Canon appears to have confirmed IBIS is on the roadmap

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
422
143
It will appease a lot of people only if it has specs similar to competition. If it matches / tops those specs only with IS lenses and deliver significantly worse specs with lenses without IS I expect people to moan again. Since Canon is putting IS almost everywhere, I expect that it is exactly what is going to happen.
Let them moan! The rest of us will be out making pictures.
 
Reactions: CanonFanBoy

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
422
143
The picture of the slide cleary says in body image stabilization, seems the term all optical IS means they are moving out the digital IS and its all done in both lenses and on sensor. Wonder how many stops you gain when combined!
With most other manufacturer's implementations, using both together is only about one stop better than the better of either IBIS or IS when used alone.
 

Del Paso

M3 Singlestroke
Aug 9, 2018
278
243
They whined because Canon didn't have IBIS.
Now, since Canon is about to get IBIS, they start to criticize the planned IBIS for its poor quality....
Nostradamus lives...:p and has many followers who already know they will be disappointed in a year from now!
 
I believe, according to their full presentation, that their "ALL OPTICAL IS" is only a further enhancement of their lens-based IS, and will not be an In-Body Image Stabilization, as you would know as IBIS, (as stabilizing the image sensor), but rather using dedicated sensors in the body to further refine how the lens-based system responds and reacts, giving the system additional information rather than relying solely on what's happening at the end of a lens. And also the specific info supplied by these dedicated sensors can also be used for their "digital-based" image stabilization. And that is why the information appears in their Lens Roadmap, that while this system in included in the RP body, it needs updated lenses to complete the technology.....
I too have question whether this "ALL OPTICAL IS" is a transition form electronically stabilized lenses to the lenses themselves being optically stabilized like Panasonic's OIS or Sony's OSS or simply an enhanced version of either electronic stabilization.
 

CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D MK IV
Jan 28, 2015
2,963
540
Irving, Texas
They whined because Canon didn't have IBIS.
Now, since Canon is about to get IBIS, they start to criticize the planned IBIS for its poor quality....
Nostradamus lives...:p and has many followers who already know they will be disappointed in a year from now!
Pitiful, isn't it? Makes one wonder what they are like to live with. Constant clouds over their heads.
 

amorse

EOS RP
Jan 26, 2017
297
194
www.flickr.com
I wish they would come out with a product announcement for EOS R Pro just like they did with their 6 RF lenses.
Wishful thinking.
I'm looking forward to that too, but they did make the comment that they know there are some high expectations for the upcoming camera and they want to get it right. With that in mind, I would bet that they'll hold their cards close to their chest until its pretty close to ready to go. I'm going to bet acknowledgement of a higher end body in their pipeline is as close to a development announcement as we're going to get.

I would expect that they want some sort of hook from a marketing perspective to push the body. For instance, the R boasted the best low light focusing, the RP was lightest/cheapest to date, and I'm sure they'll want something like that for launch of the pro body. The issue with development announcements is that if they come too early, their promises may not align with reality in the end.

At the end of the day, I think we can be confident that Canon is going to offer a higher-end mirrorless camera because they've left the high-end price bracket alone for mirrorless. I can't see the EOS R being their most expensive mirrorless body they offer when they know people will pay over $3600 for a camera like the 5DsR. That's not to knock the 5DsR, it's just a note that Canon is a lot of things, but cheap isn't one of them! If Canon thinks they can get over $3k from consumers, they're going to try.
 

bokehmon22

EOS RP
Oct 31, 2016
303
164
I'm looking forward to that too, but they did make the comment that they know there are some high expectations for the upcoming camera and they want to get it right. With that in mind, I would bet that they'll hold their cards close to their chest until its pretty close to ready to go. I'm going to bet acknowledgement of a higher end body in their pipeline is as close to a development announcement as we're going to get.

I would expect that they want some sort of hook from a marketing perspective to push the body. For instance, the R boasted the best low light focusing, the RP was lightest/cheapest to date, and I'm sure they'll want something like that for launch of the pro body. The issue with development announcements is that if they come too early, their promises may not align with reality in the end.

At the end of the day, I think we can be confident that Canon is going to offer a higher-end mirrorless camera because they've left the high-end price bracket alone for mirrorless. I can't see the EOS R being their most expensive mirrorless body they offer when they know people will pay over $3600 for a camera like the 5DsR. That's not to knock the 5DsR, it's just a note that Canon is a lot of things, but cheap isn't one of them! If Canon thinks they can get over $3k from consumers, they're going to try.
We also have 3 possible EOS R Pro models: 5D, 5DSR, 1DX. Which one will they prioritize first? If I knew, it would make my decision easier. I'm also consider Sony next generation camera, Panasonic S1, and EOS R Pro.

I agree with you it won't be cheap. Whatever they decided to do, I bet it won't be cheap since EOS R was expected to be around $2000, but it's $2300 and missing some features.

I also agree with you that they probably don't want to do development announcement too early.

Canon: We know there's a lot of customers and there's strong demand for a pro body. We're aware of that. But at the same time, the expectations in terms of performance are really high as well, so we need time to make sure that we get everything right in the body.
It seems like it can be a while for them to release a pro model especially if they want to implement new sensor, better AF, EVF, 4K, eyeAF. Canon is great at many things but I tihnk they are being hold back by sensor design. I expect late 2019/early 2020 for a pro model.
 

SwissFrank

EOS 80D
Dec 9, 2018
108
50
Well yes, because they have to earn our money. Shoving-out half-baked products like the R isn't the way to achieve that beyond a small hard-core.

So now they've indicated that IBIS will appear in a future product, why bother with the R or RP? Neither are going to give a professional user an edge over a 5D4 and both seem to have a limited lifespan until made obsolete.
Well, every product is superseded by future products, right? So the Sony a7iii is "half baked" because there will be an a7iv at some point.

Rather than try to gauge how baked a camera is, why not just ask how good it is? The R seems more desirable to me than a bigger, more expensive SLR that can't use the great new lenses, and thx to the lenses it seems better to get into this system than the Sony system as well. I've had 3 Canon film bodies and 3 Canon DSLRs. I imagine I'll own another couple FFMLIC bodies before I keel over.

Even if IBIS will appear in a future product, why bother with the R or RP? I imagine the pro bodies will be more than I need or want to spend, and they're not available yet. I'm sure IBIS will work down to the R's pricepoint, but will definitely take several years and a couple generations. What would you prefer I shoot with in the mean-time? I replaced my EOS M (great camera, though I suppose you'd say half-baked since it was rapidly improved) and EOS-1Ds MkIII with the R and my only regret is that I waited two whole months to do it. (OTOH, buying mint-quality used also saved me 25% so the wait was actually worth it.)
 

SwissFrank

EOS 80D
Dec 9, 2018
108
50
The picture of the slide cleary says in body image stabilization, seems the term all optical IS means they are moving out the digital IS
Gosh, I hope not. Anything you can do by physically moving the sensor you can do by digital manipulation, but with fewer moving parts, more reliably, smaller, ultimately cheaper. If the current digital stabilization isn't quite there, fine, do something physical, but I'd much rather see a full-digital solution. The R actually does digital stabilization in movies. I don't know what's preventing them from doing that in stills as well.
 
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Jethro

EOS R
Jul 14, 2018
144
65
If this turns out to be the "5D" version in the R series...then, I"m saving my nickels to get that one, and will put my trusty old 5D3 into backup status.

I would be VERY excited about a R version 5D type camera....2x cards, etc....

cayenne
It's interesting where that camera will sit - both the EOS R and EOS RP sit 'between' existing cameras (the EOS R between the 5Div and the 6Dii, and the EOSR RP between the 6Dii and the higher level APS-C and EOS M models). This seems to be to encourage people to upgrade into the EOS range. So, in theory a 'pro' EOS model might be pitched between the 5Div and the 1DX - maybe even re-using the 1DX sensor to cut costs and encourage people to trade up from a 5Div(?). But if it is a high profile pro camera to be released pre the Olympics next year, reusing a sensor might not fit - issues like FPS would be important (which seems to have size implications in a mirrorless body). And where does that leave a high MP EOS body?
 
Gosh, I hope not. Anything you can do by physically moving the sensor you can do by digital manipulation, but with fewer moving parts, more reliably, smaller, ultimately cheaper. If the current digital stabilization isn't quite there, fine, do something physical, but I'd much rather see a full-digital solution. The R actually does digital stabilization in movies. I don't know what's preventing them from doing that in stills as well.
Actually, a combination of both would be perfect. But yeah, you´re right. If they develop a great digital stabilizer, it will be much cheaper to implement this in other cameras.

Maybe pro models will get a combination of both - something like physical sensor movement for 2 EV stabilization + digital for another 2 EV.

I am having my hopes up for a pro model getting released soon. Though i am sure, that i will miss my 6D as a backup camera for weddings. Especially battery life is like forever on a 6D compared to a 5D Mark IV - so i wonder what the battery life will be on a R pro-body.
 

SwissFrank

EOS 80D
Dec 9, 2018
108
50
the EOS R between the 5Div and the 6Dii
How so, other than price? The R seems to have the same sensor and imaging options (e.g. movies etc.). However, FAR superior autofocus both manual and auto. The R only has one memory slot but you can put 512GB in there today; is that simply not enough? Battery is likewise a problem but the dual-battery grip is already available I think, and that trades for far superior portability. How long does it take to change batteries? Finally the RF lenses I think are already compelling, with the 24-105IS smaller and sharper, 50/1.2 sharper than any lens made by anybody (probably tied with the Leica APO-Sumi from f/2), 28-70/2 so speccy it STILL looks like a typo.
 

blackcoffee17

EOS 80D
Sep 17, 2014
107
77
Gosh, I hope not. Anything you can do by physically moving the sensor you can do by digital manipulation, but with fewer moving parts, more reliably, smaller, ultimately cheaper. If the current digital stabilization isn't quite there, fine, do something physical, but I'd much rather see a full-digital solution. The R actually does digital stabilization in movies. I don't know what's preventing them from doing that in stills as well.
Digital IS for stills would mean a big crop, loss of resolution and field of view. The same applies for video and it's only possible now because video resolution is always a fraction of the total sensor resolution and Canon uses a heavy crop already for 4K.

No one wants to use a 15mm lens to end up with 18mm focal length when the IS is enabled.
 
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SwissFrank

EOS 80D
Dec 9, 2018
108
50
Digital IS for stills would mean a big crop and loss of resolution and field of view.
Why would it be a "big crop?" It's not a big crop on video.It might only be 50 pixels per side or less.

Granted it'd be a SMALL loss of resolution but so is pretty much every other type of processing the camera can do: fixing distortion, fixing chromatic aberration, lowering noise by stacking shots, etc. etc. Every one of those is usually acceptable and can be turned off it not.


Canon uses a heavy crop already for 4K.
How does it matter that 4K is a heavy crop? Even when you're using digital stabilization in 4k, it doesn't actually go outside that crop area for "extra pixels," instead they come from inside the area. Digital stabilization in video is available no matter how much of the sensor you're using.

No one wants to use a 15mm lens to end up with 18mm focal length when the IS is enabled.
That's not how photographers work. Instead, if you wanted 18mm and wanted digital IS (or, say, corrected distortion), you'd shoot 17mm or so. If you want 50mm, you shoot 48mm. It's not like you'd doggedly and stupidly stick to the focal length you want to end up with then whine that you didn't get it when you activate such a mode.
 

blackcoffee17

EOS 80D
Sep 17, 2014
107
77
Why would it be a "big crop?" It's not a big crop on video.It might only be 50 pixels per side or less.

Granted it'd be a SMALL loss of resolution but so is pretty much every other type of processing the camera can do: fixing distortion, fixing chromatic aberration, lowering noise by stacking shots, etc. etc. Every one of those is usually acceptable and can be turned off it not.
I might be wrong but the M50's 4K video adds a visible extra crop when digital IS is enabled. That's more than 50 pixels.
How does it matter that 4K is a heavy crop? Even when you're using digital stabilization in 4k, it doesn't actually go outside that crop area for "extra pixels," instead they come from inside the area. Digital stabilization in video is available no matter how much of the sensor you're using.
I meant in the future when Canon will have full 4K without crop, digital IS crop could be unwanted. I don't see it as a major issue for video tho.
That's not how photographers work. Instead, if you wanted 18mm and wanted digital IS (or, say, corrected distortion), you'd shoot 17mm or so. If you want 50mm, you shoot 48mm. It's not like you'd doggedly and stupidly stick to the focal length you want to end up with then whine that you didn't get it when you activate such a mode
But if your widest lens is 11mm and you need the full wide angle, digital IS would not be very useful.
 

SwissFrank

EOS 80D
Dec 9, 2018
108
50
But if your widest lens is 11mm and you need the full wide angle, digital IS would not be very useful.
Fair enough, but then you'll not be able to use the distortion correction and so on, either. Maybe I'm insane but I'm guessing the majority of photos are taken with narrower lenses than the absolute widest a photographer has access to.