Canon 60D v. Nikon D7000

[c.d.embrey]

Ah yes, the same list that has the Rebel XSi in place 4... Sorry, but w/o knowing what the criteria for the list positioning are it's totally worthless. Esp. for cameras that are not available.

"Bestsellers in Digital SLRs
Any Category > Electronics > Camera & Photo > Digital Cameras > Digital SLRs (Updated hourly)"

Do you think that the list represents Amazon DSLR Sales??? More sales the higher their position, i.e. #1 represents more sales than #2.

Sales on Amazon show what people are buying from Amazon. Some people buy because of low price and other people buy because of wanted features. The Rebel XSi is in 4th place because people think that it is a good camera for the price.

Did you ever hear of pre-order for cameras not yet released for sale???

"Price: $1,199.00 & this item ships for FREE with Super Saver Shipping. Details
This item has not yet been released.
You may pre-order it now and we will deliver it to you when it arrives.
Ships from and sold by Amazon.com. Gift-wrap available."

 

[papa-razzi]

I purchased an XSi 2 years ago. In just 2 years I have seen the T1i and the T2i come out. Camara bodies evolve quickly - They are just like computers or cell phones. If you really get into it and get hooked like most of us, you will be buying a new camera body before your 4-5 year time frame. Likely in 2 or 3 years. And you will be buying lenses.

Since you are new to DSLR like I was, your first DSLR is a learning tool. I still have my 18-55 kit lens and a 55-250 lens I purchased about 9 months after I bought the XSi. Over the last two years I have also rented a T2i and a few expensive lenses to give them a try. (24-70 f/2.8L, EF-S 17-55 f/2.8, 24-105 f/4L). I now know enough about how I take pictures and what I want in a camera where I am comfortable in spending more money. I plan to buy a 7D shortly.

I take lots of pictures of my kids in indoor sports, in small, poorly lit school gyms. The 7D has great autofocus and fast fps, and decent ISO performance. I also figured out I can do better with very fast lenses if I get primes, like the 85 f/1.8.

If you are doing video, I would get the T2i as a kit with the EF-S 18-135 for $1100 and you should use that lense 90% of the time. Get the EF 50 f/1.8 so you can learn about depth of field and low light photos - it is $100. If you want a telephoto option, add a 55-250 for $250. Finally, get Photoshop Elements. Use all this for a year, have fun and learn. I promise you will not be dissapointed with this, and a year later you can sell the lot and buy something more taylored to how you take pictures - or keep it and build upon it.

 

[Daviii]

It's been a while since Canon has started to create awesome wideangle lenses, at least in a consumer level. Canon excels with 17-55 f2.8 and 15-85 models, which are better than competition.

For the pro market there's no such 14-24 from canon yet which even scratch the nikkor performance, and 24-70 is quite dated, that's obvious though. But if such lenses would appear, if a 14-24 and 24-70 were announced, Canon lens lineup would be wider, better and more complete than nikkon's.

Nevertheless, 15-85 should be quite a dealbreaker for most of the quality minded customers. It's basically the perfect all-around lens for APS-C. Better than nikkon's 16-85.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Nevertheless, 15-85 should be quite a dealbreaker for most of the quality minded customers. It's basically the perfect all-around lens for APS-C. Better than nikkon's 16-85.

Except for that variable (= slow) aperture. A 15-85mm f/4 would be far preferable...sure, it would be more expensive and heavier than the current variable aperture model, but to me it would make more sense - 17-55/2.8 and 15-85/4 for APS-C, analogous to 24-70/2.8 and 24-105/4 for FF.

 

[urkel]

After Pre-ordering a 60D the day it got released, I'm now one of the 60D "haters" after playing with one.

I had a Nikon D90 2 years ago and moved to "sharing" my brothers Canon 7D for much longer than he would like then I was now shopping for one of my own. The 7D was out of my budget so the 60D seemed perfect, but after using one for a few hours then I have to say I'm very disappointed (not to mention sad because I had very high hopes). Here are my PERSONAL opinions and I hope I don't offend anyone with it.

Negatives:
- 9Point autofocus
- New D-Pad instead of the joystick
- Smaller top screen
- Price
- Video Mode is on Control Wheel now (not dedicated button like 7D)
- Video has no manual control (??? 7D was intuitive. We couldn't figure it out w/ 60D since we forgot manual)
- Very plasticky body. Much better than the toy-like rebel feel, but definitely not a tank like the 5D/7D.

Positives:
- Articulating screen. For artistic shots, video should be manually focused whether it has autofocus or not.
- Solid Body. It may not have a "Pro" feel to it, but if this is the new low end then it feels better than the Rebels

So there you go. I really wanted to like the 60D and even have my preorder still in effect (backordered) but most likely I'm cancelling it, selling my lenses and switching back to Nikon. The D7000 isn't my perfect camera either (no articulating screen, 60fps, GPS) but in terms of value it's great so I wont feel horrible about switching... unless Canon comes out with a micro four-thirds first and makes me question whether selling my lenses was a bad move.

 

[Edwin Herdman]

Here are my PERSONAL opinions and I hope I don't offend anyone with it.

I hope not too...but looking at your list, are those points in comparison to the 7D, or do some of them apply to the D7000?

- 9Point autofocus

How did this affect your shooting?

- Price

Compared to the D7000 many people have this same problem. Compared to the 7D, it stacks up nicely enough.

- Video Mode is on Control Wheel now (not dedicated button like 7D)

Same as the Rebels. What's troubling me is the talk about needing to press a button to change a mode...who needed that?

- Video has no manual control (??? 7D was intuitive. We couldn't figure it out w/ 60D since we forgot manual)

I've read that there is manual control for the video, but I haven't seen it explained in-depth. I would agree it's a point in favor of the 7D that manual control is intuitive.

 

[unexposure]

- Video has no manual control (??? 7D was intuitive. We couldn't figure it out w/ 60D since we forgot manual)

First Menu to the left, First entry. "Manual Exposure". Shouldn't be too hard to find out, even if you don't have a manual...

 

[Mark D5 TEAM II]

Heck, with a 2 grand budget just buy the cheapest body you can tolerate and spend the rest on lenses. No use wasting a $1700 body with a $300 POS lens.

 

[Mark D5 TEAM II]

BTW, as of this hour, that Amazon bestseller list shows the T1i/500D on the top spot . 6 of the Top 10 are Canons, two of which are 7Ds (1 body only, 1 w/ the 28-135 zoom).

 

[Edwin Herdman]

Is dat 7Ds the new high-resolution 7D from the split line we've all been waiting for? Cool.

T1i on top, well, maybe if they're selling at $450 like on eBay (used, as I've been seeing) I could believe it! It's really more like $699 for the kit, isn't it?

 

[Mark D5 TEAM II]

7Ds plural of 7D, as in two entries for the 7D, as you would have understood if you read the part in "()". And, no, the T1i/500D costs $678.89 new, $579.99 used.

 

[Osiris30]

After Pre-ordering a 60D the day it got released, I'm now one of the 60D "haters" after playing with one.

I had a Nikon D90 2 years ago and moved to "sharing" my brothers Canon 7D for much longer than he would like then I was now shopping for one of my own. The 7D was out of my budget so the 60D seemed perfect, but after using one for a few hours then I have to say I'm very disappointed (not to mention sad because I had very high hopes). Here are my PERSONAL opinions and I hope I don't offend anyone with it.

Negatives:
- 9Point autofocus

What do you shoot? Given the spread of those 9 cross-type sensors I haven't found a need for more. Unless you're shooting sports or birds in flight it's fine. If you *are* shoot sports or birds in flight there is *one* choice for a Canon APS-C body and it's called the 7D and has been available forever.

- New D-Pad instead of the joystick

I thought the same, until I used it for about 2 days, and then my body relearned the new layout. Now I find it's easier than the joystick on other xx/xDs.

- Smaller top screen

That's enough to make you jump brands? It's big enough to see everything you need if your eye sight is good enough to be using a camera in the first place. The button placement on the top is also streamlined and lines up with the LCD. Good move.

- Price

So don't order it the day it comes out... Wait a couple of months for the Thanksgiving/Christmas discount.

- Video Mode is on Control Wheel now (not dedicated button like 7D)

A pain if you're mess with video, but a non-starter if you doing real video work with the camera.

- Video has no manual control (??? 7D was intuitive. We couldn't figure it out w/ 60D since we forgot manual)

You didn't look very hard then, it's all there. Just like the 7D.

- Very plasticky body. Much better than the toy-like rebel feel, but definitely not a tank like the 5D/7D.

Maybe.. maybe not. The new grip is better IMHO and the body is well balanced. I can also tell you it's pretty robust, mine has been abused a few times *already* (I'm mean to my gear LOL)

Positives:
- Articulating screen. For artistic shots, video should be manually focused whether it has autofocus or not.

Video should always be MFed if you aren't shooting your kids birthday It's also nice it flips around and protects the screen.

- Solid Body. It may not have a "Pro" feel to it, but if this is the new low end then it feels better than the Rebels

The T2i is the new low end (well technically the T1i is).

So there you go. I really wanted to like the 60D and even have my preorder still in effect (backordered) but most likely I'm cancelling it, selling my lenses and switching back to Nikon. The D7000 isn't my perfect camera either (no articulating screen, 60fps, GPS) but in terms of value it's great so I wont feel horrible about switching... unless Canon comes out with a micro four-thirds first and makes me question whether selling my lenses was a bad move.

The D7000 also hasn't been reviewed yet and the IQ in more than a few sample shots looks a bit dodgy. And Canon won't do m4/3. Not sure why you would a smaller sensor anyway. Smaller sensor = more issues with IQ. How long did you spend with the 60D before deciding you didn't like it. It sounds like it wasn't very long at all. Use one for a day or two and (again unless you shoot sports or BIF) and I think 90% of your gripes will become non-issues.

Osiris

 

[urkel]

Here are my PERSONAL opinions and I hope I don't offend anyone with it.

I hope not too...but looking at your list, are those points in comparison to the 7D, or do some of them apply to the D7000?

Oh, im just griping about everything. This is part of the decision process for me.

Anyway, it looks like I may be sticking with Canon for another more generation. As much as I'm "willing" to switch, after doing the math on what it will cost to get me the equivalent Nikon setup then I'll stick with my more affordable Canon lenses.


Nikon 24-70 f2.8 - $1700 new / $1500 used
Nikon 50mm f1.4 - $425 new / $375 used
Nikon NB600 - $215 new

Since I'm more of a poser than a Pro then I'm just going to stick with the lenses I got and get a 60D. It's not perfect, but an articulating screen on a DSLR is something that I feel may be underhyped.

BTW. One thing to note about the 60D's shortcomings is that several of these "missing features" are firmware fixable. So as much as people hate complainers, whining does serve a purpose here because 60D vs D7000 comparisons can swing back to Canon's favor if they unlock some of the stuff they intentionally crippled.

EDIT:
Got to check out the 60D again at Best Buy and found two nice things that I missed.
1) As someone stated earlier, manual control in Video is just a menu click away
2) ISO limiting like on Canon. It's something I loved about Nikon and was missing on the 7D. But here it is.

 

[DarStone]

This is an interesting post with a lot of varying opinions, but I'd say you should really try both camera's hands on before making a choice. If you purely go by spec's the new Nikon might seem like the clear winner, but feature don't always make for a great product.

I admit I was a bit disappointed with the announced spec's of the 60D, but I have invested in canon for a few years now (meaning I have lenses and such) so I thought I'd give the 60D a try. I recieved it this Wednesday and I have to say it's a really nice camera, it's solidly built even though it's not like my 7D it's not a Rebel either. The Camera is very well balanced even with heavy lenses, and feels really good in hand. It's also a very accurate camera, I shot a wedding with it yesterday and must say I'm really impressed with the way it handled and the pictures I got even in lowlight. It seems like Canon tweaked the AF system from the 40D and 50D I've shot both and the 60D is a lot better, it's actually pretty close to the 7D, and maybe a little brighter.

Anyway as I said earlier the only real way to know which one is right for you is to go play with them both, and what ever you decide you'll have a great camera and a real upgrade from your S3

 

[paeataa]

This is an interesting post with a lot of varying opinions, but I'd say you should really try both camera's hands on before making a choice. If you purely go by spec's the new Nikon might seem like the clear winner, but feature don't always make for a great product.

I admit I was a bit disappointed with the announced spec's of the 60D, but I have invested in canon for a few years now (meaning I have lenses and such) so I thought I'd give the 60D a try. I recieved it this Wednesday and I have to say it's a really nice camera, it's solidly built even though it's not like my 7D it's not a Rebel either. The Camera is very well balanced even with heavy lenses, and feels really good in hand. It's also a very accurate camera, I shot a wedding with it yesterday and must say I'm really impressed with the way it handled and the pictures I got even in lowlight. It seems like Canon tweaked the AF system from the 40D and 50D I've shot both and the 60D is a lot better, it's actually pretty close to the 7D, and maybe a little brighter.

Anyway as I said earlier the only real way to know which one is right for you is to go play with them both, and what ever you decide you'll have a great camera and a real upgrade from your S3

Thanks! That's what I planned to do too. I'm waiting until both 60D and D7000 are available at camera shops so that I can try them out.

Would you be willing to share some photos taken with your 60D with us to see how the camera produces?

 

[DarStone]

Okay here is a link to some quick reference shots taken with the 60D, nothing special I usually shoot leaves and ropes to get an idea of AF Accuracy and Clarity, plus I shot these with a Nifty Fifty 50mm 1.8 Canon Lens, and a Sigma 50-200mm HSM OS lens ($159.00 retail) to give you an idea of what options you might start off with.

http://picasaweb.google.com/dbharris3/Canon60DQuickReferenceShots#

 

[StepBack]

I'm not going to repeat the objections. But I will add that Canon is putting to rest the DIGIC 4. So for new buyers to this level of camera it may not be so important whether which camera has more AF points or which is qualitatively better based on specs alone. What Canon may be doing is saying to present midrange owners that the next gen of FF and prosumers will have a new processor. And that's where the difference comes in. The AF, metering and chip are what makes the thing go. You don't go anywhere w/o the engine. And no one is able to scientifically compare the chips because they don't have the equipment. The test shots I've seen are just for arguments sake. The argument is moot.

 

[urkel]

The AF, metering and chip are what makes the thing go. You don't go anywhere w/o the engine. And no one is able to scientifically compare the chips because they don't have the equipment. The test shots I've seen are just for arguments sake. The argument is moot.

And whats the argument?

 

[anthony11]

Oh, im just griping about everything. This is part of the decision process for me.

Been there, still doing that

Anyway, it looks like I may be sticking with Canon for another more generation. As much as I'm "willing" to switch, after doing the math on what it will cost to get me the equivalent Nikon setup then I'll stick with my more affordable Canon lenses.
Nikon 24-70 f2.8 - $1700 new / $1500 used
Nikon 50mm f1.4 - $425 new / $375 used

Hrrm, $350-ish (21%) more for the 24-70, $75 more for the 50. Annoying, but adding up the percentage difference of a whole setup, I'm not so sure that the gap is a gating factor any more. Before Canon's 20% yen/dollar markup it was bigger.

BTW. One thing to note about the 60D's shortcomings is that several of these "missing features" are firmware fixable. So as much as people hate complainers, whining does serve a purpose here because 60D vs D7000 comparisons can swing back to Canon's favor if they unlock some of the stuff they intentionally crippled.

In theory, yeah, but yet the 5D2 still lacks a wider EC range than +/- 2 stops, lacks 5-exposure bracketing, lacks aperture bracketing. Those are all straightforward to code, yet Canon can't be bothered.

 

[neuroanatomist]

You can't just "add" +/-1 EV because things like the LCD screen on top and electronic display inside the viewfinder have +2..-2 hard coded into the device.

True. But that wouldn't stop them from a firmware change to add my favorite new feature that's present in the T2i and 60D (and even in my PowerShot S95!), but not in the 7D...the ability to specify a maximum for Auto ISO.