Canon #1 in Japanese market share for both DSLR and mirrorless in 2018

tmc784

I love photography
Apr 1, 2018
58
16
#21
I buy Canon camera and lens, because they are made in Japan, (y)I won't spend $2000 more to buy something made in 3rd world places. :rolleyes:
 

docsmith

EOS 6D MK II
Sep 17, 2010
812
127
#22
This must roil Rishi and DPR. I suppose they'll say "the Japanese are misinformed, don't know anything about dynamic range, and they're stuck with a bunch of Canon lenses so they can't change... why don't they just listen to us and buy Sony?!"
Goes to show how much influence the "influencers" really have.
 

Del Paso

M3 Singlestroke
Aug 9, 2018
218
191
#23
Goes to show how much influence the "influencers" really have.
And yet, I'm afraid their influence exists: think of of the number of people getting convinced by the most primitive advertising (washing powders...)
Many customers simply rely on "experts" in their decisions in favor or not of a product. It's so easy to sell specs, and so hard to sell ergonomics or service quality!
 

Diltiazem

Curiosity didn't kill me, yet.
Aug 23, 2014
153
1
#24
How about world market share, unless all the world is Japan!
Nikkei publishes worldwide sales report in July. According to the last report published in July last year, Canon 49.1%, Nikon 24.9%, and Sony 13.3% in ILC (DSLR and Mirrorless combined) market. In the fixed lens market Canon 43.4%, Nikon 25.7%, and Sony 20%. Worldwide Canon dominance is even more overwhelming.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
23,567
623
#25
Nikkei publishes worldwide sales report in July. According to the last report published in July last year, Canon 49.1%, Nikon 24.9%, and Sony 13.3% in ILC (DSLR and Mirrorless combined) market. In the fixed lens market Canon 43.4%, Nikon 25.7%, and Sony 20%. Worldwide Canon dominance is even more overwhelming.
Yeah, but that was before wide availability of the a7III, also known to some as the spec sheet that rocked the world. I’m sure that once sales of that awesomeness are included, those numbers will.....not really change.
 

CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D MK IV
Jan 28, 2015
2,889
471
Irving, Texas
#27
Imagine what they could do if they had Sony sensors. Oh hold on, everyone should buy Canon because of the lenses and the colors, right? Thankfully we have Sony, Fuji and Nikon as competitors so we have some technical innovation, maybe this is the year Canon surprise us with some great cameras. Let's be honest, the 7dII was disappointing, the 5d iv was disappointing compared to the D850, the EOS R is generally thought to be worse than the Z6. I know the Canon cameras are good enough, but we'd alll like to see Canon take a lead for a change.
Hmmmm.... what kind of technical innovation would you like to see from Canon?
 

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,012
231
#29
The Canon sensors are slightly behind, but not by much.
For stills they are behind on one single overblown spec (DR).

I have a screenshot of a RAW file shot in Zion where I put the unedited RAW next to the edited one, in ACR so that the settings were captured as well. Unedited the foreground is black while the clouds in the sky are just starting to clip. Edited the foreground is completely open and the clouds have more detail. I did use some NR but the final file prints 16x24 with no apparent noise in the deepest recovered shadows at that print size.

I used to enjoy uploading it in the middle of DR debates at dpreview. (I think I've posted it here as well.) Why did I enjoy that? Because it was shot on a 7D mark I and it was typically a better real world example of recovery/DR than anything being posted by the Sony/Nikon owning Canon bashers.

It's easy to quote a spec sheet. Sports car owners do it all the time. It's another thing entirely to be able to exploit that spec in the real world.

The best Sony/Nikon sensors are 1ev ahead of the 5D4, and 2-2.5ev ahead of Canon sensors with off-chip ADCs (5Ds/sr; 6D I/II) in DR at base ISO. Note I said "the best" because there are several bodies in the A7 line history with worse DR than a 5D4. (Funny how you won't find DPReview questioning those cameras like they do every Canon camera.)

A 1ev difference is trivial. It basically amounts to a NR slider change in post. Bashing the 5D IV for 'poor dynamic range' would be like setting a 42mp A7r III next to a 45mp D850 and bashing the Sony for 'poor resolution.'

2-2.5ev is not a gap which can be closed in post. If you grossly underexpose an image...if you have a single handheld frame of a HDR scene...it's going to make a discernible difference in final IQ. I thought about that before settling on a 5Ds. But then I remembered that I could count on one hand the times that the DR of a 7D mark I actually, truly failed me (i.e. didn't get the shot). A camera that is roughly 3.5 stops behind the very best.

And half of those were at higher ISOs where a D80x0 would have failed me to.

Sorry for the rant, but I get sick and tired of the "Canon sensors are behind" meme. I'll concede the 4k issue. I'll even concede that Canon has a readout speed issue they need to resolve that probably holds the EOS R frame rate back. (And is probably also the issue with FF 4k.) But in terms of stills IQ they are not behind. We are splitting hairs debating 42/45/50mp or 13.6/14.8 stops of DR.
 
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docsmith

EOS 6D MK II
Sep 17, 2010
812
127
#30
And yet, I'm afraid their influence exists: think of of the number of people getting convinced by the most primitive advertising (washing powders...)
Many customers simply rely on "experts" in their decisions in favor or not of a product. It's so easy to sell specs, and so hard to sell ergonomics or service quality!
So there is influence and their is the range or extent of that influence. We live in the age where a very small number of people doing something can be magnified online and seem significant when really, it is not.

I actually do not want to conclude DPR etc are not significant, in fact, they may be very significant for Sony/Nikon. This is more of an observation. For a good 4-5 years there has been a very steady spec sheet drum beat that favored Sony/Nikon. And as impressed as I am at Sony's current system or the D850. That drum beat does not seem to have moved the needle in terms of overall sales. In fact, the opposite seems to be true. Canon has grown market share of ILCs and mirrorless.
 
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neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
23,567
623
#31
Sorry for the rant, but I get sick and tired of the "Canon sensors are behind" meme.
It’s a difference that seems to primarily concern spec sheet braggarts and measurebators. To flog the deceased equine, Canon sensors have ‘been behind’ since about 2009, and it has had no discernible negative effect on their ILC market share.
 
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docsmith

EOS 6D MK II
Sep 17, 2010
812
127
#32
It basically amounts to a NR slider change in post. Bashing the 5D IV for 'poor dynamic range' would be like setting a 42mp A7r III next to a 45mp D850 and bashing the Sony for 'poor resolution.'
(y) I really like that line as it is so true. Once in a long while, maybe you want those 3 extra megapixels (or 8 compared to the 5Dsr). But vast majority of time???

Then there are the other things that are missed in spec sheets.

In a recent Steve Huff video about the Z 6, he talked about the way images out of different systems had distinctive looks with examples (at ~5:15): Canon (skin tones, more pastel colors), Nikon (gritty, film like, rich colors), and Sony (more digital). That stuff will impact every image and either necessitate more work in post if you want to change it. But, it is subjective and not part of a spec list anywhere.
 

ozturert

I'm New Here
Jan 16, 2019
16
11
#33
Imagine what they could do if they had Sony sensors. Oh hold on, everyone should buy Canon because of the lenses and the colors, right? Thankfully we have Sony, Fuji and Nikon as competitors so we have some technical innovation, maybe this is the year Canon surprise us with some great cameras. Let's be honest, the 7dII was disappointing, the 5d iv was disappointing compared to the D850, the EOS R is generally thought to be worse than the Z6. I know the Canon cameras are good enough, but we'd alll like to see Canon take a lead for a change.
7D II was disappointing? 5D IV was disappointing? Just because the sensors are 1/2 stops behind in DR doesn't mean they are disappointing. I have had 5D IV, D810 and A7 RII at the same time and I preferred 5D IV because it was a more complete package (ergonomy, menus, AF, DR, high-ISO, colours, touch screen, Dual Pixel AF etc..). D850 came 1 year after 5D IV and it is just natural to be better.
And, well, 7D II was the best ASP-C action DSLR when it was released.
 
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ozturert

I'm New Here
Jan 16, 2019
16
11
#34
This must roil Rishi and DPR. I suppose they'll say "the Japanese are misinformed, don't know anything about dynamic range, and they're stuck with a bunch of Canon lenses so they can't change... why don't they just listen to us and buy Sony?!"
Agreed. "ISO invariance", "push shadows by 5 stops" have become like the only thing to make a camera good.
 
Likes: JohanCruyff
Aug 11, 2016
153
28
#35
For stills they are behind on one single overblown spec (DR).

Sorry for the rant, but I get sick and tired of the "Canon sensors are behind" meme. I'll concede the 4k issue. I'll even concede that Canon has a readout speed issue they need to resolve that probably holds the EOS R frame rate back. (And is probably also the issue with FF 4k.) But in terms of stills IQ they are not behind. We are splitting hairs debating 42/45/50mp or 13.6/14.8 stops of DR.
You've just said yourself that you are sick and tired of hearing "Canon sensors are behind." But the reality is that you've even qualified why they are behind in certain areas. In addition, you probably won't stop hearing about this until "Canon sensors are finally ahead." Look, I agree that Canon dominates in market share, as they've decided their target audience doesn't care about that extra 1ev, non ff crop, ibis, readout speeds, or any number of specs that competition has, but that doesn't diminish the fact that the competition has features the equivalent Canon body does not. The minority of us that utilize some of those features are not Sony fanyboy spec sheet chasers. We legitimately utilize some of these spec sheet items that are simply not available in the Canon ecosystem.

The sooner you allow yourself to validate that people like us do exist without trying to minimize those differences of why we choose the competition, the sooner the conversation can be more productive in general as some of us do really understand that Canon is successful and aren't doomed.
 
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Architect1776

Defining the poetics of space through Architecture
Aug 18, 2017
120
84
117
Williamsport, PA
#36
Interesting all the talk about innovation.
The EOS innovation still has not been matched by anyone. Now Canon has added the R to the stable. Again leaving all another 30 years behind. As far as sensors there isn't a whit of real difference and only Nikony fanboys cling to the ISO 100 DXO score as innovation. A real photographer could take a Rebel T1i and produce better work than all the naysayer vloggers combined. There are pixel peepers with no talent except for peeping then there are those who use older equipment and still blow the peepers away.
Yes the latest is fun but how many here can actually out perform their current equipment? None I would dare say.
And yes I do think Sony color Science SOC is horrid.
 

Mt Spokane Photography

I post too Much on Here!!
Mar 25, 2011
15,030
403
#37
But but, Canon is doomed? Sony is taking over.

Who knew Ricoh made DSLRs?


In a recent Steve Huff video about the Z 6, he talked about the way images out of different systems had distinctive looks with examples (at ~5:15): Canon (skin tones, more pastel colors), Nikon (gritty, film like, rich colors), and Sony (more digital). That stuff will impact every image and either necessitate more work in post if you want to change it. But, it is subjective and not part of a spec list anywhere.[/QUOTE]

The outputs are part of the processing software and determined by the preferences of those who created the software and set parameters such as saturation, sharpening, etc. They are not determined by the sensor, but can be influenced by a bayer filter, assuming one is used. So, it should be expected that various people will prefer one over the other. Thats a good thing, some seem to think that they all should meet their preferences, but then there would be no choice.
 

Talys

Canon 6DII
Feb 16, 2017
2,028
293
Vancouver, BC
#38
Interesting all the talk about innovation.
A real photographer could take a Rebel T1i and produce better work than all the naysayer vloggers combined. There are pixel peepers with no talent except for peeping then there are those who use older equipment and still blow the peepers away.
Don't you shoot test patterns with tripods and studio lights at 11fps? I thought that was what all real photographers did. :p

I still like my t2i, which I still use. A good shot from it is just a good shot, and nobody knows or cares what body was used. Frankly, the only reason I don't use it more is that it doesn't use lpe6 batteries.
 

dak723

EOS 6D MK II
Oct 26, 2013
1,141
430
#39
Imagine what they could do if they had Sony sensors. Oh hold on, everyone should buy Canon because of the lenses and the colors, right? Thankfully we have Sony, Fuji and Nikon as competitors so we have some technical innovation, maybe this is the year Canon surprise us with some great cameras. Let's be honest, the 7dII was disappointing, the 5d iv was disappointing compared to the D850, the EOS R is generally thought to be worse than the Z6. I know the Canon cameras are good enough, but we'd alll like to see Canon take a lead for a change.
Funny how so many folks who are "new here" do nothing but repeat the same stereotypical Sony fanboy comments.

Saying "Let's be honest" is a very dishonest way to start expressing what is merely your opinion and not "honesty' at all. Neither the 7d II, the 5d IV were disappointing to the vast majority of buyers and users. And if you want to discuss innovation, exactly where does canon fall short? Is it in taking the lead with a FF camera with a fully articualting screen? How about the only mirrorless camera with a sensor protection curtain? How about a couple of thre R lenses which are not matched by any Sony or Nikon lenses? Best touch screen? The best EVF according to many reviewers? And no one has yet matched the DPAF which is now many years old.
 
Aug 1, 2017
72
16
USA
#40
Why!? Their employer is Amazon, and they are happy with sales, no matter of which brand. However, Canon's success has done nothing to revert the abysmal trend of the camera market (and neither has any other company), so this still remains a pyrrhic victory for them.
Also, it bears repeating: the Japanese market is very special in its preferences. It gravitates strongly towards mirrorless cameras, and entry-level ones at that. It's 100% price-sensitive, unlike the US or Europe, where more expensive mirrorless models have fared better than dirt-cheap shovelware.
It's in the review-site's interest to level the playing field. If there is one dominant and superior player, the smaller players don't really matter, there is no need to have a review site. Seen this many times in other areas - cars, mobile devices, etc. magazine/review sites will favor the underdog over the dominant maker (eg. Toyota, Apple, and yes, Canon). When the playing *seems* level, it makes the review-site more relevant.
 
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Likes: Talys