Canon announces development of the EOS R5 full-frame mirrorless camera

unfocused

EOS 1D MK II
Jul 20, 2010
5,454
2,282
66
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
I'm still using one. Will probably buy another before they're all gone.

The 90D is a better general purpose camera than the 7D Mark II. But I've got 5-series cameras for general purpose work.

I use the 7D Mark II to shoot field sports under artificial lighting with telephoto lenses. For that purpose it's still a better camera, in my opinion, than the 90D, though each does have advantages over the other for that role. I choose the 7D Mark II for the longer shutter rating, the better build, and the better AF system.
Yeah, I have a feeling that the 7DII is going to hold its current value for awhile. Similar to the 1D IV -- which only recently dropped in value on the used market.
 

Gloads

EOS M50
Jan 27, 2020
44
31
I am wondering about resolution as it is being assumed.

The rumored R II (which came about just before the R5 leaked, and vanished once it did) was supposed to be 33/34MP. As 8k is either 33 or 35MP, could the R5 be that low a resolution? Increasing the sensor height to maintain 3:2 aspect ratio would make it either 39 or 45MP. Maybe someone looked at the video size and assumed that was the sensor size on the R II (which seems to have become the R5).

We could end up with the following based on similar throughput:

R6 @ 20MP x 20FPS
R5 @ 39MP x 20FPS
RS (R3?) @ 75MP x 13FPS
 

navastronia

EOS RP + 5D Classic
Aug 31, 2018
444
520
I am wondering about resolution as it is being assumed.

The rumored R II (which came about just before the R5 leaked, and vanished once it did) was supposed to be 33/34MP. As 8k is either 33 or 35MP, could the R5 be that low a resolution? Increasing the sensor height to maintain 3:2 aspect ratio would make it either 39 or 45MP. Maybe someone looked at the video size and assumed that was the sensor size on the R II (which seems to have become the R5).

We could end up with the following based on similar throughput:

R6 @ 20MP x 20FPS
R5 @ 39MP x 20FPS
RS (R3?) @ 75MP x 13FPS
Sounds about right for the R6 and R5, but the RS, I wouldn't count on that high a frame rate, since the camera isn't intended for fast shooting. 7-10 FPS?
 

BeenThere

EOS 6D MK II
Sep 4, 2012
935
284
I think there is a psychological barrier every $500 or so. That's why there is always the "99" at the end of prices because people look at the first numbers only and 3499 looks much cheaper than 3500.

I think the pricing for people who will buy this camera regardless doesn't matter much. But for people sitting on the fence of whether they really need this camera or will stick with what they have/buy the lesser model, price has a huge impact. I think there are more people in the second category than the first, and if Canons intent with this camera is to capture market share, I think the price will likely be closer to 3299 than 3799.

But they have marketing people that are far better in tune with the pricing process than any of us here. Sadly all we can do is wait although the conjecture is really fun... :)
Start with a high price to grab the pros and gotta haves. Then over two years gradually drop the price to pick up the droolers.
 
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unfocused

EOS 1D MK II
Jul 20, 2010
5,454
2,282
66
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
Start with a high price to grab the pros and gotta haves. Then over two years gradually drop the price to pick up the droolers.
Actually, I think you've got it backwards. Pros will wait. They already have a workflow that works so no urgency in trying something new. It's the "droolers" that will pay the early adopters premium. But, yes, the price will start high to capitalize on pent up demand. It will drop as the market always wins in the long run.
 

Famateur

EOS 6D MK II
Oct 9, 2012
808
137
I personnally think this will be priced higher, maybe 4499$. I'm pretty sure this will be the MSRP.
Imagine for a moment that there was no R5 announcement (or rumors). If Canon released a 5D Mark V DSLR with equivalent specs to the R5 and launched it at $4,499, what do you think would be the reaction from the market segment that the 5D series is aimed at? Sure, it might have features that could support the price, but then Canon would price that body right out of its intended market. I think you'd see 5D series users up in arms about being forced to either keep their old model or jump up $1,000 to another pricing tier.

Here's an unrelated illustration: NFL used to have three tiers for their Game Pass (or back then NFL Rewind) memberships. I don't remember the prices exactly, but it was something like $49, $79, $99. Each tier offered more features and "value". For me, the lower tier was just right, and I used it for a couple of years. Then one year, they dumped the tiers and have one price: $99. Guess who hasn't had a Game Pass membership since then? There were plenty of features to justify the price, but I could no longer justify it in my family budget, and the other features were things I had no interest in. Sure, they'd be great to have, but I'd rather have the lower priced plan I could afford that had the features that did the job.

I don't believe the R5 was randomly named. I believe it was named to get the attention of the 5D series market. In unrestrained dreamland, this camera could blow away even the 1DX. In realistic land, there will be some limitations that keep it within the pricing bounds of the 5D series. For example:

  • Limited buffer (say, 30-40 RAW images)
  • No AF or AF tracking in max high-speed burst
  • 1SD Card and 1 CFExpress instead of 2 CFExpress (or even 2 UHSII SD cards, although I doubt it)
  • No DPAF in 8K...or 4K 60p
  • Heavy crops in 4K
  • Lesser codecs, bit rates, bit depth, etc.
  • Lesser servo AF speed/accuracy compared to 1DXIII
None of these are intended to "cripple" the camera (but one could look at it that way), but rather to keep it priced for its target market and properly positioned relative to other price points in their product lineup.

I've already commented on this a few times, so I should probably give it a rest...but I figured the NFL comparison might help. :p
 
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HarryFilm

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 6, 2016
564
91
You seem to be deep into materials.
I understand that CNC machining is possible as opposed to glass. But, of course, CNC machining is coarse i.e. in mico meter but not in nano meter which still requires polishing. Not sure how it behaves at differing temperatures though i.e. contraction/expansion ...
Some really high end German-made CNC machines get down to 0.0005 of a millimetre or even better on any 3D-XYZ axis so it's getting better by the year!

In terms of polishing you can now automate it to such a degree, that laser-interferometry can now be used to gauge perfect curvature and/or flatness on a lens and repeat that perfect dimensioning over-and-over on EVERY lens in the production line. You need to "dope" the Acrylic or Polycarbonate with other elements in order to reduce "glass creep" and expansion/contraction issues BUT it is now possible to create in 2020 a high quality video and stills photo-centric lenses that are ON PAR with and even outperform fluorite glass elements. They will definitely be half-the-weight! The science of anti-scratch, polarization and anti-reflective surface coatings is what brings up the "plastic" lenses to glass-lens potential.

Again, a company like SIGMA definitely HAS the ability to make Acrylic or Polycarbonate still photo and cinema lenses... they just have to spend some money on the CNC machining technology and coating technology!

I HIGHLY SUGGEST the Kern Pyramid Nano for long-term precision serial production-level machining: (i.e. +/- 0.3 microns variance!) since it can do 500 mm by 500 mm plates of lens material, so that's about 50 to 100 lens elements in ONE RUN at ultra high precision! It would pay for itself in less than three months! Get TWENTY of these machines and SIGMA (or Canon!) could make SUPER-FAST compound curve Polycarbonate/Acrylic plastic lenses in batch-after-batch, enough to fulfill EVERY sales lead!


(Scroll down to the KERN Pyramid Nano machine)

ALL of the current Sigma Art-series Prime and Zoom lenses would be HALF the weight and about 5% to 10% FASTER than any of their current glass! I would PERSONALLY have no issue to spending the money on a FAST SIGMA plastic lens if it has a decent anti-scratch coating (i.e. thin film vapour deposited sapphire!) AND was even only 5% faster than the glass Art series primes and zooms! The weight savings alone would make them worthwhile!

--
 

unfocused

EOS 1D MK II
Jul 20, 2010
5,454
2,282
66
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
Imagine for a moment that there was no R5 announcement (or rumors). If Canon released a 5D Mark V DSLR with equivalent specs to the R5 and launched it at $4,499, what do you think would be the reaction from the market segment that the 5D series is aimed at? Sure, it might have features that could support the price, but then Canon would price that body right out of its intended market. I think you'd see 5D series users up in arms about being forced to either keep their old model or jump up $1,000 to another pricing tier...
At this point, it's anybody's guess. I tend to agree that it will come in at about the same level as the 5DV. The 5DIV was released at $3499. So maybe Canon introduces the R5 at $3799 to take advantage of pent-up demand. If they feel it is a stronger offering than the 5D, they may release the 5DV at around $3,599. Charging a $200 premium for the mirrorless.
 

HarryFilm

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 6, 2016
564
91
What have we done to upset you this time?? :p

Like I said earlier ...

I AM CANADIAN !!!!!

It means we use a MIX of British and American English

....AND...

it means my Math(s) say that the R5 image sensor will be EITHER 8192 x 5455 pixels (3:2 for stills) or 44,687,360 total pixels (44.68 megapixels) to allow for Hollywood standard 1.89:1 aspect ratio DCI (Digital Cinema Initiative) 8192 by 4320 pixel 8K video capture ....OR.... it will be 7680 x 5120 pixels (3:2 for stills) or 39,321,600 total pixels (39.32 megapixels) to allow the more consumer-oriented UHDTV 16:9 aspect ratio of 7680 by 4320 pixels to be captured for 8K video.

In SOME CASES, Canon may add between 60 to 120 pixels on the horizontal and/or vertical used as calibration photosites which means there MAY actually be a small crop for 8K video capture. And since it will LIKELY be a 36 mm by 24 mm image sensor put in the R5 that means the individual photo sites will be EITHER 4.3 microns or 4.6 microns which means it's dynamic range and low-light capability will be in-between the Canon 5Ds and the Sony A7r3. If it's closer to the Sony A7r3 side then Canon HAS A DEFINITE WINNER in combining dynamic range and low-light capability with high pixel count and high burst frame rate! So long you buy the Canon R-mount f/1.2 50mm and other f/1.2 lenses you have got LOTS of light gathering power and can take ANY type of interior and exterior imagery with great confidence!

I do believe because of the recent cancelation of the CP+ trade show that Canon will make ANOTHER specifications announcement sometime this coming week from Monday Feb 17 to Friday Feb 21 !!! It will likely contain the "real" video and stills recording specifications in greater detail including specific still photo and video frame sizes and recording formats, sustained video/stills fps and any 4:2:2, 4:4:4 and FULL RAW colour sampling specifications!

.
 

HarryFilm

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 6, 2016
564
91
Is Digic X it's own thing or a new line? I've read contrary remarks about it.
ALL earlier Digics were rebrands/redesigns of the ARM Cortex-A8 and/or ARM Cortex-A12 ARM processors (i.e.32-bit). I actually suspect now they are using a different core set (64-bit ARM Cortex-A55 or A57) with some fancy DSP (Digital Signal Processing) functionality added to the main cores. In my opinion they should have just rebranded Qualcomm Snapdragon 845 and 855 SOC processors for their latest gear so that they can get desktop-level graphics performance with the MUCH-EASIER software programming infrastructure! The DIGIC series is/was so restricted, that it is/was a REAL B&^&* to program all the low-level still photo and video DSP stuff when for little more than an extra $50 to $75 U.S. per camera they could have made their engineering and programming lives SOOOOO much easier by going for the Qualcomm CPUs in all the higher end stills and video cameras.

.
 

HarryFilm

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 6, 2016
564
91
Good thinking, Harry..
Acrylic has excellent resistance to weathering. UV light does very little damage to Acrylic over time and so Acrylic is often a good choice for outdoor applications. So, your lens likely will last for at least few years in outdoor use before it will develop a lemon yellow tint to it :) dispose of your lens at the time..

Why stop at Sapphire coating though? Be generous and go Diamond coating instead!
I know you're being SOMEWHAT sarcastic .... BUT .... Al2O3 (Alumina aka Sapphire) is REALLY CHEAP these days !!!

Up here in Canada, I can buy Alumina powder by the 15 Tonne truckload for dirt cheap from ALCAN and turn it into a nice sputtered/vapourous clear ceramic lens coating with but the addition of some cheap chemicals, simple heat and a vacuum chamber! Carbon Allotrope (aka Diamond) is EXTREMELY difficult to make properly without very expensive anvils and high pressures and the Diamond coating vapour deposition process is STILL patented by a company in Florida at a rather expensive royalty rate! So Sapphire it must be! Plus, Sapphire can withstand up to 2000 degrees Celcius which is MUCH better than Diamond's 700 degrees Celcius with nearly the same scratch resistance!

Again, if a company LIKE SIGMA could make PLASTIC R-mount lenses out of Polycarbonate or Acrylic and Sapphire-coat them, they would be f/1.0 prime lenses at HALF-the-weight and 10% to 20% cheaper to make than their CURRENT Sigma Art Series Prime and Zoom lenses.

I would LOOOOOOOOOVE to have the Sigma 150 to 600mm Sports Zoom to be f/4.0-to-f/5.0 OR EVEN FASTER and have it weigh 50% less than the current one! I would buy it the VERY DAY it came on the market! In FACT, with the high refractive index of thin film Sapphire-coated Polycarbonate (i.e. higher than glass!), we could have a 95 to 800mm Sports Zoom at f4.0 to f/5.6 that is LIGHTER and shorter than today's Sigma 150-to-600 mm sports zoom! I would DEFINITELY pay a premium for that lens!!!!! (Hmmm....not too much of a premium Sigma !!! ...but a nice profitable enough premium for Sigma IF they can pull it off!!! --- And I KNOW THEY CAN !!!! )



..



.
 
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Trankilstef

Image making loverEOS R and EOS R5 (soon)
Jan 5, 2020
20
25
www.stephanetranquillin.com
Imagine for a moment that there was no R5 announcement (or rumors). If Canon released a 5D Mark V DSLR with equivalent specs to the R5 and launched it at $4,499, what do you think would be the reaction from the market segment that the 5D series is aimed at? Sure, it might have features that could support the price, but then Canon would price that body right out of its intended market. I think you'd see 5D series users up in arms about being forced to either keep their old model or jump up $1,000 to another pricing tier.

Here's an unrelated illustration: NFL used to have three tiers for their Game Pass (or back then NFL Rewind) memberships. I don't remember the prices exactly, but it was something like $49, $79, $99. Each tier offered more features and "value". For me, the lower tier was just right, and I used it for a couple of years. Then one year, they dumped the tiers and have one price: $99. Guess who hasn't had a Game Pass membership since then? There were plenty of features to justify the price, but I could no longer justify it in my family budget, and the other features were things I had no interest in. Sure, they'd be great to have, but I'd rather have the lower priced plan I could afford that had the features that did the job.

I don't believe the R5 was randomly named. I believe it was named to get the attention of the 5D series market. In unrestrained dreamland, this camera could blow away even the 1DX. In realistic land, there will be some limitations that keep it within the pricing bounds of the 5D series. For example:

  • Limited buffer (say, 30-40 RAW images)
  • No AF or AF tracking in max high-speed burst
  • 1SD Card and 1 CFExpress instead of 2 CFExpress (or even 2 UHSII SD cards, although I doubt it)
  • No DPAF in 8K...or 4K 60p
  • Heavy crops in 4K
  • Lesser codecs, bit rates, bit depth, etc.
  • Lesser servo AF speed/accuracy compared to 1DXIII
None of these are intended to "cripple" the camera (but one could look at it that way), but rather to keep it priced for its target market and properly positioned relative to other price points in their product lineup.

I've already commented on this a few times, so I should probably give it a rest...but I figured the NFL comparison might help. :p
You're right but Canon will not only price it accordingly to theit own products, but also to the competition.
And it happens that this camera if there is no obvious cripple on its features, this camera is more bulletproof specs wise than any competitor in the mirrorless and even dslr market. And when you see that the Panasonic S1H is priced at 4000$, what would prevent Canon to put a higher price tag than what we were used to in the 5d line? Add to that the technological tour de force (8k, 4k120p, the innovation in every industry often leads to higher prices), and the fact that Canon is known to put the price of their products a bit higher than the competition, and we can all agree that we should raise our price expectations.
I keep my bet on 4499$ for the MSRP. Just a tad higher than S1H is reasonable regarding the specs.
 

AEWest

EOS 80D
Jan 30, 2020
149
166
Imagine for a moment that there was no R5 announcement (or rumors). If Canon released a 5D Mark V DSLR with equivalent specs to the R5 and launched it at $4,499, what do you think would be the reaction from the market segment that the 5D series is aimed at? Sure, it might have features that could support the price, but then Canon would price that body right out of its intended market. I think you'd see 5D series users up in arms about being forced to either keep their old model or jump up $1,000 to another pricing tier.

Here's an unrelated illustration: NFL used to have three tiers for their Game Pass (or back then NFL Rewind) memberships. I don't remember the prices exactly, but it was something like $49, $79, $99. Each tier offered more features and "value". For me, the lower tier was just right, and I used it for a couple of years. Then one year, they dumped the tiers and have one price: $99. Guess who hasn't had a Game Pass membership since then? There were plenty of features to justify the price, but I could no longer justify it in my family budget, and the other features were things I had no interest in. Sure, they'd be great to have, but I'd rather have the lower priced plan I could afford that had the features that did the job.

I don't believe the R5 was randomly named. I believe it was named to get the attention of the 5D series market. In unrestrained dreamland, this camera could blow away even the 1DX. In realistic land, there will be some limitations that keep it within the pricing bounds of the 5D series. For example:

  • Limited buffer (say, 30-40 RAW images)
  • No AF or AF tracking in max high-speed burst
  • 1SD Card and 1 CFExpress instead of 2 CFExpress (or even 2 UHSII SD cards, although I doubt it)
  • No DPAF in 8K...or 4K 60p
  • Heavy crops in 4K
  • Lesser codecs, bit rates, bit depth, etc.
  • Lesser servo AF speed/accuracy compared to 1DXIII
None of these are intended to "cripple" the camera (but one could look at it that way), but rather to keep it priced for its target market and properly positioned relative to other price points in their product lineup.

I've already commented on this a few times, so I should probably give it a rest...but I figured the NFL comparison might help. :p
I disagree. It was named the R5 specifically to replace the 5D series. And no one would pay $4,499 for a 5D5 if it existed because they know they are buying into an obsolete mount - EF. I predict that once the R5 becomes available, 5D4 prices (new and used) will fall substantially.
 
Feb 15, 2020
88
65
I know you're being SOMEWHAT sarcastic .... BUT .... Al2O3 (Alumina aka Sapphire) is REALLY CHEAP these days !!!

Up here in Canada, I can buy Alumina powder by the 15 Tonne truckload for dirt cheap from ALCAN and turn it into a nice sputtered/vapourous clear ceramic lens coating with but the addition of some cheap chemicals, simple heat and a vacuum chamber! Carbon Allotrope (aka Diamond) is EXTREMELY difficult to make properly without very expensive anvils and high pressures and the Diamond coating vapour deposition process is STILL patented by a company in Florida at a rather expensive royalty rate! So Sapphire it must be! Plus, Sapphire can withstand up to 2000 degrees Celcius which is MUCH better than Diamond's 700 degrees Celcius with nearly the same scratch resistance!

Again, if a company LIKE SIGMA could make PLASTIC R-mount lenses out of Polycarbonate or Acrylic and Sapphire-coat them, they would be f/1.0 prime lenses at HALF-the-weight and 10% to 20% cheaper to make than their CURRENT Sigma Art Series Prime and Zoom lenses.

I would LOOOOOOOOOVE to have the Sigma 150 to 600mm Sports Zoom to be f/4.0-to-f/5.0 OR EVEN FASTER and have it weigh 50% less than the current one! I would buy it the VERY DAY it came on the market! In FACT, with the high refractive index of thin film Sapphire-coated Polycarbonate (i.e. higher than glass!), we could have a 95 to 800mm Sports Zoom at f4.0 to f/5.6 that is LIGHTER and shorter than today's Sigma 150-to-600 mm sports zoom! I would DEFINITELY pay a premium for that lens!!!!! (Hmmm....not too much of a premium Sigma !!! ...but a nice profitable enough premium for Sigma IF they can pull it off!!! --- And I KNOW THEY CAN !!!! )



..



.
Don't clear plastics turn yellow after a few years of UV exposure?
 

HarryFilm

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 6, 2016
564
91
Don't clear plastics turn yellow after a few years of UV exposure?
It highly depends upon the coatings and plastic formula dopants used!

Our in-house optical engineer said that indium-based anti-reflective/anti-glare coatings plus hydroxyphenyltriazines UV stabilizers AND/OR Hindered Amine Light Stabilizers (HALS aka 2,2,6,6-tetramethylpiperidine) will extend the Polycarbonate lifespan by decades. If you introduce UV wavelength barriers in the thin film vapour deposited Sapphire coating itself, yellowing of the Polycarbonate or Acrylic is almost completely avoided (an infused sapphire UV barrier coating AND an in-plastic anti-UV additive will allow 50 year to 100+ year lifespans of plastic lenses!)

--
 
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