially if it has IBIS.
 
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slclick

135L
Dec 17, 2013
3,691
1,377
OK, half the ideas here are pretty obvious ones, so they're not "head-scratchers."

Others (fixed lens high quality?) simply aren't R system.

So I'm definitely going to go with:

-- infrared (one or two of you mentioned this)

-- astro (one or two of you mentioned this)

-- monochrome (I haven't seen other mentions)

-- a dedicated videocam with R mount (is this really a head-scratcher?)

-- some weird combination of a big step forward on one front but an apparent step back on another. EG: 4k without crop but far lower res? Far higher dynamic range but far lower res? IBIS but far lower res? Far higher shooting speed but far lower res?
I'll be happy to see a Canon monochrome. This has me wondering just what an EVF could be like for a b/w camera. IBIS may be nice and a built in ND filter? Could be my next camera since selling a kidney for the Leica M Monochrom isn't on my todo list.
 
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masterpix

EOS 80D
Jun 29, 2016
161
111
It is an interesting times, but unfortunately, also brings a lot of opportunity for changes and shifting brands. If once you had Nikon F mount, you were unlikely to change to Canon EF mount because then you needed to replace your lenses. Many people kept "loyalty" to the brand because they could not afford to change their lenses every now and then. However, now when both Canon and Mikon changing their mount, and the fact the mirrorless design means that there is a lot of extra room to fill between the camera and the lens, there is room for lens-less adapters which allows people to use virtually any lens on the new mirrorless body. People have a unique opportunity to change body brand, and stick to the new mount in the future. This is a time when camera makers need to "hold to their customers" as much as possible, and not try to "move them" away from their brand. Not giving a clear road map, and abandoning a very popular body line is, in my view, not the way to keep your customers.Canon kept producing the EOS-1 for over ten years since the digital era took over (with the 1D), so why "push" their customers to an APS-C R mirrorless?
 

SwissFrank

EOS RP
Dec 9, 2018
324
136
built in ND filter
The sensor they wrote that journal article about a couple months ago detailed how it could be used for super-high dynamic range while maintaining motion blur correctly unlike traditional multiple exposure HDR. Reading between the lines I determined the same sensor would also be capable of any level of ND you wanted. But I think it'd have half the standard resolution, everything else being equal, as in effect it had two photon counters per pixel and could switch between the two.

That to me would totally rate as a "head-scratcher:" a more expensive camera with far lower res and maybe even lower speed, and yet some weird new features like 17-stop exposures. Take a picture of your living room and still read the maker's mark on the light bulb...
 

SwissFrank

EOS RP
Dec 9, 2018
324
136
Not giving a clear road map, and abandoning a very popular body line is, in my view, not the way to keep your customers
Canon had like 25% of the pro market when they switched from FD to EF mount. In about 3-4 years they had 90% of the pro market. And that was a harder move for people because the FD lenses didn't work on the new cameras. In contrast the EF lenses work fine on the R.
 
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CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D SR
Jan 28, 2015
4,507
2,265
Irving, Texas
I'll be happy to see a Canon monochrome. This has me wondering just what an EVF could be like for a b/w camera. IBIS may be nice and a built in ND filter? Could be my next camera since selling a kidney for the Leica M Monochrom isn't on my todo list.
I could go for a dedicated monochrome stills camera.
 

CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D SR
Jan 28, 2015
4,507
2,265
Irving, Texas
It is an interesting times, but unfortunately, also brings a lot of opportunity for changes and shifting brands. If once you had Nikon F mount, you were unlikely to change to Canon EF mount because then you needed to replace your lenses. Many people kept "loyalty" to the brand because they could not afford to change their lenses every now and then. However, now when both Canon and Mikon changing their mount, and the fact the mirrorless design means that there is a lot of extra room to fill between the camera and the lens, there is room for lens-less adapters which allows people to use virtually any lens on the new mirrorless body. People have a unique opportunity to change body brand, and stick to the new mount in the future. This is a time when camera makers need to "hold to their customers" as much as possible, and not try to "move them" away from their brand. Not giving a clear road map, and abandoning a very popular body line is, in my view, not the way to keep your customers.Canon kept producing the EOS-1 for over ten years since the digital era took over (with the 1D), so why "push" their customers to an APS-C R mirrorless?
Let's not forget: The biggest hurdle is attracting new customers to take up ILC cameras (affluent younger people who might have had their interest stimulated via their phones and never heard of FD mount etc.), not so much holding on to people who have already bought in (older people with money who die off everyday or just quit buying due to advanced age). First time adopters to a camera system is what is needed, and that is exactly the group that is shrinking thanks, among other things, to low birth rates compared to the boomers who were sired by the earlier generations. In twenty years it is likely the largest portion of this forum membership will be dead and our gear on the Antiques Road Show as curiosities. Depressing. Mentors needed. ;) It would be very interesting to get an age breakdown of the forum membership here, wouldn't it? Betcha we are all mostly over 40. I'm 56 (1963), so right on the tail end of the baby boom. I've one child. My mother and her mother both had 5. My siblings have: 0, 2, 2, and 4. So we aren't replacing ourselves. ;) The big growth will be in the developing world. Our whole hobby is niche.
 
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st jack photography

..a shuttered lens, backwards viewing backwards..
Troll Rant #428
I am still waiting on the full frame body that had a sexy genius solution that didnt require adapters? Remember that quote? I am mystified ppl are buying the r and rp. Are you that bored or wealthy? Wow. I had mine a week (R) and sent it back. It's junk, a turd. Waiting on the 5dsr m2 at this point, to see how bad they blunder that one, because recent developments since the R dropped indicates that yes, indeed, they will blunder it. And people will lick that dogpuke up.
A head-scratcher? Expect to be wildly underwhelmed. I mean, they just canceled the 7d. How stupid. So what piece of underwhelming non-video capable market-segmented crap will they come out with? Probably a mirrorless lite, with 1fps, using a 5 year old DLSR sensor, yet again, with 3 desired features added BUT 20 crucial mid-level features removed. There will be clear indications of innovative patents with absolutely no follow through on the actual market.
Gosh, I use to be so in love with my 5d, 5dIII, and now my 5DSr and my L lenses, but now I strongly dislike Canon, and I feel betrayed by them, and I feel stuck with a bunch of expensive obsolete lenses. Adapters, my *$$. I may as well get a competitor body and use an adapter of theirs with my L lenses, because Canon seems pretty clueless to me. Mainly I just come on here to 1) troll the fanboys 2) see what other companies are doing, like zeiss zx1, leica q2, fuji MF, panasonic full frame, and 3) hope for a repeat miracle of the 1987 EOS EF innovation that put everyone 20 years behind. What happened to that company, Canon? Bring that company back.
Basically, I want the EOS 1987 of today; if I am going to spend about $40k on a body and full RF lens system, then it better come with a vengeance like the 1987 EOS system, and I JUST DO NOT SEE THEM AS COMPARABLE.
Still, they are no Nikon. I mean, imagine the delusion set you have to carry around to buy into the Z. Wow. And I thought I felt stupid for pre-buying an R. Or imagine seeing the flange diameters of the z and RF and considering the tiny eensy E-mount on the Sony. You would have to combine all 3 brands to cherry-pick a decently-featured stills camera. This is pathetic, considering the cameras cost between $1500 and $5000 or so, depending.
Most of these camera companies are idiots anyway by cramming video and stills together. Why can't people see that when you do this, nobody truly wins?Video guys lose, stills guy loses. (Anytime I ever shot video, I rented a c300 or equivalent at the time. Right tool for the right job.) A stills camera built JUST FOR stills would always be a better camera than these do-it-alls consumers demand today. Yet I have never seen an affordable stills-only camera. (e.g. a still camera that had a blistering 100fps burst of 100mp RAW). How about a camera that shoots a SQUARE or a CIRCLE, thereby using the absolute best part of the lens glass optics instead of an idiotic long rectangle at 3:2 ratio? Why am I such a bad person for wanting these things in a multi-thousand dollar camera?
 

SaP34US

EOS T7i
Aug 21, 2018
97
7
Maybe it's a Mirorless FF with no video features with huge fps for photos to be kitted with both the 35mm 1.8 and the to be released 24-24mm 4.0-6.3 for 2400/w extintion grip or body only w/extintion grip for 1500.
 

archiea

EOS 80D
Jan 17, 2013
161
9
Niche R? Lets see. Whats niche now? The 50 mp high rez 5Ds/r.

Couple that with 3K+ RF “studio” lenses that were released? Plus canon’s commercial and studio customers?

I guess it would be a high rez 50mp R with ibs!

Ibs takes care of the 5Dr/s c high rez cam shake issue.

Eye focus good for studio shoot.

Wifi tethering.

I believe folks think this is unexpected since a 5D level R was expected. Instead of a wedding cam, this will be a studio cam.

A 5D version of an R will need a lot of speed improvement and I believe canon isn’t there yet with raw processing. Look at how the R has to swap features like level turning off in order to do eye focus.

I think a studio level R can be achieved with a refinement of the R: 50mp large dynamic range sensor with IBS, improved Eye detect, dual or multicore processors (like the fuji x-t3), 4 million pixel evf, built in intravelometer.

I think it would help cement the R line with studio and commercial pros and push that high end glass, which is cheaper still than med format!
 
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Refurb7

EOS RP
Feb 13, 2016
253
42
Troll Rant #428
I am still waiting on the full frame body that had a sexy genius solution that didnt require adapters? Remember that quote? I am mystified ppl are buying the r and rp. Are you that bored or wealthy? Wow. I had mine a week (R) and sent it back. It's junk, a turd. Waiting on the 5dsr m2 at this point, to see how bad they blunder that one, because recent developments since the R dropped indicates that yes, indeed, they will blunder it. And people will lick that dogpuke up.
A head-scratcher? Expect to be wildly underwhelmed. I mean, they just canceled the 7d. How stupid. So what piece of underwhelming non-video capable market-segmented crap will they come out with? Probably a mirrorless lite, with 1fps, using a 5 year old DLSR sensor, yet again, with 3 desired features added BUT 20 crucial mid-level features removed. There will be clear indications of innovative patents with absolutely no follow through on the actual market.
Gosh, I use to be so in love with my 5d, 5dIII, and now my 5DSr and my L lenses, but now I strongly dislike Canon, and I feel betrayed by them, and I feel stuck with a bunch of expensive obsolete lenses. Adapters, my *$$. I may as well get a competitor body and use an adapter of theirs with my L lenses, because Canon seems pretty clueless to me. Mainly I just come on here to 1) troll the fanboys 2) see what other companies are doing, like zeiss zx1, leica q2, fuji MF, panasonic full frame, and 3) hope for a repeat miracle of the 1987 EOS EF innovation that put everyone 20 years behind. What happened to that company, Canon? Bring that company back.
Basically, I want the EOS 1987 of today; if I am going to spend about $40k on a body and full RF lens system, then it better come with a vengeance like the 1987 EOS system, and I JUST DO NOT SEE THEM AS COMPARABLE.
Still, they are no Nikon. I mean, imagine the delusion set you have to carry around to buy into the Z. Wow. And I thought I felt stupid for pre-buying an R. Or imagine seeing the flange diameters of the z and RF and considering the tiny eensy E-mount on the Sony. You would have to combine all 3 brands to cherry-pick a decently-featured stills camera. This is pathetic, considering the cameras cost between $1500 and $5000 or so, depending.
Most of these camera companies are idiots anyway by cramming video and stills together. Why can't people see that when you do this, nobody truly wins?Video guys lose, stills guy loses. (Anytime I ever shot video, I rented a c300 or equivalent at the time. Right tool for the right job.) A stills camera built JUST FOR stills would always be a better camera than these do-it-alls consumers demand today. Yet I have never seen an affordable stills-only camera. (e.g. a still camera that had a blistering 100fps burst of 100mp RAW). How about a camera that shoots a SQUARE or a CIRCLE, thereby using the absolute best part of the lens glass optics instead of an idiotic long rectangle at 3:2 ratio? Why am I such a bad person for wanting these things in a multi-thousand dollar camera?
That is appropriately titled as a troll rant. I have no idea what your problems with any cameras are. I did gather, however, you feel that many people are idiots.