Canon announcements coming at the end of August [CR2]

PVCC

Arts & Engineering
Jul 5, 2019
71
16
Sadly, my expectations that Canon could release a EF 24-70 2.8L IS USM lens have dropped to almost none... There were rumors posted here months ago indeed. I do hope I'm wrong!

What a pitty.
Most other brands offer 24-70 2.8 with Image Stabilization...

I.S. is always a very helpful feature, even at wide angle

If I could get a 3rd party 24-70 2.8 lens to be enabled for the Lens Correction features (Chromatic & Peripheral aberration, Diffraction correction, etc) on my 5D4 I would buy it.

But I could only do it with a specific 17-35 Tamron lens, which the camera recognized as a Canon. Obviously the corrections weren't so good as with Canon lens, but very helpful anyway, especially since I work mainly with .JPGs (and for video are even more important!)

I wonder how much the RF 24-70 2.8L IS lens will cost..

:((((
 
  • Like
Reactions: Michael Clark

sfericean

EOS R
Sep 2, 2018
14
15
Bellflower, CA
www.youtube.com
Even if you accepted that sort of fantasy land logic, you'd still have to conclude that Canon hasn't thought this through. Canon apparently would rather lose those Cx00 sales to cameras from Sony, Panasonic, Fuji, etc. instead. Only in Canon land is making no money from a buyer preferable to making some money from them.
Totally agree.

Here’s the crazy thing that I’ve often wondered about. I’m a dual shooter video first and then photo (I love photo I’m just not the best at it, yet). I take my camera (currently the EOS R) to all sorts of places. Just a few weeks ago I took it to 11.5k ft. I hiked up a flippin mountain with it on a peak design capture clip. NEVER ONCE did I say to myself “you know what would make my YT videos better on the side of this mountain? An even bigger cinema camera.”

I would venture to say that no one wanting to shoot video whether on the side of a mountain or at a child’s birthday party or at a friends wedding or vlogging or really anything other than shooting a legitimate movie with actors and sets and crew etc., have ever longed for an even more bulky and “hey look at me, I’ve got a cinema camera” setup.

I just don’t get why canon would ever think that when presented with a camera that can do all in a smaller package, would I as a consumer (I have no empirical data to cite rather than what seems logical; there are more consumers than movie directors) choose to go to their cinema line over something like an EOS R or 90D. As a consumer the protectionism seems illogical as the cinema line is not even in my purchasing thought process. Even remotely.

I guess having a C100/200 (whatever) would be badass, but I’m not lugging that thing up a mountain or bringing it to my daughter’s birthday party, etc. Just saying.
 
Last edited:

PVCC

Arts & Engineering
Jul 5, 2019
71
16
And then doing what with it? Transferring it directly to film so you can project it?

Do people using consumer-grade still cameras actually do that?
Well, not many people, but some do shoot at 24p for filming, yes.

Actually, some movies (not many, but some in part or completely) were shot on DSLRs thanks to that capability.

I do miss the 24p in the GX7 III (on which I'm so interested).

Again as someone said, if you don't cannibalize your products, someone else will do.

EOS Cinema Cxxx are everyday more expensive features/price wise than other options. But Canon Product Managers are like stone mind.

Time will show that Canon will loose market share. Brand's reputation is not enough to keep king sales position.
 

stevelee

FT-QL
Jul 6, 2017
1,249
281
Davidson, NC
:unsure: Is this is a serious question? How about watch it on a TV like you would any other p24 content... You know, like you do with Blu-ray, UHD Blu-ray, pretty much any scripted TV show, etc. that are all produced at p24.
Of course it is a serious question. I'm still trying to figure out your point.
 

unfocused

EOS 5D SR
Jul 20, 2010
4,988
1,343
66
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
Apparently you missed the release of the Canon EOS R, which is a Pro/Prosumer camera.
I've been shooting with the R at work for the past month just getting used to it before my busy season starts. Today, I took it out for some personal shooting. Wanted to see how this camera that gets so much disrespect on this forum does with birds in flight. Not much to shoot today, but some pelicans. The R nailed the focus using a third-party lens. (Shot with the Sigma 150-600 Contemporary.)
185758
 

Stereodude

EOS 80D
Jul 8, 2019
149
130
Of course it is a serious question. I'm still trying to figure out your point.
If you can't understand why people want to be able to shoot video in p24 then perhaps it is best to stay out of the conversation instead of just blindly jumping in to defending Canon.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PGSanta

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,609
2,071
If you can't understand why people want to be able to shoot video in p24 then perhaps it is best to stay out of the conversation instead of just blindly jumping in to defending Canon.
Condescension > explanation. Kinda makes you look like an ass, but maybe that’s the look you were going for.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,609
2,071
Time will show that Canon will loose market share. Brand's reputation is not enough to keep king sales position.
Will it, though?

People here have been saying that for a decade, it hasn’t happened yet. But even a broken analog clock shows the correct time twice a day – that’s an accuracy of 0.14%. So if you and others keep on predicting it, maybe one of you will be right some day.
 

unfocused

EOS 5D SR
Jul 20, 2010
4,988
1,343
66
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
Will it, though?

People here have been saying that for a decade, it hasn’t happened yet. But even a broken analog clock shows the correct time twice a day – that’s an accuracy of 0.14%. So if you and others keep on predicting it, maybe one of you will be right some day.
You misread his post. He didn't say Canon would lose market share. He said they would loose market share. I think he means they will let loose with a huge increase in market share.
 

Stereodude

EOS 80D
Jul 8, 2019
149
130
Condescension > explanation. Kinda makes you look like an ass, but maybe that’s the look you were going for.
Drawing from your vast experience being one as a point of comparison no doubt.

Edit:
People want to shoot p24. His presumption that the only use for p24 is to output it to film is bizarre. My point is abundantly clear. People want p24 and Canon won't provide it to "protect" their cinema cameras from even their own 1" sensor P&S cameras. Just because he doesn't realize what can be done with p24 content and where it's used doesn't invalidate the point.

Every camera reviewer should be loudly and proudly ridiculing Canon from the rooftops for such crippling rather than sucking up so they don't lose their Canon paid vacations and free gear. We'd get a firmware update adding the feature in a week if every established reviewer and influencer prominently took them to task and encouraged buyers to not buy their artificially crippled cameras.
 
Last edited:
  • Angry
  • Like
Reactions: PGSanta and slclick

stevelee

FT-QL
Jul 6, 2017
1,249
281
Davidson, NC
If you can't understand why people want to be able to shoot video in p24 then perhaps it is best to stay out of the conversation instead of just blindly jumping in to defending Canon.
Perhaps you are right. If I can’t understand why someone wants to do something , it is stupid for me to ask them why they want to do it.
 
  • Sad
Reactions: Quirkz

Stereodude

EOS 80D
Jul 8, 2019
149
130
Perhaps you are right. If I can’t understand why someone wants to do something , it is stupid for me to ask them why they want to do it.
Most professionally produced scripted primetime content is p24. Virtually all movies are p24. p24 is the standard. You seem to be unaware of this. People want to emulate what they see. This is why all of Canon's competitors offer p24 capability in their cameras. Their potential customers want it and they offer it. Canon's potential customers want it, but Canon only sees lost Cx00 sales.
 

stevelee

FT-QL
Jul 6, 2017
1,249
281
Davidson, NC
Most professionally produced scripted primetime content is p24. Virtually all movies are p24. p24 is the standard. You seem to be unaware of this. People want to emulate what they see. This is why all of Canon's competitors offer p24 capability in their cameras. Their potential customers want it and they offer it. Canon's potential customers want it, but Canon only sees lost Cx00 sales.
Thanks for the straight answer, unworthy of one though I am. I am aware that movies have been shot at 24fps for a long time. The standard for silents was 16fps, but really depended upon how fast the cameraman cranked. I guess for a real cinematic look you would use repeated frames at 48fps in both cases.

Apparently Canon believes that this is not a huge factor in deciding whether to buy a G7X, and I doubt they worry about it taking away from Cx00 sales.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
990
484
Yeahhhh.... I don’t get this position. The youngsters are adopting Sony because Sony is offering functionality at a value, not because they are looking at MTF charts. Sony has some of the fastest cameras out, and the best overall AF period.

I love Canon. I just bought the EOS R a second time instead of jumping ship, but Sony isn’t just flash... they are offering the FAR better mirrorless product RIGHT NOW. The youngsters don’t have ANY brand loyalty (for the most part), they are going for what’s perceived as the “best”right now. I don’t blame them, I get it; I hope I’m not the sucker that stuck it out with Kod... I mean Canon while the industry got pushed forward by an innovator.

Obviously I placed my bet on Canon, even though I think the R is a bit of a clunker, I believe that in the long run Canon will catch up with their tech, and offer what Sony has been unable to... soul.
You are equating spec sheet items with "functionality" but not including durability, the ability to continue working under extremely adverse environmental conditions, and just working the way it should out of the box as part of "functionality" as well. "Functionality" should include all of the above. That's the entire point of my comment. You're only considering as important what the Sony marketers and fanboys tell you is important.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
990
484
Most professionally produced scripted primetime content is p24. Virtually all movies are p24. p24 is the standard. You seem to be unaware of this. People want to emulate what they see. This is why all of Canon's competitors offer p24 capability in their cameras. Their potential customers want it and they offer it. Canon's potential customers want it, but Canon only sees lost Cx00 sales.
Many of us are aware that 24p is the standard in many production circles. What we don't understand is why it is considered so vital when the content is being broadcast on 30/60 hz systems to 30/60hz televisions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: privatebydesign

PGSanta

EOS 80D
Sep 5, 2018
140
105
San Diego, CA
You are equating spec sheet items with "functionality" but not including durability, the ability to continue working under extremely adverse environmental conditions, and just working the way it should out of the box as part of "functionality" as well. "Functionality" should include all of the above. That's the entire point of my comment. You're only considering as important what the Sony marketers and fanboys tell you is important.
Yes, I can only see what fanboys tell me.

I doubt you’ve ever actually spent much time with a Sony camera. They work just fine... out of the box, in the box, whatever.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,609
2,071
People want to shoot p24.
I’m sure some people do. Some people want to eat detergent pods to garner likes on social media.

The question is, how many want to shoot p24, and for what fraction of the global market does that desire represent a critical factor in the decision of whether or not to buy a particular camera? It’s a rhetorical question, you don’t have a clue as to the answer. However, it’s fairly likely that Canon does.

Just because he doesn't realize what can be done with p24 content and where it's used doesn't invalidate the point.
That’s basically what he asked — what can be done with p24 content that can’t be done with other frame rates? Are you unwilling to provide an answer to that question, or unable?

The point being made by several people boils down to viewing. If one is shooting footage to be used in a cinematic production shown in theaters, it seems reasonable to adhere to the established standard p24. Do you really think that cinematic productions are a majority use case for people buying Canon digital cameras? LOL.

Far more likely that people are going to watch footage they shoot on their own televisions. Those televisions typically offer frame interpolation (called different things by various manufacturers, TruMotion, AutoMotion, MotionFlow, etc.) that boosts p24 content to 60/120/240 fps, matching the refresh rate of the panel. Sure, there are technogeeks out there who will wade into the advanced menu settings and turn the feature off, to ‘experience the pure cinematography of 24 fps’ or some such, but I suspect most people don’t bother, and of course Canon’s target market is ‘most people’.

But I’m not a video guy, so I’ll pose the question again: in the context of viewing footage at home, what are the advantages of shooting in p24 and what can be done that is impossible to achieve with another frame rate?

Every camera reviewer should be loudly and proudly ridiculing Canon from the rooftops for such crippling...
So why aren’t they? Is it because they’re ‘sucking up’ as you suggest? Or could it be this issue has far more prominence in your own mind than it does in the real world?

This is why all of Canon's competitors offer p24 capability in their cameras. Their potential customers want it and they offer it. Canon's potential customers want it, but Canon only sees lost Cx00 sales.
All of Canon’s competitors offer it. Canon sells more digital cameras and more ILCs than any of their competitors...in fact, last year they sold more than their nearest two or three competitors (depending on segment) combined, bolstered by a ~4% increase market share. If you have some grasp of logic, those facts should tell you something about the importance of p24 video to the broader stills market.

Note that Canon’s consumer camcorders seem to shoot p24, from their current releases to at least as far back as my Vixia HF M41 from 2011. But as far as the stills market, the available evidence indicates that p24 is essentially irrelevant, despite your hyperbole about its apparent importance.
 
  • Like
Reactions: stevelee

Stereodude

EOS 80D
Jul 8, 2019
149
130
Many of us are aware that 24p is the standard in many production circles. What we don't understand is why it is considered so vital when the content is being broadcast on 30/60 hz systems to 30/60hz televisions.
Except any decent television doesn't display p24 content at 60Hz. It displays it at 120Hz with a 5:5 cadence when fed a p24 signal. On top of that good modern TVs can recover the original p24 frames from i60 and p60 signals and display them at 120Hz with a 5:5 cadence too. If you want the same look as professional content you shoot at p24. If you want to lobby the industry to try to move them away from p24 I'm sure they'll eager welcome your letters, faxes, and e-mails.

That’s basically what he asked — what can be done with p24 content that can’t be done with other frame rates? Are you unwilling to provide an answer to that question, or unable?
You really need to up your trolling game if this is the best retort you've got. Other frames rates don't look like p24, which why you shoot at p24.
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
7,895
1,025
119
Except any decent television doesn't display p24 content at 60Hz. It displays it at 120Hz with a 5:5 cadence when fed a p24 signal. On top of that good modern TVs can recover the original p24 frames from i60 and p60 signals and display them at 120Hz with a 5:5 cadence too. If you want the same look as professional content you shoot at p24. If you want to lobby the industry to try to move them away from p24 I'm sure they'll eager welcome your letters, faxes, and e-mails.


You really need to up your trolling game if this is the best retort you've got. Other frames rates don't look like p24, which why you shoot at p24.
This is such bull. Not one person alive can tell the difference between 24p displayed at 3:2 at 60Hz and 24p displayed at 5:5 at 120Hz, not one.

Other frame rates? 25p is indistinguishable from 24p, all Canon cameras can shoot 25p even those that can't shoot full width 1080 24p, and that was my point, those people complaining so bitterly that Canon has deliberately prevented them from making the most amazing videos ever because of a lack of 24p are talking bull.
 
  • Like
Reactions: stevelee

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,609
2,071
You really need to up your trolling game if this is the best retort you've got. Other frames rates don't look like p24, which why you shoot at p24.
That whooshing sound was the point sailing over your head. p24 doesn’t look like p24 when it’s interpolated up to 60/120/240 fps.

This discussion is manifestly pointless, but by all means go on whining about whatever trivial stuff matters to you, rest assured Canon couldn’t care less.
 
  • Like
Reactions: stevelee