Canon can you make a camera for photographers and not videographers?

GoldWing

Canon EOS 1DXMKII
Oct 19, 2013
105
63
Los Angeles, CA
en.wikipedia.org
How about a Camera for photographers and not videographers?

How about 30MP's staying at 15fps RAW. No sport in the world requires more than 15fps if you know what you're shooting. Nor do BIF or Journalists. Who in this WORLD needs 20fps? If you NEED that buy a movie camera. FACT!!!

We want increased IQ. That's all.

If I want 20fps I'l buy a Frig'n movie camera.

I want my OVF shooting 15fps RAW at 30MP. I'll pay up to $8,000 for that body and another $8,000 for my back-up. The 30MP's will allow the 1DXMKIII to be more well suited for diverse demanding shooting environments. Just because we're sports photographers, Journalists and BIF enthusiasts does not mean we don't want great resolution and IQ. The ability to crop with our prime BIG WHITES we've paid you a fortune for would be nice. It would put out a 30 to 40% better product for the public, our editors and the agencies that pay us for crisp clear shots. 20MP is very 1990's based on today's technology.

SONY and NIKON can do it and even cell phones are so far beyond what I've seen so far in the "Proposed" "Still Photography" capabilities of the MKIII.

It has to have cross-points across my OVF. Straighten up the "Cases" in the User Interface, they are redundant and counter-intuitive. In single-point expanded you need to tighten up the focus so greater weight is placed on the center focal point. Remeber mostly sports shooters are using this in AI-SERVO why does it flop around like a dead bird??? ;) We ALL say the same thing on the sidelines.

Scrap the Movie, Motion Picture GARBAGE. If I want a movie camera I'll buy one that is substantially better than the MKIII at a fraction of the cost.

Canon!!!! I'm a photographer who makes a living taking still pictures. I'm not a videographer. Can you concentrate on photography? Remember us? We're the professional photographers who support CPS, Display our BIG WHITES globally as we shoot sports. We shoot next to your $250,000 broadcast lenses.

If the 1DXMKIII is not for professional photographers vs. videographers PLEASE STOP marketing the product for "professional photographers". We don't shoot High School Sports. If the 1DXMKIII is for amateurs then 20MP - 24MP will suit them fine. it's going to be 2020 and you can't give us 30MP's at 15fps with our OVF? You worked out the kinks with a recall or "Service Advisory" on the 1DX and refined the issues with the Mirror Box with the MKII. Have you devoted so much to videography that you forgot about us "photographers"/

We don't compete with our videography peers as sports photographers or journalists. We don't produce like them or edit like them or deliver like them. Our workflow is apples to oranges. We're professionals not amateurs and still photography for professionals is different than video for professionals. You state the 1DXMKII is for professionals. I don't know a single professional sports videographer for the NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB, Olympics, MLS or the agencies that shows up with an MKII to shoot or broadcast video for games or tether to a truck, uplink to NOC or TOC. I know because I work on those floors and our broadcast people don't do what I do and I don't do what they do.

It seems like those of us who have dedicated our careers to Canon; fought for budgets for Canon and accumulated full kits are getting shoved to the side of the road for videography.

Try hand holding a f/2.8 300 or 400 on the sidelines using an LCD to follow the action. Impossible!! Now try doing it in sunlight... DOUBLE IMPOSSIBLE.

Canon you need to put out a 30MP, 15fps RAW Camera for stills with the MKIII or your crown will lost. SONY and Nikon are ready to see you stumble and they HOPE you do.

I would prefer to stay with Canon but if those with other equipment have an advantage over me to put food on the table.... YOU are forcing us to switch horses.
 

navastronia

EOS RP + 5D Classic
Aug 31, 2018
231
244
Ever since the 5D Mk. II was released, hybrid shooting and shooters are the new reality.

Many photographers (though perhaps not you, yourself) are asked to take both stills and video, or even freelance in both photography and videography separately, like I do, using the same gear for each. I know this is not relevant to you, because as you've said in many threads, you shoot alongside professional video guys and their $250,000 broadcast lenses, but because video from the 1DX Mk. II is good enough for many smaller clients, having video features in the 1D line gives the cameras more value for those of us who shoot both photos and video.

Mostly, I sense your main worry is that Canon is compromising on photo features in order to allow the 1D series to shoot video. I don't think this is true, but if you can show me some evidence, I will happily review it.
 
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Aussie shooter

@brett.guy.photography
Dec 6, 2016
489
496
How about a Camera for photographers and not videographers?

How about 30MP's staying at 15fps RAW. No sport in the world requires more than 15fps if you know what you're shooting. Nor do BIF or Journalists. Who in this WORLD needs 20fps? If you NEED that buy a movie camera. FACT!!!

We want increased IQ. That's all.

If I want 20fps I'l buy a Frig'n movie camera.

I want my OVF shooting 15fps RAW at 30MP. I'll pay up to $8,000 for that body and another $8,000 for my back-up. The 30MP's will allow the 1DXMKIII to be more well suited for diverse demanding shooting environments. Just because we're sports photographers, Journalists and BIF enthusiasts does not mean we don't want great resolution and IQ. The ability to crop with our prime BIG WHITES we've paid you a fortune for would be nice. It would put out a 30 to 40% better product for the public, our editors and the agencies that pay us for crisp clear shots. 20MP is very 1990's based on today's technology.

SONY and NIKON can do it and even cell phones are so far beyond what I've seen so far in the "Proposed" "Still Photography" capabilities of the MKIII.

It has to have cross-points across my OVF. Straighten up the "Cases" in the User Interface, they are redundant and counter-intuitive. In single-point expanded you need to tighten up the focus so greater weight is placed on the center focal point. Remeber mostly sports shooters are using this in AI-SERVO why does it flop around like a dead bird??? ;) We ALL say the same thing on the sidelines.

Scrap the Movie, Motion Picture GARBAGE. If I want a movie camera I'll buy one that is substantially better than the MKIII at a fraction of the cost.

Canon!!!! I'm a photographer who makes a living taking still pictures. I'm not a videographer. Can you concentrate on photography? Remember us? We're the professional photographers who support CPS, Display our BIG WHITES globally as we shoot sports. We shoot next to your $250,000 broadcast lenses.

If the 1DXMKIII is not for professional photographers vs. videographers PLEASE STOP marketing the product for "professional photographers". We don't shoot High School Sports. If the 1DXMKIII is for amateurs then 20MP - 24MP will suit them fine. it's going to be 2020 and you can't give us 30MP's at 15fps with our OVF? You worked out the kinks with a recall or "Service Advisory" on the 1DX and refined the issues with the Mirror Box with the MKII. Have you devoted so much to videography that you forgot about us "photographers"/

We don't compete with our videography peers as sports photographers or journalists. We don't produce like them or edit like them or deliver like them. Our workflow is apples to oranges. We're professionals not amateurs and still photography for professionals is different than video for professionals. You state the 1DXMKII is for professionals. I don't know a single professional sports videographer for the NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB, Olympics, MLS or the agencies that shows up with an MKII to shoot or broadcast video for games or tether to a truck, uplink to NOC or TOC. I know because I work on those floors and our broadcast people don't do what I do and I don't do what they do.

It seems like those of us who have dedicated our careers to Canon; fought for budgets for Canon and accumulated full kits are getting shoved to the side of the road for videography.

Try hand holding a f/2.8 300 or 400 on the sidelines using an LCD to follow the action. Impossible!! Now try doing it in sunlight... DOUBLE IMPOSSIBLE.

Canon you need to put out a 30MP, 15fps RAW Camera for stills with the MKIII or your crown will lost. SONY and Nikon are ready to see you stumble and they HOPE you do.

I would prefer to stay with Canon but if those with other equipment have an advantage over me to put food on the table.... YOU are forcing us to switch horses.
While i do agree with you to a point I dont get how they are forcing you to switch horses. Given what you want there is no other horse to switch to is there? Simple fact is we have to accept that the wannabe videographers are demanding things that us wannabe(in my case not yours) photographers have no need for but end up having to pay for
 
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Joules

EOS RP
Jul 16, 2017
369
288
Hamburg, Germany
Just as a reminder, the 90D has a 32.5 MP sensor and shoots 10 FPS with the OVF as well as 4K with a miniscule amount of crop for best quality or no crop for good quality.

The resolution on the 1DX III will be what Canon thinks the overall market wants. If it comes with a 20 MP sensor, it is not because Canon can't do decent video with a higher resolution sensor, but because the overall market is made up of people who have a different set of requirements than you do. You claim there are cameras from competitors and even smartphones that do what you want so buy one of these - though it would be nice if you could point them out to us for future reference, thanks.

And if it comes out with more than 20 MP, than the rumors we've read were partially wrong. Stranger things have happened.

So, just chill. Writing some rant in Harry Speech is doing you as little good as it does the rest of the forum.
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,178
1,735
Canada
The basic problem is "what the general market wants" and "what a few specialized individuals want".

The mass market gets economies of scale, but to get something very specialized you have to pay a lot more because the market is so small. And when you consider that most DSLRs are designed for stills and video is an add on feature, you really are not going to see very much improvement (if any) to leave out the video features, leaving us with the question "why pay more for less?"
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,617
2,098
How about a Camera for photographers and not videographers?

How about 30MP's staying at 15fps RAW. No sport in the world requires more than 15fps if you know what you're shooting. Nor do BIF or Journalists. Who in this WORLD needs 20fps? If you NEED that buy a movie camera. FACT!!!

We want increased IQ. That's all.

If I want 20fps I'l buy a Frig'n movie camera.

I want my OVF shooting 15fps RAW at 30MP. I'll pay up to $8,000 for that body and another $8,000 for my back-up. The 30MP's will allow the 1DXMKIII to be more well suited for diverse demanding shooting environments. Just because we're sports photographers, Journalists and BIF enthusiasts does not mean we don't want great resolution and IQ. The ability to crop with our prime BIG WHITES we've paid you a fortune for would be nice. It would put out a 30 to 40% better product for the public, our editors and the agencies that pay us for crisp clear shots. 20MP is very 1990's based on today's technology.

SONY and NIKON can do it and even cell phones are so far beyond what I've seen so far in the "Proposed" "Still Photography" capabilities of the MKIII.

It has to have cross-points across my OVF. Straighten up the "Cases" in the User Interface, they are redundant and counter-intuitive. In single-point expanded you need to tighten up the focus so greater weight is placed on the center focal point. Remeber mostly sports shooters are using this in AI-SERVO why does it flop around like a dead bird??? ;) We ALL say the same thing on the sidelines.

Scrap the Movie, Motion Picture GARBAGE. If I want a movie camera I'll buy one that is substantially better than the MKIII at a fraction of the cost.

Canon!!!! I'm a photographer who makes a living taking still pictures. I'm not a videographer. Can you concentrate on photography? Remember us? We're the professional photographers who support CPS, Display our BIG WHITES globally as we shoot sports. We shoot next to your $250,000 broadcast lenses.

If the 1DXMKIII is not for professional photographers vs. videographers PLEASE STOP marketing the product for "professional photographers". We don't shoot High School Sports. If the 1DXMKIII is for amateurs then 20MP - 24MP will suit them fine. it's going to be 2020 and you can't give us 30MP's at 15fps with our OVF? You worked out the kinks with a recall or "Service Advisory" on the 1DX and refined the issues with the Mirror Box with the MKII. Have you devoted so much to videography that you forgot about us "photographers"/

We don't compete with our videography peers as sports photographers or journalists. We don't produce like them or edit like them or deliver like them. Our workflow is apples to oranges. We're professionals not amateurs and still photography for professionals is different than video for professionals. You state the 1DXMKII is for professionals. I don't know a single professional sports videographer for the NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB, Olympics, MLS or the agencies that shows up with an MKII to shoot or broadcast video for games or tether to a truck, uplink to NOC or TOC. I know because I work on those floors and our broadcast people don't do what I do and I don't do what they do.

It seems like those of us who have dedicated our careers to Canon; fought for budgets for Canon and accumulated full kits are getting shoved to the side of the road for videography.

Try hand holding a f/2.8 300 or 400 on the sidelines using an LCD to follow the action. Impossible!! Now try doing it in sunlight... DOUBLE IMPOSSIBLE.

Canon you need to put out a 30MP, 15fps RAW Camera for stills with the MKIII or your crown will lost. SONY and Nikon are ready to see you stumble and they HOPE you do.

I would prefer to stay with Canon but if those with other equipment have an advantage over me to put food on the table.... YOU are forcing us to switch horses.
Nice rant. I especially liked the part where if you need 15 fps you’re a competent professional but if you need 16 fps you don’t know what you’re doing. I guess we’re all lucky that Canon doesn’t give a damn what you personally want.

So sad that you’re being forced to switch to a camera that was designed only for photography and not videography. No compromises, right? Enjoy your Nikon Df. Bye.
 

GoldWing

Canon EOS 1DXMKII
Oct 19, 2013
105
63
Los Angeles, CA
en.wikipedia.org
Just as a reminder, the 90D has a 32.5 MP sensor and shoots 10 FPS with the OVF as well as 4K with a miniscule amount of crop for best quality or no crop for good quality.

The resolution on the 1DX III will be what Canon thinks the overall market wants. If it comes with a 20 MP sensor, it is not because Canon can't do decent video with a higher resolution sensor, but because the overall market is made up of people who have a different set of requirements than you do. You claim there are cameras from competitors and even smartphones that do what you want so buy one of these - though it would be nice if you could point them out to us for future reference, thanks.

And if it comes out with more than 20 MP, than the rumors we've read were partially wrong. Stranger things have happened.

So, just chill. Writing some rant in Harry Speech is doing you as little good as it does the rest of the forum.
"the overall market is made up of people who have a different set of requirements than you do." Then don't claim the camera is for professionals! It's just marketing hype now for rubes. It's like selling someone a "NY Yankee Jaket" and the guy wearing it walks around and thinks people think he's a ballplayer.

NO pro needs 20fps. But sure as heck will take 30MP's with enhanced IQ and resolution. That's just a fact.

If Canon offered two options for OVF at 20fps at 22MP's or 15fps at 30MP's which one do you think REAL professionals would pick?

None of this makes sense and it's frustrating to read arguments that make no sense at all, It's 2020 not 1990 and 30MP's is a reality if Canon opts not to do it. SONY or Nikon or Fuji or Pentax will. I know for sure that Nikon and SONY will jump all over this if Canon puts out a camera that is obsolete from day 1 for still photographers. The D6 could be the end of Canon's BIG WHITE gardens on the sidelines.....
 

YuengLinger

EOS 5D MK IV
Dec 20, 2012
2,627
746
Southeastern USA
In my experience, rubbing shoulders with photojournalists, none of them would have the time to get worked up about ridiculous little points in the specs. The ones I've known for over 30 years are truly brand agnostic. They have dedicated their careers to getting the shot, not to a camera company!

Having video features in the 5D or 1D series has held nobody back. Arguably the added video features have added little to the price of the bodies, as camera companies can sell more units with the extra marketing points. If photojournalists can't get great shots with current dSLR's and mirrorless, you name the brand, then they simply aren't photojournalists. They are self-deluded hobbyists or, worse, ineffectual "influencers."

Furthermore, a good case can be made that still photography is becoming so rare in journalism as to make a dedicated camera something few freelancers or companies would buy. Print is almost dead, and while the Web is saturated with images, having video as part of stories seems to be a requirement. So why wouldn't a professional photographer of any sort not want the option to capture some high quality, brief video-clips with ONE camera?!?
 
Last edited:

unfocused

EOS 1D MK II
Jul 20, 2010
5,029
1,403
66
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
I'm getting more than a bit tired of this arrogant b.s. Since when does anyone get to define what a professional is and what a professional needs or doesn't need?

There are one heck of a lot more professional sports photographers shooting high school and small college sports than are shooting on the sidelines of professional games. And, honestly, just because you happen to be shooting some professional sports doesn't make you a better photographer. It's just the luck of the draw and showing a bit of humility would be prudent.

I've met and know of plenty of excellent photographers working on small to midsize newspapers or working the sidelines of small college sporting events and their work is every bit as good as those shooting the professional events. In fact, they (we) have to deliver high quality images under much more challenging conditions and without any support network or backup.

If Canon had to rely solely on the tiny group of photographers who shoot professional sporting events the company wouldn't last a week, so let's show a little appreciation for all the small market professionals and high spending amateurs who make it possible for Canon to produce the cameras and lenses you use.

Your constant harping on video features makes me think you are afraid. Which is very understandable. More and more of the people paying for photographers are expecting those photographers to be able to shoot both video and stills.

Yes, I would like more resolution. I agree that 30 mp would be a sweet spot. I'd be fine with a 1Dx III that uses the same sensor as the 5DIV, although I'd also like better high ISO performance, because unlike you, I'm shooting in venues that don't have lights designed for broadcast. Yes, I don't see much point in 20 fps. But, I won't complain if Canon ups the fps a bit, it isn't going to hurt me and it may help my chances of catching a batter hitting the ball. Same with video features. I don't need them, but it isn't hurting me to have them on the camera. And, yeah, I agree that autofocus needs improvement. But that's the main thing Canon is promising in the 1Dx III.

Bottom line though is this -- quit with the rants and develop a little humility. All your posts seem to be a pathetic attempt to prove how superior you are. That's getting old and it overshadows the valid points you are making.
 

Joules

EOS RP
Jul 16, 2017
369
288
Hamburg, Germany
"the overall market is made up of people who have a different set of requirements than you do." Then don't claim the camera is for professionals! It's just marketing hype now for rubes.
If any word deserves a "Canon Rumors word of 2019" award it would be pro / professional. People can shoot with a 1 series body professionally, they can do it with a Rebel as well ,as long as they are getting paid to do it. That applies to images as and video, and it's only just one definition of the term. But since there are others, it's a word that you apparently just slap around to your liking, independent if you are Canon or a CR Forum poster.

30MP's is a reality if Canon opts not to do it. SONY or Nikon or Fuji or Pentax will. I know for sure that Nikon and SONY will jump all over this if Canon puts out a camera that is obsolete from day 1 for still photographers. The D6 could be the end hzof Canon's BIG WHITE gardens on the sidelines.....
We'll, Sony went with 24 MP 20 FPS for their 1D competitor, so you don't have to fear much from them ;)
 

GoldWing

Canon EOS 1DXMKII
Oct 19, 2013
105
63
Los Angeles, CA
en.wikipedia.org
If any word deserves a "Canon Rumors word of 2019" award it would be pro / professional. People can shoot with a 1 series body professionally, they can do it with a Rebel as well ,as long as they are getting paid to do it. That applies to images as and video, and it's only just one definition of the term. But since there are others, it's a word that you apparently just slap around to your liking, independent if you are Canon or a CR Forum poster.


We'll, Sony went with 24 MP 20 FPS for their 1D competitor, so you don't have to fear much from them ;)
SONY will be releasing another camera soon. Make fun of them "we do" but they are "nipping" at Canon from a technology and a glass perspective now. I would not sell them short. If Canon can't out engineer SONY, I understand, as SONY makes some of the best sensors in the world.
 

YuengLinger

EOS 5D MK IV
Dec 20, 2012
2,627
746
Southeastern USA
SONY will be releasing another camera soon. Make fun of them "we do" but they are "nipping" at Canon from a technology and a glass perspective now. I would not sell them short. If Canon can't out engineer SONY, I understand, as SONY makes some of the best sensors in the world.
"Make fun of them 'we do..' ." Thank you, Yoda, for revealing your true agenda here by capitalizing SONY over and over. Sly as a hen in a fox house.
 

Graphic.Artifacts

EOS 7D MK II
Aug 1, 2017
465
268
So if Canon can't so something that nobody has ever done your going to switch to another company that can't do it either? :whistle:

FYI - video is what is driving data rates. If Canon can make a sensor that can read 30MP raws 15 times a second it will be the result of the investment they have made in Cinema technology.
 

CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D SR
Jan 28, 2015
4,155
1,718
Irving, Texas
Canon reads this forum and listens to individual photographers on a rant. Not.

Canon doesn't market to what is in the most demand based on market research. Yes they do.

Don't like video features? Then just don't turn them on. Don't use them. Simple. :rolleyes: Besides, if you are as big time show as you claim, what's a few extra bucks?

The more I read this stuff the more respect I have for the many professionals living hand to mouth on a $30k (or less) per year paycheck after expenses. At least they know the meaning of thankfulness and humility when something good comes their way. Not bitter.

This rant is no different than your last. Somebody is scared.

BTW: I parked next to a $1,000,000 motor home yesterday. Just wrote a rant on a Hyundai forum because that gives me more clout. How you standing next to a $250,000 broadcast lens means anything at all is a mystery. It ain't yours. Neither is the stadium or the team. Nobody here cares what anyone else does for a living. Unimpressed.

If you knew what you were doing you wouldn't need to crop so much. Sarcasm. #Not_a_pro (More sarcasm)
 
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Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,178
1,735
Canada
In my experience, rubbing shoulders with photojournalists, none of them would have the time to get worked up about ridiculous little points in the specs. The ones I've known for over 30 years are truly brand agnostic. They have dedicated their careers to getting the shot, not to a camera company!

Having video features in the 5D or 1D series has held nobody back. Arguably the added video features have added little to the price of the bodies, as camera companies can sell more units with the extra marketing points. If photojournalists can't get great shots with current dSLR's and mirrorless, you name the brand, then they simply aren't photojournalists. They are self-deluded hobbyists or, worse, ineffectual "influencers."

Furthermore, a good case can be made that still photography is becoming so rare in journalism as to make a dedicated camera something few freelancers or companies would buy. Print is almost dead, and while the Web is saturated with images, having video as part of stories seems to be a requirement. So why wouldn't a professional photographer of any sort not want the option to capture some high quality, brief video-clips with ONE camera?!?
Agreed.

a true professional uses the right tool for the job and budget. <EDIT>When dealing with consumer grade cameras (everything up to and including 1 series), </EDIT>there is no such thing as a professional camera.
 
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GoldWing

Canon EOS 1DXMKII
Oct 19, 2013
105
63
Los Angeles, CA
en.wikipedia.org
So if Canon can't so do something that nobody has ever done your you're going to switch to another company that can't do it either? :whistle:

FYI - video is what is driving data rates. If Canon can make a sensor that can read 30MP raws 15 times a second it will be the result of the investment they have made in Cinema technology.
  1. "Who" said no one else has ever done it? Or replicate it based on 2020 Technology
  2. Who says Canon Can't do it?
  3. Who says SONY can't do it?
  4. Who says Nikon can't do it?
  5. Who says RED can't do it?
  6. When using an OVF with a Mirror Box, please expand on the Video Technology that makes this possible today
  7. Please also list each mirrorless platform on the market today that can capture stills at 30MP's or above