Canon, Canon Canon….. Please help the video stars

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,139
409
To be honest, I really want this EOS-R for photography, but I'm not going to buy one because it's another piece of equipment that can't double in video, so I would most often leave it at home.
This is what's happening with me. I would really like a FF backup to my 5Ds that can handle video. I've passed on the R and now the RP. I really don't like the idea of dealing with Sony's UI or non-native lens adapters, plus Sony bodies are useless in poor weather. But when is Canon going to deliver decent video specs?

Dynamic range I could care less about, and I shoot scenes (including occasional real estate interiors) that should put me in the category of caring greatly about it. I know what I can do with the 5Ds sensor, I know how narrow the DR band actually is between the 5Ds and Sony sensors, and I know how to handle the scenes that exceed any sensor's DR.

But video...the other guys are doing oversampled 4k footage (generally 6k-to-4k) that looks beautiful. They do this with their best AF modes enabled and with no stupid restrictions on frame rates. And with Sony they do this in FF mode for low light situations.

The more I think about it, the more I wish Canon had used the 1DX2 sensor in the R, the RP, or both. Until they get their readout speeds figured out they need a solid FF video camera.
 
Reactions: Kharan and Etienne

s66

-
Jan 9, 2018
18
7
I honestly don't get why those who only do video don't buy a video camera - seems that would do what they want.
 

s66

-
Jan 9, 2018
18
7
FWIW: there's likely all sorts of patents and license fees associsted with video that will drive up costs even if they already know how to make the software (or have done so). Those licenses can cost ridiculous amounts of money that will cost all the rest who never shoot video too.
 

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,139
409
I honestly don't get why those who only do video don't buy a video camera - seems that would do what they want.
Quite obviously because the competition is providing cameras that can do both well. And EF glass owners want that to.

FWIW: there's likely all sorts of patents and license fees associsted with video that will drive up costs even if they already know how to make the software (or have done so). Those licenses can cost ridiculous amounts of money that will cost all the rest who never shoot video too.
I'm not sure what you think those licenses might be, but Canon would already be paying them to put in the crippled video we've got.
 

bokehmon22

EOS RP
Oct 31, 2016
329
169
In my 4 years as a pro photographer a shoot with 6d and 5d3.
I never touch the video function for the camera...
Ok mabey one time...accidentallly.

But...in 2019...when competition has so much to offer....not putting 24/25/30/60 and so on in every camera and to have superb quality on 1080...you must have belly...or be stupid.
If you have belly...that meens that you have best sensor on market (eitch it isn't) best af sustem... And so on with 1st in mind photografy... And shure... In the price range...
But wheit....canon does not have belly... Because it's not the greatest on the market on photography more specific...including apsc also
So... The first variant with belly...not the case here.... Witch meens that... Beeing stupit is the only thing left.

Eaven if i don't make video... I can say this... 750d frim nikon... It's miles away better then 5d3 or 6d...in photography...
I don't have one...and i regret now that wasn't buy first a 610d
Canon simply don't listen...they have a beautifull ecosistem...i can admit that...but the main tool to drive the ecosistem it's not what we want and need.

A lot of canon shoothers has left canon...for fuji and sony.... Not the same for nikon...

So... In 2019...not having 24/25/30/60/120 in 1080 at a high quality... It is a shame... And a proof that someone... Can and it does...piss on us.

Shame cancrap...just bring something good on the table to give you my money again.
Like you, I rarely touch the video option on my 5D IV. It isn't about wanting the best video features but somewhat usable video option in 2019. This just tell me Canon is still run by accountants. There is no free lunch. They could offer better video features but that would take out some EOS R sale.

It's more than wanting features, but values for the money. If the Canon EOS R has dual card slot even if they charge a little more, it would eat into Canon 5D IV even though it's more expensive than the competitions. They are competing against them self mostly.

I wonder what other Canon EOS R Pro features will be gimped. It will likely be expensive compared to the competition. Although Canon EOS RF lenses are nice and expensive, I just can't buy into the RF system. If Panasonic S1 or Sony A7RIV/A9II have what I need vs EOS R Pro, I will leave Canon too.
 
Reactions: ashmadux

KrisK

EOS T7i
Jun 8, 2013
54
4
I’m not big on 4K, but understand the appeal. Same with 4K 60p. And 120 FPS.

But why is 24p so important? I get that it’s the standard FPS for cinema, but why is it so desired by the vlog crowd? Just curious.
 

cpreston

EOS T7i
Mar 22, 2014
78
22
It seems clear that the ef-s crop for the RP is using a crop of the FHD 1080p output to create the 720p video file. The ef-s crop for the EOS-R is actually a debayered version of the 4K output. The reasoning for the lack of 1080p crop in the RP may actually be due to processor limitations. Or the team just didn’t feel like writing and testing the software.
The lack of 24p is probably deliberate dumbing down by Canon since it takes more skill to get decent looking handheld footage at 24p than at 30p.
 
Reactions: Kharan

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,139
409
This just tell me Canon is still run by accountants. There is no free lunch. They could offer better video features but that would take out some EOS R sale.
They have a silicon problem. If it was just accountants I don't think they would disable DPAF in 4k on the RP. For that matter I don't think the 5D IV would have shipped with cropped 4k, and they would be doing oversampled 1080p in that body.

I don't know who made the idiotic decision not to include 1080 24p or 1080 cropped though.
 
Reactions: Kharan and -pekr-

bokehmon22

EOS RP
Oct 31, 2016
329
169
They have a silicon problem. If it was just accountants I don't think they would disable DPAF in 4k on the RP. For that matter I don't think the 5D IV would have shipped with cropped 4k, and they would be doing oversampled 1080p in that body.

I don't know who made the idiotic decision not to include 1080 24p or 1080 cropped though.
You might be right. This may be why explain why they can't get better eyeAF performance, better sensor with better ISO & DR. This may explain why it's taking longer for them to make EOS R Pro and also incorporating better 4K and IBIS.

They should be able to 1080 24p and uncropped 1080. It's mostly a marketing team decision.
 

ashmadux

Art Director, Visual Artist, Freelance Photography
Jul 28, 2011
388
5
New Yawk
photography.ashworld.com
I just don't get Canon at all any more. Cell phones are eating our lunch so lets take features out of our cameras that cost nothing to include? If they hadn't taken such a vindictive approach to their video features here they had a chance to step on the competitions air hose. But they blew that as well. As it is, I don't see who the target audience is either on the stills side or the video side for this Frankenstien camera.
Couldn't agree more. They omitted features on this camera that exist in the baby mirrorless version.

I saw how cut down the video specs are, and still no dpaf in 4k..well no thanks. No longer plan to buy, ill make due with a m50 and cut my video teeth on that.

This reduce features nonsense has become canon's disease, adn we are all paying for it. With the market shrinking, instead of going for the dollars, they would pass on guaranteed money just to protect video cameras that none of this segment will buy. Insane, stupid, and modern canon.

Lastly, the features in phones are so beyond what we can do in cameras...+ more flexible software...and THIS is canons approach. wow.
 
Reactions: Etienne

analoggrotto

EOS T7i
Aug 27, 2016
60
22
We can all agree; the RF launch is peculiarly out of sync. Superlative lenses ready for press duty on top of compact sub-pro bodies just seems strange. Its as if they are preparing the stage frantically for something incredible to truly harness the 28-70 F2 and 50 F1.2. Some more F1.8s and a pancake or 2 would have made sense for the R and RP.

I hope the 5D replacement is the Double R. Double Digics, Double Card Slots, Double Dials, Double ISO, Double the Money!
 
Reactions: Bennymiata
May 30, 2017
3
0
Canon doesn't even release C100 mark iii, XC20 or 90D. You can see they just don't want to hurt their high end cinema camera sale.
I have XF400. It is very great.
I am 100% sure Canon knows that even it is 1 inch sensor but it is interchangeable lens camera. People will not buy high end camera.
For Canon eye, they still don't want 8000usd C200 to get 10bit 4.2.2.
On the other hand, XF705 includes 10bit 4.2.2 h.265 every newest Canon code because it is fix lens camera.

I can feel Canon thinks they made a mistake when Eos R includes 10bit 4.2.2 They can't do anything when Z6 has.

So Nikon will have prores raw. I am sure Canon can't respond.

Canon just made a mistake to have Cinema Line.
1DC to C700 FF.
They just see interchangeable lena 4k = over 10000 USD.
C200 is their C100 mark iii but they don't want to sell 5000-6000 usd. So they add Raw light to pretend C200 to set 8000usd.

Really sad.
 

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,139
409
You might be right. This may be why explain why they can't get better eyeAF performance, better sensor with better ISO & DR.
Their ISO is competitive across the board, and their DR is competitive on models with on-chip ADCs such as the 5D IV. Those aren't readout speed issues.

But video relies on fast, power/thermal efficient readout.

They should be able to 1080 24p and uncropped 1080. It's mostly a marketing team decision.
Agreed. They should fix this in firmware.
 

cpreston

EOS T7i
Mar 22, 2014
78
22
I’m not big on 4K, but understand the appeal. Same with 4K 60p. And 120 FPS.

But why is 24p so important? I get that it’s the standard FPS for cinema, but why is it so desired by the vlog crowd? Just curious.
From a purely rational standpoint, nobody wants to watch 4K, 24p, digitally stabilized footage of vlogger talking into a camera while they are walking around. But people do it. And somehow the audience manages to contain their nausea while watching it.

Canon has decided to force people into 30p. Apple also doesn't offer 24p in their camera app. I'm guessing the lack of 24p is a marketing decision rather than a tech decision. The number of people who would actually want to use this camera to shoot 24p footage is extremely low, even if it had a 24p option.
 

flip314

EOS 80D
Sep 26, 2018
103
104
As for 4k: it's clear that Canon has a sensor readout speed issue even with the latest 5D IV sensor architecture. That's what's killing them on FF 4k, and 4k + DPAF at any crop on lower end sensors (FF or APS-C). They're probably still working on replacement sensors that can handle the required video readout speeds across the line.
I'm starting to suspect the same thing. With all the crap the R took for its video limitations and lack of pro features, could you imagine what they'd get for a 5D IV replacement that still had the same limitations? They'd be crucified for a "pro" body with so many sensor limitations at a time when Sony seems to have already mostly figured this stuff out (down to some thermal issues). The DR of the 5D IV sensor may also play into it (it's not horrible, but still behind sony)

As someone who thinks most of the criticism against the entire R line is overblown, I think it's clear that Canon wants to get its first pro mirrorless correct the first time. Just based on product development time, they must already pretty far into their development cycle already if they want to release it in the next 12 months, but we have no visibility. Releasing the R/RP in the meantime gets them products in the markets, gets them some feedback, and buys them time to complete the next generation of sensor development (and possible IBIS implementations/whatever you think Canon has up their sleeves).
 

CaMeRa QuEsT

I'm New Here
Sep 12, 2016
16
9
The best Canon EOS digital camera you can buy is the newest, highest level model that has a fully functional Magic Lantern port available, allowing you to fully de-cripple it!
 
Reactions: jvillain

crazyrunner33

EOS RP
Nov 4, 2011
229
69
I honestly don't get why those who only do video don't buy a video camera - seems that would do what they want.
In or marketing department we have a few people dedicated to video. While they have a lot of nice cameras, they always gravitate towards the DSLR body. Why? Because it's small and comfortable to hold. We can get a steady shot without fatigue.

For a stable shot without a gimbal or anything else, we just use the IBIS and OSS combination with our next strap. Hold the camera straight out with tension against our neck strap. Doing this with a slow hip and knee movement and we can even manipulate a small slider shot without using stabilization in post. When we need to, these small cameras also easily slap onto a gimbal.

At the end of the day, why would we want to give up this mobility that can still achieve an incredible image? The expensive and bulky dedicated video cameras are just not as convenient.
 
Reactions: Kharan

Talys

Canon 6DII
Feb 16, 2017
2,044
312
Vancouver, BC
As someone who thinks most of the criticism against the entire R line is overblown, I think it's clear that Canon wants to get its first pro mirrorless correct the first time. Just based on product development time, they must already pretty far into their development cycle already if they want to release it in the next 12 months, but we have no visibility. Releasing the R/RP in the meantime gets them products in the markets, gets them some feedback, and buys them time to complete the next generation of sensor development (and possible IBIS implementations/whatever you think Canon has up their sleeves).
Besides, if "Pro" means a 1D class -- and priced -- camera, they'll sell way, way more RP's than R Pro's.
 

degos

EOS 80D
Mar 20, 2015
133
66
What are you protecting, Canon? You want this to be the perfect camera for APS-C DSLR users to migrate over to full-frame
Maybe they don't, perhaps you are projecting what you think Canon want.

Certainly a 4000D user would look askance at a $1299 camera versus the $400 he paid for body + kit. That's car money!

A 7D2 user will laugh at the pitiful framerate and lower pixel density.