Canon EF 400mm f/4 DO IS II USM

AlanF

5DSR
Aug 16, 2012
4,864
1,516
Great shot Grant. There's a lot to be said for 560/600 on FF and 400 on APS-C for birds in flight.
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
5,965
770
Alberta, Canada
I typically post in the bird thread but why not here since it's 400 DO II X1.4 III.
1/2000 F8 ISO 25000 1DX2 I second after this shot he took off which is why I had 1/2000.

Typically they climb to the top before leaving.

Jack
 

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Eldar

EOS 5D MK IV
Jan 14, 2013
3,247
0
www.flickr.com
Jack Douglas said:
I typically post in the bird thread but why not here since it's 400 DO II X1.4 III.
1/2000 F8 ISO 25000 1DX2 I second after this shot he took off which is why I had 1/2000.

Typically they climb to the top before leaving.

Jack
Seems to me you have your problem sorted Jack. And I am also glad to see that you pushed it all the way to ISO25000. From previous posts, I got the feeling you didn't like going anywhere near those levels. Very nice result! How did you handle noise reduction?

Personally I have never been able to get a usable picture of this bird, whereas you seem to have them around you like gulls ;)
 

Grant Atkinson

EOS 80D
Jan 6, 2014
177
2
Eldar said:
Jack Douglas said:
I typically post in the bird thread but why not here since it's 400 DO II X1.4 III.
1/2000 F8 ISO 25000 1DX2 I second after this shot he took off which is why I had 1/2000.

Typically they climb to the top before leaving.

Jack
Seems to me you have your problem sorted Jack. And I am also glad to see that you pushed it all the way to ISO25000. From previous posts, I got the feeling you didn't like going anywhere near those levels. Very nice result! How did you handle noise reduction?

Personally I have never been able to get a usable picture of this bird, whereas you seem to have them around you like gulls ;)
Nice capture Jack, and I agree with Eldar, you did well here. I am even more envious of you than Eldar, I have not even managed to lay eyes on a pileated woodpecker in the wild!
 

AlanF

5DSR
Aug 16, 2012
4,864
1,516
Eldar said:
Jack Douglas said:
I typically post in the bird thread but why not here since it's 400 DO II X1.4 III.
1/2000 F8 ISO 25000 1DX2 I second after this shot he took off which is why I had 1/2000.

Typically they climb to the top before leaving.

Jack
Seems to me you have your problem sorted Jack. And I am also glad to see that you pushed it all the way to ISO25000. From previous posts, I got the feeling you didn't like going anywhere near those levels. Very nice result! How did you handle noise reduction?

Personally I have never been able to get a usable picture of this bird, whereas you seem to have them around you like gulls ;)
Jack, according to the EXIF, the iso was 2500 not 25000! I was astounded at the low level of noise and had to check. And I see that you had dropped to 560mm. How does your lens at 560mm compare with your 300/2.8 at 600mm?

Aperture Value: 6
Color Space: sRGB
Components Configuration: 1, 2, 3, 0
Date Time Digitized: 29 Apr 2017, 13:44:10
Date Time Original: 29 Apr 2017, 13:44:10
Exif Version: 2.2.1
Exposure Bias Value: 0
Exposure Mode: Manual exposure
Exposure Program: Manual
Exposure Time: 1/2000
Flash: Off, did not fire
FlashPix Version: 1.0
FNumber: 8
Focal Length: 560
ISO Speed Ratings: 2,500
 

Grant Atkinson

EOS 80D
Jan 6, 2014
177
2
AlanF said:
Eldar said:
Jack Douglas said:
I typically post in the bird thread but why not here since it's 400 DO II X1.4 III.
1/2000 F8 ISO 25000 1DX2 I second after this shot he took off which is why I had 1/2000.

Typically they climb to the top before leaving.

Jack
Seems to me you have your problem sorted Jack. And I am also glad to see that you pushed it all the way to ISO25000. From previous posts, I got the feeling you didn't like going anywhere near those levels. Very nice result! How did you handle noise reduction?

Personally I have never been able to get a usable picture of this bird, whereas you seem to have them around you like gulls ;)
Jack, according to the EXIF, the iso was 2500 not 25000! I was astounded at the low level of noise and had to check. And I see that you had dropped to 560mm. How does your lens at 560mm compare with your 300/2.8 at 600mm?

Aperture Value: 6
Color Space: sRGB
Components Configuration: 1, 2, 3, 0
Date Time Digitized: 29 Apr 2017, 13:44:10
Date Time Original: 29 Apr 2017, 13:44:10
Exif Version: 2.2.1
Exposure Bias Value: 0
Exposure Mode: Manual exposure
Exposure Program: Manual
Exposure Time: 1/2000
Flash: Off, did not fire
FlashPix Version: 1.0
FNumber: 8
Focal Length: 560
ISO Speed Ratings: 2,500
Good job on figuring out the iso Alan :)..
 

Mikehit

EOS 5D MK IV
Jul 28, 2015
3,160
336
Grant Atkinson said:
Hi Mike, so I have tried to use my 400DO with 2x extender on two different trips for BIF, but my keeper rate was so low of properly sharp images that I chose to not do it any more, because I don't want to miss a shot that may be important to me. That was with the 1DX, even if I was able to keep the AF point on or close to the target. So I use the 2x for static or slow-moving subjects. I know there are highly skilled photographers like Arash H who are using the combination successfully so I might need to work on my own skills more. I use the EF 400 DO ii a lot of time with a 1.4x extender attached, and with that combination, my wife and my 1DX bodies deliver a higher keeper rate of birds in flight, than when I try the same with my 5Dmk4, or 7Dmk2. Whether it is down to pixel pitch or AF or both I am not certain. The keeper rate with the 1dx and 1.4x extender varies between about 20 percent right up to 80 percent, depending on the birds speed, the angle the bird is flying across, or toward the sensor, angle of sun, power of sun, and background structure, plus my own tracking skill or lack of it. Birds in flight also range in size from a kingfisher or hummingbird all the way up to vultures and pelicans, and they are not all equally hard or easy to shoot for me. Typically use Single AF Pt or else Af Expansion (One plus 4Pt) In comparison, when I use the 5d4 with this same combination, keeper rate falls way off for me to around zero to 30 percent. Static or slow-moving subjects the 5D4 does great. I have found the 7D2 to be more similar to the 5Dmk4 when using extenders but each user has their own scenarios, as well as what we find acceptable or not in terms of sharpness. So for now I stick to the 1DX (or 1DX mk2) whenever I am using extenders. We own an EF 500L f4 IS ii which is a better lens for birds that are far away or small in the frame than our EF 400 f4 DO IS ii with a 1.4x extender but the 500 is quite bulky and much harder to travel with. So I give up some of that superior performance with the bare EF 500 but benefit from an easier combination (EF 400 plus 1.4x) to manage and to travel with on airlines.
I was also hoping that I could leave the 1DX at home for some of my photographic trips because of its weight in my bag, airline restrictions, plus the heavy charger, batteries etc but anytime I know I will be using extenders I find it essential. If I leave off the extenders and am working with bare lenses then all three bodies, the 7d2, 5d4 and 1dx offer similarly good AF performance :)
Cheers
Grant
Thankyou Grant.
Your comments about preferring the 1Dx(2) with extenders is the main point I am mulling over.
Regards the buffer I am also upgrading my memory cards to the latest UDMA 7 and hoping that will improve things when shooting bursts.
 

Grant Atkinson

EOS 80D
Jan 6, 2014
177
2
[/quote]

Thankyou Grant.
Your comments about preferring the 1Dx(2) with extenders is the main point I am mulling over.
Regards the buffer I am also upgrading my memory cards to the latest UDMA 7 and hoping that will improve things when shooting bursts.
[/quote]

Hi Mike, so if I recall I get about 32 shots approximately in a burst at iso 400 on the 7Dmk2 (depending on brightness and structure of the image which impacts the megabyte count) and it keeps shooting when full at 2-3 shots per second at least, with a Sandisk 160mb/sec UDMA 7 card..
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
5,965
770
Alberta, Canada
Thanks for the complements guys.

Alan perhaps in a former life you were an eagle (eyes). And to top it off I took some time in NIK playing with the selective NR. It was a typo of course, and sorry Eldar I haven't completely changed my ways and still prefer to not go over ISO 4000. However, if I don't need to crop I certainly will.

Grant, that woodpecker or friends of his visit every week and two years ago Daddy came with a son and daughter right when I was waiting in my barn observatory with my 300 2.8. I had trouble getting shots I was so shaky!

Here's the pair with the 400 X1.4 this winter.

Jack
 

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Grant Atkinson

EOS 80D
Jan 6, 2014
177
2
Jack Douglas said:
Thanks for the complements guys.

Alan perhaps in a former life you were an eagle (eyes). And to top it off I took some time in NIK playing with the selective NR. It was a typo of course, and sorry Eldar I haven't completely changed my ways and still prefer to not go over ISO 4000. However, if I don't need to crop I certainly will.

Grant, that woodpecker or friends of his visit every week and two years ago Daddy came with a son and daughter right when I was waiting in my barn observatory with my 300 2.8. I had trouble getting shots I was so shaky!

Here's the pair with the 400 X1.4 this winter.

Jack
Thanks for sharing that photo Jack, such charismatic birds and I enjoy how you know their behaviour so well. :)
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
5,965
770
Alberta, Canada
Grant Atkinson said:
Jack Douglas said:
Thanks for the complements guys.

Alan perhaps in a former life you were an eagle (eyes). And to top it off I took some time in NIK playing with the selective NR. It was a typo of course, and sorry Eldar I haven't completely changed my ways and still prefer to not go over ISO 4000. However, if I don't need to crop I certainly will.

Grant, that woodpecker or friends of his visit every week and two years ago Daddy came with a son and daughter right when I was waiting in my barn observatory with my 300 2.8. I had trouble getting shots I was so shaky!

Here's the pair with the 400 X1.4 this winter.

Jack
Thanks for sharing that photo Jack, such charismatic birds and I enjoy how you know their behaviour so well. :)
Grant, just for you I'll contravene the rules and post this 300 lens shot I posted a couple years ago in the birds thread (not sure if you were following that thread). This was such a treat. The one year one guy was getting so tame I walked carefully up to withing 10 feet. Of course I feed them. ;)

I'm pretty sure the lower bird is the daughter based on eye color and fuzzy closer to the lower beak area, also the young have shorter beaks. We don't have many trees that I imagine are big enough for them to nest in and I've looked in vain for nests but obviously within a few miles of me they must exist.

Jack
 

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Jopa

EOS 6D MK II
Dec 11, 2015
1,056
0
Super cool shot Jack!
Are they feeding or eating each other? Just kidding... :)
 

Grant Atkinson

EOS 80D
Jan 6, 2014
177
2
[/quote] Grant, just for you I'll contravene the rules and post this 300 lens shot I posted a couple years ago in the birds thread (not sure if you were following that thread). This was such a treat. The one year one guy was getting so tame I walked carefully up to withing 10 feet. Of course I feed them. ;)

I'm pretty sure the lower bird is the daughter based on eye color and fuzzy closer to the lower beak area, also the young have shorter beaks. We don't have many trees that I imagine are big enough for them to nest in and I've looked in vain for nests but obviously within a few miles of me they must exist.

Jack
[/quote]
Thanks sharing that one too Jack and I never saw it in an earlier thread. Great to be able to witness interaction like that food pass! If you never provided food, you would never see them I am sure. I also saw on your NG Your Shots pages that you have some nice shots of flickers and downy woodpeckers...

And to add my own experience to give another opinion on Alans question, I find the EF 400DO f4 IS ii with the 1.4x EF iii extender to focus faster and more accurately, and also give slightly better image quality than the EF 300f2.8L IS ii and 2x extender...will be interesting to hear Jack and others opinion.
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
5,965
770
Alberta, Canada
Alan, I honestly never used the 300 X2 on the 1DX2, I just put it away in its case. ;) Not sure why but I think it had to do with how busy I've been with you guessed it, my tiling job. :mad:

With the 6D, 300 X2 was awful unless you had pre-focused, then it would snap. I did post a fair number of eagle BIF shots last year that were 300 X2 with the 1D4 and it was a little better but not great. I'm guessing Grant is right. I wanted 800 so the 300 got stored. I must say 400 X2 is very snappy but I don't have a good reference to go by.

Now, Alan what's your opinion?

In case anyone is interested here is some commentary from Canon Canada:

Thank you for your E-mail inquiry.

I do not have the numbers for the acquisition time but this is definitely depending of the quantity of light that is hitting the AF sensor and the position of the chosen AF point. .I have attached an image of the AF Sensor of the EOS 1D X Mark II. Imagine that light is hitting this sensor coming as a cone of light with diameter according to the aperture. The smaller the aperture, the smaller the cone and less sensors will get the information about distance. The one in center are expose more to the light and are also more sensitive. This is why the AF is more precise using the central point. This is also explaining the restriction of the AF points available when aperture is getting smaller.


So, to answer to your questions, one by one
1. Is it predictive in anticipating where the bird is likely to be?
Yes, The AI Servo is a predictive algorithm. As any algorithm, it is not perfect. You can read more about the AI SERVO in this guide.
This is the AF Guide for the old 1D X. From the AI Servo point of view it is the same as the one in 1D X Mark II
http://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2012/1dx_guidebook.shtml

2. Is it possible for you to comment on the AF acquisition speed number number relative to the 1DX2 and perhaps provide some sample shooting situation/s where it is unreasonable to expect AF to keep up?
No. this kind of details are not available. It is unreasonable to expect AF to keep up in low light situations (-1EV, -2 EV) (Dusk / Dawn covered forest )

3. How does my 300 2.8 II compare with my 400 DO 4 II in this regard?
300mm 2.8 will be faster than 400mm DO 4.0 in regard with the speed of the AF. Keep in mind that adding an extender into equation will slow down the AF speed considerably. on both lenses.

4. Also, do you have any idea if Canon log will be added to the 1DX II?
I do not know if will be added and when. It does make sense to have it available in 1D X mark II too


5. My response on last email was based on a post made by a colleague from Canon USA. Here is the original post:
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=20182.0


Jack