Canon announces development of the EOS R5 full-frame mirrorless camera

telemaque

Before Sunset
Nov 30, 2019
68
30
Fair enough. To be accurate, I should have said people who are happy with what they have already, even with the availability of an R5 at whatever price Canon is charging for it.
You ask an excellent question. Especially for an amateur like me.
If I would only shoot stills, I think I would not look at a new body.

I bought the Canon 60D with the idea of using it in still and video. This is an excellent body.
It has some limits in low light and this was a bit of a problem for me as I shoot some conferences for my job and also some low light photos in general.
I love this special feeling given by light just before sunset, called in French "between dogs and wolves".
However, it had been a step change versus my Canon 350D, mostly used for astronomy pictures.

I also love art and normally I am visiting 80% of the key exhibitions in Paris, France.
Indeed, some exhibitions are simply fantastic and gather master pieces I might only see once in my life. So I like to have a picture of it.
What I do is that I take the pictures of the full exhibition when authorized. Again low light is the problem with exhibitions.


When the 6D was at the end of its official sales life, the price was divided by 2 and I bought it.
I really enjoy its capacity in low light.

What remained a frustation on my side is the lack of high resolution quality in video.
The stills with both bodies are fantastic but the video quality not that great at all in comparison with a Lumix GH5 or GH4.

I also have a Canon XA30 which I thought would produce better video quality but it is not really the case.
Canon XA30 is a perfect video camera for interviews, conferences and documentaries where you do not have time. Easy to use, lots of automatic help.
But when you have time, you put a tripod on a seaside for the world championship of windsurf, you are dreaming of fabulous high resolution videos and NO they are just ok. The video quality is not detailled oriented and this is annoying. Contrary to Lumix GH5 (again).

So I bought in 2018 during Black Friday the Lumix FZ1000 where I get this high resolution video camera, but it is a bridge and all my L lenses can not be used... However, video quality is impressive. FZ1000 is kind of a small GH4 with IBIS !

So Canon R5 might be the body I am hopping to find: excellent stills but also excellent videos quality.
Where my Canon lenses could be used...
If the video quality is not there, I will not buy it. I will continue with my current bodies.

Attached: exhibition on the French art during François 1st (16th century) Body 6D
IMG_0192.JPGIMG_0185.JPG

Brand new streets and shops in my district: Body 6D
IMG_0947.JPGIMG_0957.JPGIMG_0959.JPG

I hope it clarifies why people like me are interested in such a body.
 
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navastronia

EOS RP + 5D Classic
Aug 31, 2018
445
520
It works well if the flicker is at 100 hertz or 120 hertz (or their multiples). It's revolutionized my keeper rate and post processing workflow under typical high school and small college football/baseball/gym lights. Not only is color consistent from shot to shot, so most images can be batch processed, but the shutter release is timed at the peak of the lights, so it can give a 1/2 to 2/3 stop faster Tv for the same ISO and Av. If light from more than one light tower in different phases are both illuminating areas in the frame, then the shutter is usually synced to the brightest source at its peak, but it is less effective in such cases.

Bryan at The-Digital-Picture wrote an article about it a while back when it first came out with the 7D Mark II.
Wow, that's awesome! Thanks for replying and for sharing your experience. I'm going to enable it right now :D
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
2,198
1,252
Like I said earlier ...

I AM CANADIAN !!!!!

It means we use a MIX of British and American English

....AND...

it means my Math(s) say that the R5 image sensor will be EITHER 8192 x 5455 pixels (3:2 for stills) or 44,687,360 total pixels (44.68 megapixels) to allow for Hollywood standard 1.89:1 aspect ratio DCI (Digital Cinema Initiative) 8192 by 4320 pixel 8K video capture ....OR.... it will be 7680 x 5120 pixels (3:2 for stills) or 39,321,600 total pixels (39.32 megapixels) to allow the more consumer-oriented UHDTV 16:9 aspect ratio of 7680 by 4320 pixels to be captured for 8K video.

In SOME CASES, Canon may add between 60 to 120 pixels on the horizontal and/or vertical used as calibration photosites which means there MAY actually be a small crop for 8K video capture. And since it will LIKELY be a 36 mm by 24 mm image sensor put in the R5 that means the individual photo sites will be EITHER 4.3 microns or 4.6 microns which means it's dynamic range and low-light capability will be in-between the Canon 5Ds and the Sony A7r3. If it's closer to the Sony A7r3 side then Canon HAS A DEFINITE WINNER in combining dynamic range and low-light capability with high pixel count and high burst frame rate! So long you buy the Canon R-mount f/1.2 50mm and other f/1.2 lenses you have got LOTS of light gathering power and can take ANY type of interior and exterior imagery with great confidence!

I do believe because of the recent cancelation of the CP+ trade show that Canon will make ANOTHER specifications announcement sometime this coming week from Monday Feb 17 to Friday Feb 21 !!! It will likely contain the "real" video and stills recording specifications in greater detail including specific still photo and video frame sizes and recording formats, sustained video/stills fps and any 4:2:2, 4:4:4 and FULL RAW colour sampling specifications!

.
Pretty much every Canon digital imaging sensor for still imaging outputs pixel dimensions divisible by 16 for efficient JPEG encoding. Any edge/masked pixels are in addition to these dimensions. So the sensor will not be 8192x5455. It may be 8208 x 5472 or 8256x5504 or some other similar resolution with both sides divisible by 16.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
2,198
1,252
That’s it or shift focus priority to 100% on focus while tracking. That would be 2FPS per second :))
That only applies in AI Servo AF. In One Shot AF mode (where priority is always AF and a longer sampling period than AI Servo gets) with High Speed Continuous Drive mode it wouldn't make any difference. It would also be lens dependent. Lenses that focus faster would slow the camera less than those that focus slower.

I've got my cameras set to first frame = AF priority and following frames to "balanced" and still get around the rated fps with fast focusing lenses.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
2,198
1,252
You're right but Canon will not only price it accordingly to theit own products, but also to the competition.
And it happens that this camera if there is no obvious cripple on its features, this camera is more bulletproof specs wise than any competitor in the mirrorless and even dslr market. And when you see that the Panasonic S1H is priced at 4000$, what would prevent Canon to put a higher price tag than what we were used to in the 5d line? Add to that the technological tour de force (8k, 4k120p, the innovation in every industry often leads to higher prices), and the fact that Canon is known to put the price of their products a bit higher than the competition, and we can all agree that we should raise our price expectations.
I keep my bet on 4499$ for the MSRP. Just a tad higher than S1H is reasonable regarding the specs.
$4499 is more than a "tad' higher than $4000, it's 12.475% or one-eighth (1/8) higher.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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Many of us have been using our older cameras for some time.
Perhaps I am not the average consumer but I went from 10D to 7D and still use the 7D as the incremental improvements since then are not sufficient to make me want to jump as they will not make me any better. The 10D to 7D was primarily because of DR and Pixels 6.5 to 18.
Now I am looking at the R5 as a real jump that will allow for ability to do things my 7D is lacking and for me the use of my old FD and older lenses and have IBIS. So now moving up has become truly interesting. Those who get a new camera every year or itteration will buy new because they do just to have the latest.
I do see the R5 as a major jump over all Canon DSLRs except the 1D MIII by a huge margin.
The 7D Mark II, which has now been on the market for over five years, was what the 7D should have been and fixed a lot of its shortcomings: It has an RGB+IR light meter, flicker reduction, and a true world class AF system derived from the 1D X/5D Mark III. All three of those improvements made the camera much more usable than the 7D for what is it designed to do. But neither the 7D nor the 7D Mark II is a good great generalist camera compared to what else was available around the time it was introduced.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
2,198
1,252
I do agree that 5D4 is a great stills camera that will last for many years and take great images. It is worth staying with this setup for several more years especially if he or she has a substantial EF lens investment.

But if a new 5D5 did in fact come out, I would be very hesitant on buying it at a high price given where the market is going.
I guess that would all depend upon whether one makes camera buying decisions based on what one can do with it to produce photographs and motion pictures or how much one might eventually be able to get when selling it.
 

joestopper

Rrr...
Feb 4, 2020
204
184
Yep saw that. Completely my opinion but I am feeling like they will market and make pre sales available for the R5 first, before shedding more light on the R6. Although, both may launch together. But to me it will be sensible to make the more expensive R5 available for pre sale orders first.
OK. Keeps all of us excited ...
 

Architect1776

Defining the poetics of space through Architecture
Aug 18, 2017
583
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Williamsport, PA
The 7D Mark II, which has now been on the market for over five years, was what the 7D should have been and fixed a lot of its shortcomings: It has an RGB+IR light meter, flicker reduction, and a true world class AF system derived from the 1D X/5D Mark III. All three of those improvements made the camera much more usable than the 7D for what is it designed to do. But neither the 7D nor the 7D Mark II is a good great generalist camera compared to what else was available around the time it was introduced.
The things you mentioned had no meaning to me. I do not do flicker light photos, nor video or RGB+IR metering, these mean nothing either as my meter does perfect for what I do. I look for features that I would actually use, not spec bragging rights. Yes many want those spec bragging rights but I would lay money that a lot of people never use them just brag they have them. Tey set the camera to P like the rest of the world and go make great shots through skill, vision and talent.
Those might be nice for some people but meant nothing to me in getting the shot I want in the way I shoot.
Now the IBIS on a Canon product that is huge. All my old lenses now will fit with an adapter and not corrective lens and be stabilized, dream come true. The rest of the R5 is nice but those are earth shattering for me.
 

Max C

Canon 60D
Feb 9, 2020
30
55
Now the IBIS on a Canon product that is huge. All my old lenses now will fit with an adapter and not corrective lens and be stabilized, dream come true. The rest of the R5 is nice but those are earth shattering for me.
Huge for me as well, since a lot of the affordable EF lenses don’t have stabilization. It’s a nice stop gap, while giving me time to save for RF lenses. Some current R users saying IBIS not a big deal for them, but for me it will be a welcomed feature.
 

Architect1776

Defining the poetics of space through Architecture
Aug 18, 2017
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Just because it doesn't say 24fps (at this point) doesn't mean it wont be there. It will be in the R5. Just wait for the full announcement in a couple months.
It most likely will get 24p. Look at the freaking out and suicides because the R did not have it. Then Canon added it. I bet they just wanted to get rid of the coronary cases before they did. :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 
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Architect1776

Defining the poetics of space through Architecture
Aug 18, 2017
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Williamsport, PA
Knowing the way Canon operates, it is safe to assume that they have solved the heat issue allowing for sustained 8k recording. Canon did have a heat issue problem: That is the reason we have not seen IBIS earlier, even though they had patents on it years ago.
Canon wants it right not first.
FD was superior for its day.
EF destroyed all comers for decades.
RF ????
 

Architect1776

Defining the poetics of space through Architecture
Aug 18, 2017
583
561
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Williamsport, PA
This is my main concern. This is their first ILC with IBIS. Having been burned (badly) by the 1D3 focus issues, there is only so much you can fix with firmware. Not having IBIS work right would be a bummer for me, but it is not as bad as having focusing issues.
Then wait like I am for it to be out, bugs fixed if any then purchase a year later.
 

joestopper

Rrr...
Feb 4, 2020
204
184
This is my main concern. This is their first ILC with IBIS. Having been burned (badly) by the 1D3 focus issues, there is only so much you can fix with firmware. Not having IBIS work right would be a bummer for me, but it is not as bad as having focusing issues.
The reason we see IBIS only now is that Canon wanted to make it perfect and they had for sure prototypes long time running and testing. And many patents.
I am not worried knowing their philosophy (even though sometimes things went wrong but they have learned from it).
 

HarryFilm

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 6, 2016
564
91
Harry,

Your writing is very interesting. Do you have any weblink to share where people who would like to dive into (even more) details could?
Details like which company is working on this? Which lab is working on this? Where are the production sites.
etc.
Thanks a lot.
---

Originally, Polycarbonate and Acrylic have been used in Eyeglasses/Sunglasses production.

Further information about such uses is below:



but for computer and video imaging application LITTLE has been done except in Infrared (thermal) imaging applications for reasons outlines below which are an illustration of the TRADITIONAL PROBLEMS of using polymer lenses in video, still photo and telescope applications:


Lens Power and Chromatic Aberration:

HOWEVER, today in 2020 it actually IS POSSIBLE to make a typical still photo and video-centric optical lens for use on consumer and professional grade video and still photo cameras since much research and NEW FIXES for those traditional manufacturing and coating issues is now available from such places as GS Optics, Edmunds Scientific and many others:




Plastic Lenses REQUIRE anti-scratch coatings:


Good Technical Book to Read:
Handbook of Optomechanical Engineering


If you want to BUY Molded Acrylic Aspheric lenses:


For Short Wave Infrared Imaging purposes someone has decided PLASTIC LENSES are good enough!

Antireflection Coatings Make Plastic Lenses “Disappear”




Precision CNC Machining Polymer Lenses:


The key part is while there is ACTIVE RESEARCH into cinema camera-grade optics, there is NOT YET a viable product being sold in the general marketplace. However, if Canon OR Sigma wish to do so, it is EASILY done by their optics teams who DO HAVE the technical expertise to make FAST lenses made of polycarbonate and/or acrylic happen!
 

HarryFilm

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 6, 2016
564
91
Astronomy
I see we have some passions in common. Astronomy is a big one for me also. I see you seem to have a Questar 7', I have the Questar 3.5' field version. a Takahashi Mewlon 210, and triplet apochromat 80mm from Meade.

I would expect the coatings used for Questar telescope, so Maksutov-Cassegrain optical scheme, to be very strong and very durable on the elliptical lens that closes the telescope tube. For this glass part of the telescope coatings should be very strong. On a Takahashi, which is simple modified Cassegrain, so no lens that closes the telescope tube, the coating is only on the mirror and maybe not UV treated.

Ink Jet Paper UV treated
I know a bit the protocol for UV durable products in other industries like Ink Jet Papers used to print photographies. I worked in this field 15 years ago and it was a bit at its beginning. Meanwhile, the protocol is quite strict and a clear approach is testing papers under harsh UV conditions, from these results the paper industry is promising a paper that would keep the picture for 100 years or so.

Obviously, the whole approach only started 15-20 years ago for the Ink Jet Paper and nobody can confirm for sure what happens in 100 years of daylight.
However, the conditions are really harsh and we have all seen the incredible improvement in quality of Ink Jet Papers for producing our pictures taken with Canon cameras. The promise from the industry is a prediction from a calculation based on harsh testing.

The UV technology used inside the coatings of an Ink Jet Paper should not be very different from what you see in other coatings ie glass or polymers or paints coatings. It is a always a multilayer coatings and certain layer are dedicated to capture UV light through a chemical reaction, stop radicals (the products of such a chemical reaction). Chemistries might change from one application to another but methods to stop UV light consequences are similar or the same.
Check the link from BASF, I had put on another post. Also the one Harry had put from Wikipedia.
---

The issue with polymer lenses (i.e. plastic) of any kind is that by ADDING stabilizers, scavenger molecules and others is that those compounds themselves cause loss of transmission at certain optical wavelengths which could be problematic for capturing high quality imagery for cinema, video and still photographers. This loss of transmissibility is ONE reason why current plastic lens production for imaging is mostly directed towards SHORT WAVE INFRARED nightvision tasks. In some cases, the stabilizer compounds will turn a milky white after a few years after exposure to UV even though the compounds have done their job of keeping the polycarbonate and acrylic free from embrittlement.

The KEY ISSUE in the year 2020 is using a coating over a hard thin film corundum as the protective mechanism against UV and IR wavelengths for plastic lenses! By using AL2O3 (alumina aka sapphire), you can make a super hard anti-scratch lens surface AND THEN COAT THAT with anti-glare/Anti-reflective (Indium Tin Oxide) and organic UV and/or IR absorbers and scatterers!

Again, as I have espoused earlier, the lenses made of thin-film Sapphire-coated Polycarbonate (or Acrylic) using compound curve and aspherical lens elements would be BOTH FASTER (i.e. f/1.0) and LIGHTER in weight (2/3rds to half-the weight of a glass prime and/or zoom lens!).

I also absolutely know Canon and Sigma have the TECHNICAL ABILITY but their marketing teams seem to have reticence over such an idea as a 95-800 mm f/4.0-f/5.6 Sports Zoom Lens with sapphire-coated Polycarbonate and/or Acrylic lens elements!

I KNOW I personally have NO PROBLEM putting such a lens on the Visa/Mastercard a few mere seconds after it becomes available for order online!

.
 
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