Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4

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alipaulphotography said:
Depth of field at 1.2 and even 1.4 is paper thin if doing a head & shoulders portrait. I wouldn't rely on the autofocus that much in those situations and manual focus for the eyes. Even recomposing slightly will move the focus right off.

I wouldn't want depth of field any thinner than my sigma 1.4. Bokeh is dreamy gorgeous.

I'm doing some fairly deep water speculation here, since my shallow DoF photography experience is not as good as landscape photography (which is my main interest). Anyway - with my limited experience so far it seems to me that the difference between f/1.2 and say f/2.0 concerning focus placement is not big at all - in both cases you need to nail right it within say 5mm. The thing is that already at f/2 the DoF is short enough for you to see on exactly where in the face the focal plane sits so you already have the problem, and it does not get much worse at f/1.2. Am I right or wrong about this? Someone more experienced could comment.

Concerning focus-and-recompose, I've done some calculations and the only time you get issues is when you change your angle really much, which typically only occurs with a wide angle lens. Head-and-shoulder portraits is no problem, with a typical 85mm headshot you change the distance with ~1.6mm by recomposing. The longer tele lens you have the less of an angle is (typically) required to recompose and the lesser is the problem. I don't think 85mm in typical use will have much of this problem.

Still, Hasselblad has a feature for this, "True Focus", so the problem exists in some conditions, here's an illustration I found on the web:
http://akelstudio.s3.amazonaws.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/true_focus_illust.png
it shows the angle of view of a 24mm lens though, and in that particular example the focal plane will move about 130mm.

So far I have shot short DoF with 70-200/2.8 and 50/1.4 using autofocus central point only and I'm quite pleased with the hit rate, so I think autofocus and recomposing will work.
 
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branden

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torger said:
Look at the girl at the fence in this review:
http://www.thedigitalpicture.com/Reviews/Sigma-85mm-f-1.4-EX-DG-HSM-Lens-Review.aspx
and compare f/1.4 - f/1.8, look at the fence behind the girl.

For Sigma f/1.4 to f/1.8 the "out of focus look" is almost the same, just with different vignetting. For Canon f/1.2 and f/1.4 are rather similar, but there are much clearer differences in out of focus look f/1.2 - f/1.8. f/1.4 on Sigma looks similar to f/2.0 on the Canon, that is the Canon can give much more of the desired buttery background. Sigma's bokeh is nice, it is not just as smeared as the Canon.
Keep in mind, that that specific example is not a fair test of out-of-focus blur, since the repeating pattern of the fence is creating constructive interference as the out-of-focus blur of each fence post overlaps that of the neighboring posts. You can see this factor come into play between the f/2.8 and f/2 photos, as the fence appears blurrier at f/2.8, since at f/2 the constructive interference is affecting the bokeh quality.

The bokeh comparison further down the page will give a more straightforward comparison.
 
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thepancakeman

If at first you don't succeed, don't try skydiving
Aug 18, 2011
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neuroanatomist said:
Nice image, which also happens to show the bane of the 85L - longitudinal CA.

It does? Great!...what is it? ???

In other words, looking at the picture can you describe what longitudinal CA looks like for those of us who don't know what that is?
 
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thepancakeman said:
neuroanatomist said:
Nice image, which also happens to show the bane of the 85L - longitudinal CA.

It does? Great!...what is it? ???

In other words, looking at the picture can you describe what longitudinal CA looks like for those of us who don't know what that is?

It is magenta cast in the out of focus blur, particularly visible at large apertures, like this, at f/1.2:
http://www.photozone.de/images/8Reviews/lenses/canon_85_12_5d/loca_f12.jpg

all lenses have it though, more or less.
 
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I just had to weigh in on this conversation as I shoot most of my portraits using the Canon 85 1.2L on the 5d MKII. I LOVE the lens and the bokeh is just simple gorgeous. The razor thin DOF at 1.2 is something to master. Women are the main subjects I use wide open at 1.2. There's just the dreaminess that goes with shooting at that aperture.

When I first bought the lens, I didn't realize how thin the DOF was going to be until I seriously used it for some shoots. I would get as close up to the face as I could so I would get noses in focus but not the eyes but I was aiming for the eye, shifted a bit most likely. Now I work pretty well with it after using it for over a year. Just wanted to share some clear examples of it. I can't say how well the Sigma is as I haven't used it before but until the 85 III comes out, I wouldn't trade this slow, big, beautiful baby.

PS. definitely not for action as focus is too slow, its more of a portrait lens but the low light capability is astonishing. For film/video, I stick with the Nikkor AI-s 85mm 1.4 for manual aperture ring and easier manual focusing.

http://dawen.smugmug.com/Cosplay-Photography/Saber/i-sLtTxnm/0/XL/IMG6659-XL.jpg
http://dawen.smugmug.com/Cosplay-Photography/Saber/i-CzBMwZZ/0/XL/IMG6646-XL.jpg
http://dawen.smugmug.com/Cosplay-Photography/Leigh-Anne-Brittany/i-drLgCx6/0/XL/IMG6564-XL.jpg
http://dawen.smugmug.com/Cosplay-Photography/Leigh-Anne-Brittany/i-rq9LK7r/0/XL/IMG6548-XL.jpg
http://dawen.smugmug.com/Events/Conceal-Her-Rehearsal/i-Lpsjm2h/1/XL/IMG6381-XL.jpg
http://dawen.smugmug.com/Events/Conceal-Her-Rehearsal/i-zm5ndPF/1/XL/IMG6349-XL.jpg
http://dawen.smugmug.com/Portraits/Johnny-Wu-Soho-Suit/i-H95Rfq4/1/XL/IMG7316-2-Edit-XL.jpg

-DW
Canon 5d Mark II
Canon 7d
Canon 30d
Canon 24-105mm 4L IS
Canon 50mm 1.8 II
Canon 85mm 1.2L II IS
Canon 70-200 2.8L II IS
Sigma 28mm 1.8
Nikkor AI-s 20mm 2.8
Nikkor AI-s 50mm 1.2
Nikkor AI-s 85mm 1.4
 
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branden said:
[Keep in mind, that that specific example is not a fair test of out-of-focus blur, since the repeating pattern of the fence is creating constructive interference as the out-of-focus blur of each fence post overlaps that of the neighboring posts. You can see this factor come into play between the f/2.8 and f/2 photos, as the fence appears blurrier at f/2.8, since at f/2 the constructive interference is affecting the bokeh quality.

The bokeh comparison further down the page will give a more straightforward comparison.

I think the f/1.2 - f/1.8 range is most interesting. You can look at the tree in the background instead.

For f/2 and up there are cheaper alternatives. The test further down the page show f/5.6, and there Canon 85/1.8 is a great lens too.

I don't think Sigma is bad, but if I buy a lens primarily for shallow DoF it seems like the canon has an edge, even at f/1.4
 
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willrobb

Guest
DW said:
I just had to weigh in on this conversation as I shoot most of my portraits using the Canon 85 1.2L on the 5d MKII. I LOVE the lens and the bokeh is just simple gorgeous. The razor thin DOF at 1.2 is something to master. Women are the main subjects I use wide open at 1.2. There's just the dreaminess that goes with shooting at that aperture.

When I first bought the lens, I didn't realize how thin the DOF was going to be until I seriously used it for some shoots. I would get as close up to the face as I could so I would get noses in focus but not the eyes but I was aiming for the eye, shifted a bit most likely. Now I work pretty well with it after using it for over a year. Just wanted to share some clear examples of it. I can't say how well the Sigma is as I haven't used it before but until the 85 III comes out, I wouldn't trade this slow, big, beautiful baby.

PS. definitely not for action as focus is too slow, its more of a portrait lens but the low light capability is astonishing. For film/video, I stick with the Nikkor AI-s 85mm 1.4 for manual aperture ring and easier manual focusing.

http://dawen.smugmug.com/Cosplay-Photography/Saber/i-sLtTxnm/0/XL/IMG6659-XL.jpg
http://dawen.smugmug.com/Cosplay-Photography/Saber/i-CzBMwZZ/0/XL/IMG6646-XL.jpg
http://dawen.smugmug.com/Cosplay-Photography/Leigh-Anne-Brittany/i-drLgCx6/0/XL/IMG6564-XL.jpg
http://dawen.smugmug.com/Cosplay-Photography/Leigh-Anne-Brittany/i-rq9LK7r/0/XL/IMG6548-XL.jpg
http://dawen.smugmug.com/Events/Conceal-Her-Rehearsal/i-Lpsjm2h/1/XL/IMG6381-XL.jpg
http://dawen.smugmug.com/Events/Conceal-Her-Rehearsal/i-zm5ndPF/1/XL/IMG6349-XL.jpg
http://dawen.smugmug.com/Portraits/Johnny-Wu-Soho-Suit/i-H95Rfq4/1/XL/IMG7316-2-Edit-XL.jpg

-DW
Canon 5d Mark II
Canon 7d
Canon 30d
Canon 24-105mm 4L IS
Canon 50mm 1.8 II
Canon 85mm 1.2L II IS
Canon 70-200 2.8L II IS
Sigma 28mm 1.8
Nikkor AI-s 20mm 2.8
Nikkor AI-s 50mm 1.2
Nikkor AI-s 85mm 1.4

Some brilliant shots there, really beautiful portraits.

I think you have summed up the canon 85mm f1.2LII with your photos and your comments about the AF not being for action shots. Your shots show just how good this lens is, when it hits the mark other lenses don't come close, but it's not one for fast moving action. There the Sigma f1.4 or even the canon 85mm f1.8 probably wins.

I guess it's a matter of what someone will be shooting that dictates Whig lens to buy.
 
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willrobb

Guest
Went to my usual lens store for a final play with the Sigma 85 and the canon 85mm 1.2LII. Part of me hoped I would get a Sigma with a wonky AF and the canon would be spot on, the lure of another red ring was calling me....but for the third time in a row I was pretty impressed with the Sigma AF and build quality....and price (hard to see much IQ difference when doing test shots in a store). So, I bought the Sigma, spent more of the left over money on my wife's Christmas and I think I've ensured household festive harmony for another year. Result.

Haven't used the Sigma for work yet, maybe use it next week venue permitting, but from a few test snaps on the street I am thinking I got a good deal with the Sigma.
 
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Enrico

Guest
I have been reading up o these lenses til my eyes were bleeding...

Went to the store today and tried them both on my 5D2. The siggy has quicker AF, yes. The Canon has better bokeh and much better build.

However, I have read tons on complaints about the canon being slow... I have just realized it is as with all other things in life, it is relative - relative to what you compare it with... For me coming from a rebel with 50/1.8 it the canon 85/1.2 actually feels quick... and when it comes to portraits of a child moving its head it is ok. For sure it is slow going from 1.5 m to 10 m... but hey... that's not what these 85's are for, at least not for me. I could easily follow focus on my sons eyes when in the bathtub an hour ago.

My summary was that the siggy will give really good pictures for a decent price. The canon is twice as expensive, but it will for sure add more dreamy bokeh and pop, then whether that's worth double the siggy price or not that is up to you to decide.

I had the money saved so I went for the Canon and I am not regretting it (as I am sure I would if I have gone with the siggy, since there is one beats that is better... not perhaps better per dollar... but simple just better...)
 
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good decision! get the lens that works for your purpose :D, I'm sure you will get amazing shots with it

the canon f1.2 is such a work of art i had a hard time deciding to go with the siggy instead but my primary use was going to be for weddings and I just knew the AF speed wouldn't keep up. as you say the f1.2 is quite quick as long as you arent jumping between distances, as soon as you do that though it falls over. still so far very happy with the sigma, it being smaller and lighter is also a nice side benefit.
 
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Jul 21, 2010
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briansquibb said:
If the AF isn't fast enough then an old school shooter would use the focus ring - it is a mighty quick way to get it close, and then let the AF do the final adjustment.

Except that in this case, that wouldn't help the old school shooter at all. When you rotate the focus ring of the 85L, it activates actuators which cause the ring USM motor to move the focusing elements. So, MF is no faster than AF with the 85L. Another consequence of that is the lens requires power to focus - if you want to store the lens with the front element retracted, you need to do that with the lens mounted and the camera on. A bit annoying, but it becomes a habit.
 
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