Canon engineers talk all things RF, DS and DO

degos

EOS 80D
Mar 20, 2015
194
119
Didn't we have some claims the RF mount could only help make wider angle lenes easier to downsize? Sigh...So many "experts."
Per the patent filing the RF 70-200 2.8 is longer when retracted than the EF 70-300 L ( 153 versus 143 mm ) and longer when extended than the EF 70-200 2.8 II ( 223 versus 199 mm ) so forgive me if I can't see where the magical smallness exists.
 

docsmith

EOS 6D MK II
Sep 17, 2010
847
198
It seems to me that they are concerned about Sony, given that Sony has produced some serious products of late. But the answer to that involves producing better products. The RP and R are good, but the next step is coming.

All IMHO, of course.
There was a post a few months ago that caught my eye citing a business report that Sony made a massive R&D investment into cameras, but that the camera division was now expected to stand on their own.

The obvious implication being that it would be difficult for Sony to keep up with their rate of innovation or meaningful new product releases.

This is one of those "we will see" type of things. But Canon seems to have a good long term view of the market and wants to maintain their dominance.
 

YuengLinger

EOR R
Dec 20, 2012
2,325
354
Southeastern USA
Per the patent filing the RF 70-200 2.8 is longer when retracted than the EF 70-300 L ( 153 versus 143 mm ) and longer when extended than the EF 70-200 2.8 II ( 223 versus 199 mm ) so forgive me if I can't see where the magical smallness exists.
I believe Canon's mockup is close to what they'll release.
 

degos

EOS 80D
Mar 20, 2015
194
119
I believe Canon's mockup is close to what they'll release.
Though it's difficult to measure due to the angle of the shot it seems like the RF lens when retracted is about 75% the length of the EF, around 150 mm. So in line with the patent.

Also note that the RF lens is constant-diameter, about the same as the EF at its widest point but for the whole barrel length so it's actually more of a handful.

Note how they haven't shown the RF lens fully extended, because that would undermine the 'wow factor'. I conjecture that a retracting EF 70-200 2.8 would be approximately the same size.
 
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Per the patent filing the RF 70-200 2.8 is longer when retracted than the EF 70-300 L ( 153 versus 143 mm ) and longer when extended than the EF 70-200 2.8 II ( 223 versus 199 mm ) so forgive me if I can't see where the magical smallness exists.
Whyyy would you selectively compare a 70-200 2.8 IS to a much slower 70-300??? ... Just to make it look unimpressive and fit your point of view?

The RF is compact until you need the longer parts of it -- and impressively so! Nice development! :)
 
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flip314

EOS 80D
Sep 26, 2018
153
168
I'm going to bet that you'll like the RF 24-240 lens if you've never tried the RF 24-105 or anything else better. It's a compromise lens, plain and simple. The ten times zoom is really useful but the image quality won't be anywhere near as good. If it was then Canon would sell it as an L lens.
I have used the RF 24-105, and better lenses. I still think that "compromise" lenses have a place. Zooms are already "compromised" anyway, but they're way more convenient than carrying around a suitcase full of primes. For days when you want to travel lighter and don't know exactly what you'll be shooting, the 10x zoom range will be incredible.
 

QuisUtDeus

EOS 80D
Feb 20, 2019
115
80
I have used the RF 24-105, and better lenses. I still think that "compromise" lenses have a place. Zooms are already "compromised" anyway, but they're way more convenient than carrying around a suitcase full of primes. For days when you want to travel lighter and don't know exactly what you'll be shooting, the 10x zoom range will be incredible.
My hope is that the 24-240 + 35/1.8 would make for a nice traveling set. The 24-240 has to produce better output than the 18-135 on a crop, doesn't it? And then for indoors or nighttime shots the 35 will drink in the light.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,203
1,478
Didn't we have some claims the RF mount could only help make wider angle lenes easier to downsize? Sigh...So many "experts."
The claim holds true. The RF mount isn't making the 70-200/2.8 shorter, going from a fixed zoom design to an extending zoom design is making it smaller. The same could be done for EF, but Canon has chosen not to do that.

Per the patent filing the RF 70-200 2.8 is longer when retracted than the EF 70-300 L ( 153 versus 143 mm ) and longer when extended than the EF 70-200 2.8 II ( 223 versus 199 mm ) so forgive me if I can't see where the magical smallness exists.
You're comparing apples to oranges, or in this case, optical formulae to actual lenses. When you look at the 'lens length' in a patent filing, understand that 'measurement' is for the optical formula, which runs from the sensor to the front of the lens. When you look at the measurement of a real lens, you need to add 44mm for EF lenses and 20mm for RF lenses to approximate the 'lens length' in a patent filing.

My back of the envelope estimate suggests that the sensor to front of lens length will be about the same for the EF 70-200/2.8 on a DSLR and the fully extended RF 70-200/2.8 on an EOS R.
 
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Aug 22, 2010
1,583
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www.GMCPhotographics.co.uk
"We understand that expectations are really high."

It seems like Canon engineers say this every time someone asks about a pro mirrorless body. That always catches my attention. Maybe I haven't been watching closely enough, but I don't remember them ever taking a step back like that on other releases - I don't remember them saying anything like that leading into a 1D series or 5D series release. It seems to me that if they weren't working on the pro body they'd just say that they can't disclose their future plans and leave it at that.

Acknowledging high expectations and then not trying to meet it seems like admitting defeat, so as the market leader I have a hard time seeing Canon do that. It seems like they're making the acknowledgement to subtly say "we're working on it, but it's going to take some time." In the end that statement often seems to raise expectations even more: I'm pretty excited to see what they come up with.
Yes...it's quite clear that this is a marketing exercise presented by a bunch of engineers who can't actually say much due to company NDA's. We all know that a Pro camera is coming...but I suspect that it's not the all encompassing Pro camera we are assuming ie a 1dRf. A 7DII, 5D4 and 5Dsr are all classed as pro cameras...so it's most likely a double accounting announcement for the already rumored 5Dsr replacement. Some pros will jump at the idea...but most pros will not. A 5Dsr replacement in the Rf format means that Canon can release a "pro" featured camera (dual slots, weather sealing, joystick etc) but without actually having to release a 1dx capable AF system using the software based AF system that the Rf mount is using. We all know that system will arrive at some point...but it's way off and Canon currently don't have the system working at that kind of speed yet (15fps in continuous servo mode).
At the moment the Rf mount is for every one except high frame rate and big white lens users. When the tech is there...i'm sure Canon will launch a range of DO super teles along with a 1D equivalent Rf camera body.
 

BillB

EOS 6D MK II
May 11, 2017
993
209
Yes...it's quite clear that this is a marketing exercise presented by a bunch of engineers who can't actually say much due to company NDA's. We all know that a Pro camera is coming...but I suspect that it's not the all encompassing Pro camera we are assuming ie a 1dRf. A 7DII, 5D4 and 5Dsr are all classed as pro cameras...so it's most likely a double accounting announcement for the already rumored 5Dsr replacement. Some pros will jump at the idea...but most pros will not. A 5Dsr replacement in the Rf format means that Canon can release a "pro" featured camera (dual slots, weather sealing, joystick etc) but without actually having to release a 1dx capable AF system using the software based AF system that the Rf mount is using. We all know that system will arrive at some point...but it's way off and Canon currently don't have the system working at that kind of speed yet (15fps in continuous servo mode).
At the moment the Rf mount is for every one except high frame rate and big white lens users. When the tech is there...i'm sure Canon will launch a range of DO super teles along with a 1D equivalent Rf camera body.
Looking at it another way, if you are going to upgrade the 5DsR sensor, why not do it in a new R "pro" camera (with a couple of card slots to keep everybody happy). Not sure How much practical value IBIS would have with all those megapixels, but a lot of people would be unhappy without that too. A tripod might be more sensible though.
 

FramerMCB

Canon 40D & 7D
Sep 9, 2014
367
65
52
I have the Sony 24-240 FE lens and it's a remarkably unimpressive lens. In terms of weight it's about the same as the RF 24-105, so I'm going to predict that the RF 24-240 will be about the same.

I'm going to bet that you'll like the RF 24-240 lens if you've never tried the RF 24-105 or anything else better. It's a compromise lens, plain and simple. The ten times zoom is really useful but the image quality won't be anywhere near as good. If it was then Canon would sell it as an L lens.
You do realize that Canon already has made (it's quite old now) and is making the 28-300mm f3.5-5.6L IS lens right? And by all accounts it's a pretty decent lens other than it's a "weighty" beast, performance wise pretty good. I'm guessing with all of the much newer tech to design and build lenses today that the 24-240mm will be a decent performer, hopefully similar to the Canon EF-S 15-85mm f3.5-5.6 IS USM. But time will tell.
 

Trey T

EOS T7i
Feb 6, 2019
85
34
How have you made the 70-200mm [f/2.8] so small?
We were actually surprised as we started developing this particular product. The idea is that, with the introduction of the large diameter mount with the shorter back-focus distance, we were expecting it to be more suitable for designing wider-angle lenses, but it turned out to be very effective for designing this telephoto lens.
Next thing you know, they will improve it to make it faster, allowing more lights in. Maybe not since the sensor sensitivity (ISO) continues to improve and may compensate for faster lenses. However, there might interest in getting more DoF @ 70mm, e.g. 70-200 f/2.0-2.8.

I assumed the world top lens maker (i.e. Canon) is surprised by traditional lens design (aka physics).
 
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QuisUtDeus

EOS 80D
Feb 20, 2019
115
80
So you believe that CR made up the story?
You are being rude and belligerent, and for some reason are aggressively misinterpreting what I said.

For the benefit of others, Canon treats all of these sorts of interviews as additional opportunities to perform additional marketing puffery. "Wow, this lens mount is so good it surprised even us!". This is the same company that in another recent interview with DPR (https://www.dpreview.com/interviews/3096590100/canon-interview-we-want-to-capture-as-many-customers-as-we-can) refused to confirm that the RF70-200/2.8 will extend. These interviews are vaguely interesting, but nothing new will come out of them, no insight into their future plans and certainly no new product information. Marketing and nothing more. Any real information will be revealed through carefully-crafted press releases.
 
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jolyonralph

Kodak Brownie
Aug 25, 2015
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You do realize that Canon already has made (it's quite old now) and is making the 28-300mm f3.5-5.6L IS lens right? And by all accounts it's a pretty decent lens
Well, yes, I am fully aware of that lens (and the older 35-350 it replaced). Great lens when 10 megapixel sensors were the norm. But nowadays, I certainly wouldn't use one on any modern >20mpx body.

As I said before the RF 24-240 will, I'm sure, produce acceptable results. But it's not going to be anywhere near even the RF 24-105 in terms of image quality.
 
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jolyonralph

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Aug 25, 2015
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My hope is that the 24-240 + 35/1.8 would make for a nice traveling set. The 24-240 has to produce better output than the 18-135 on a crop, doesn't it? And then for indoors or nighttime shots the 35 will drink in the light.
I've done just that. I took the A7RII with the FE 24-240 and the Sony Zeiss 35mm f/2.8 with me when I went to Myanmar a couple of years ago. The 24-240 ended up staying in the bag most of the time. i'm probably going to try to trade the 24-240 for the 24-70 f/4 which I suspect I'll use a lot more.