Canon EOS 6D Mark II Poll Results

[mashuto]

I keep seeing DR come up on this thread. Just curious why there is any doubt on the DR side of things. See below -- these are the three sensors to come out with the on-chip ADC sensors.

See a trend on the DR figures. Why would anyone suspect that number would mysteriously plummet with the 6D2?

- A

My grumblings are directly related to this comment from DPR:

"According to Canon representatives, the 6D Mark II should outperform the original 6D (which it very evidently does) but may not offer the same kind of dynamic range and absolute resolution of the EOS 5D Mark IV."

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/8979194861/the-same-but-different-canon-eos-6d-mark-ii-shooting-experience

I think I (like many others) incorrectly expected that the 6D II would be equivalent to or better than the 5D IV in Dynamic Range since that was what happened with the 6D release after the 5D III. Also, I always understood that Canon's perspective on sensor quality was that Canon always puts the best sensor technology available into their cameras regardless of where it fits into their line.

and yet many others were saying that theory was pretty much a fallicy.

especially when the 77D/T7i did *NOT* get the 80D sensor, but a lower quality one.

I guess the expectation is more in line with the 5d3 and 6d releases. The original 6D was a match or slightly beat the sensor in the 5d3, so the hope/expectation/whatever you wanna call it is that the 6DII would be a match for the sensor in the 5D4.

 

[Jopa]

No pop-up flash, no retractable selfie stick, no Hello Kitty UI skin, no direct upload to Snap Chat... WTF Canon????????????? Gonna pass

While it may not be useful to you, the pop up flash allows you to control other canon flashes and their settings. It's quite handy if you use external flashes and more useful to me than GPS, Bluetooth or NFC

Optical triggering is not much useful if you shoot 1) outdoors 2) with soft boxes / large non-translucent umbrellas in front of the camera. Yongnuo radio transceivers cost like $30, so I don't think it would be any reasonable use of the popup flash except of wasting space and adding unnecessary bulk.

 

[StudentOfLight]

At 12:03 am on the 29th I noticed the Canon announcement. I already had the B&H Photo Video website up. At 12:05 am I saw the preorder notice on B&H and by 12:10 am I had mine ordered. I did not even check to see how the actual specs matched up with the rumored ones.
I felt that with the Digic 7 and on chip ADC the final RAW files should be quite a bit better than the Mark I. I will soon know if I was right or not on this. I also wanted the 45 point AF, Tilt/flip screen and DPAF.

Brian

The ADC is important for RAW quality.

I stand to be corrected, but I don't think Digic has anything to do with RAW image quality. I believe it's responsible for calculations like autofocus, flash power, scene recognition, exposure calculations, face recognition, compression for jpeg and video...

The big feature that Digic 7 adds over previous processors is digital image stabilization in video.

 

[hbr]

At 12:03 am on the 29th I noticed the Canon announcement. I already had the B&H Photo Video website up. At 12:05 am I saw the preorder notice on B&H and by 12:10 am I had mine ordered. I did not even check to see how the actual specs matched up with the rumored ones.
I felt that with the Digic 7 and on chip ADC the final RAW files should be quite a bit better than the Mark I. I will soon know if I was right or not on this. I also wanted the 45 point AF, Tilt/flip screen and DPAF.

Brian

The ADC is important for RAW quality.

I stand to be corrected, but I don't think Digic has anything to do with RAW image quality. I believe it's responsible for calculations like autofocus, flash power, scene recognition, exposure calculations, face recognition, compression for jpeg and video...

The big feature that Digic 7 adds over previous processors is digital image stabilization in video.

You may very well be right, but I remember when the original came out reviewers were saying the reason the 6D was better in signal to noise ratio to the 5D III was that it had the Digic 6 and the 5D had a Digic 5+. But again, reviewers are often not technical people>

 

[bdunbar79]

At 12:03 am on the 29th I noticed the Canon announcement. I already had the B&H Photo Video website up. At 12:05 am I saw the preorder notice on B&H and by 12:10 am I had mine ordered. I did not even check to see how the actual specs matched up with the rumored ones.
I felt that with the Digic 7 and on chip ADC the final RAW files should be quite a bit better than the Mark I. I will soon know if I was right or not on this. I also wanted the 45 point AF, Tilt/flip screen and DPAF.

Brian

The ADC is important for RAW quality.

I stand to be corrected, but I don't think Digic has anything to do with RAW image quality. I believe it's responsible for calculations like autofocus, flash power, scene recognition, exposure calculations, face recognition, compression for jpeg and video...

The big feature that Digic 7 adds over previous processors is digital image stabilization in video.

You may very well be right, but I remember when the original came out reviewers were saying the reason the 6D was better in signal to noise ratio to the 5D III was that it had the Digic 6 and the 5D had a Digic 5+. But again, reviewers are often not technical people>

S/N has zero to do with the processor and only to do with read noise and full well capacity.

 

[amorse]

I keep seeing DR come up on this thread. Just curious why there is any doubt on the DR side of things. See below -- these are the three sensors to come out with the on-chip ADC sensors.

See a trend on the DR figures. Why would anyone suspect that number would mysteriously plummet with the 6D2?

- A

My grumblings are directly related to this comment from DPR:

"According to Canon representatives, the 6D Mark II should outperform the original 6D (which it very evidently does) but may not offer the same kind of dynamic range and absolute resolution of the EOS 5D Mark IV."

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/8979194861/the-same-but-different-canon-eos-6d-mark-ii-shooting-experience

I think I (like many others) incorrectly expected that the 6D II would be equivalent to or better than the 5D IV in Dynamic Range since that was what happened with the 6D release after the 5D III. Also, I always understood that Canon's perspective on sensor quality was that Canon always puts the best sensor technology available into their cameras regardless of where it fits into their line.

and yet many others were saying that theory was pretty much a fallicy.

especially when the 77D/T7i did *NOT* get the 80D sensor, but a lower quality one.

I prefer to call that perspective wishful thinking based on past relationships between camera lines

You're right though, the theory was never a guarantee and now that at least one review has suggested that DR will not be on par with the 5D IV, it just means people like me really need to wait and see just how far from par the 6D II is. I'm fine with that.

Although, I was under the impression that the 77D and the T7i got the exact same sensor as the 80D except with a Digic 7 processor in the 77D and T7i where the 80D got a Digic 6? I can't find any comparative tests that indicate any difference in image quality or dynamic range?

 

[canonlover]

I like the idea of 4k. I think it would have been a good addition for "future proofing"

Having said that i wonder how many people even have a 4k monitor and a pc powerful enough to edit 4k video?

I suspect the majority of persons for whom who this camera was intended for (Casual/Enthusiast photographers) do not have this now.

But this will excel at FullHD video which most people have access to and can truly utilize. Having said all of this its a still camera not a video cam.

The 6d mk2 will sell like hotcakes no matter what the naysayers say

 

[mashuto]

I prefer to call that perspective wishful thinking based on past relationships between camera lines

You're right though, the theory was never a guarantee and now that at least one review has suggested that DR will not be on par with the 5D IV, it just means people like me really need to wait and see just how far from par the 6D II is. I'm fine with that.

Yea... well I in the exact same boat as you, except that I preordered. And this is the one thing that makes me hesitant about the preorder... I too thought it would share a similar relationship to the 5d4 that the original shared with the 5d3. If this falls significantly short, that would be quite a disappointment. A stop and a half extra DR would be great, 1 stop, less so, and anything less than that will probably make this not worth it.

So the question for me is whether any of this information will actually come out before the ship date so I can determine if I need/want to cancel.

 

[dak723]

I keep seeing DR come up on this thread. Just curious why there is any doubt on the DR side of things. See below -- these are the three sensors to come out with the on-chip ADC sensors.

See a trend on the DR figures. Why would anyone suspect that number would mysteriously plummet with the 6D2?

- A

My grumblings are directly related to this comment from DPR:

"According to Canon representatives, the 6D Mark II should outperform the original 6D (which it very evidently does) but may not offer the same kind of dynamic range and absolute resolution of the EOS 5D Mark IV."

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/8979194861/the-same-but-different-canon-eos-6d-mark-ii-shooting-experience

I think I (like many others) incorrectly expected that the 6D II would be equivalent to or better than the 5D IV in Dynamic Range since that was what happened with the 6D release after the 5D III. Also, I always understood that Canon's perspective on sensor quality was that Canon always puts the best sensor technology available into their cameras regardless of where it fits into their line.

and yet many others were saying that theory was pretty much a fallicy.

especially when the 77D/T7i did *NOT* get the 80D sensor, but a lower quality one.

I prefer to call that perspective wishful thinking based on past relationships between camera lines

You're right though, the theory was never a guarantee and now that at least one review has suggested that DR will not be on par with the 5D IV, it just means people like me really need to wait and see just how far from par the 6D II is. I'm fine with that.

Although, I was under the impression that the 77D and the T7i got the exact same sensor as the 80D except with a Digic 7 processor in the 77D and T7i where the 80D got a Digic 6? I can't find any comparative tests that indicate any difference in image quality or dynamic range?

And the DR between the 6D II and the 5D IV will be so close that there will be no difference in real life shooting - although I know people here are more interested in test results.

 

[privatebydesign]

The only people who have suggested a small question mark on the 6D MkII DR are the original DRones, DPReview.

They are full of sh!t and liars. They have been proven to be utterly dishonest and disingenuous on this very subject when relating specifically to Canon cameras. We have even had Rishi himself here trying to distract from his outright lies. I am no conspiracy theorist I am just relaying easily verified facts. At the very least they call out Canon DR for page hits, even when a Canon model bests a competitors comparable model they still under score it or kill it with feint praise.

Anybody that trusts DPReviews comments on Canon DR is buying into their nonesense.

 

[amorse]

The only people who have suggested a small question mark on the 6D MkII DR are the original DRones, DPReview.

They are full of sh!t and liars. They have been proven to be utterly dishonest and disingenuous on this very subject when relating specifically to Canon cameras. We have even had Rishi himself here trying to distract from his outright lies. I am no conspiracy theorist I am just relaying easily verified facts. At the very least they call out Canon DR for page hits, even when a Canon model bests a competitors comparable model they still under score it or kill it with feint praise.

Anybody that trusts DPReviews comments on Canon DR is buying into their nonesense.

I hope you're right! I would love for DPReview to be completely off base here. I'll definitely be waiting patiently for some real world reviews - I'm not inclined to pre-order anything anyway.

 

[Aglet]

the 5d4 is kind of expensive
the 6d2 is less so, altho it will initially be somewhat overpriced

Even if they are equipped with exactly the same sensor, there are still other factors that can affect the overall DR and IQ, especially when it comes to read noise, even tho the ADCs are on-sensor.

Little details like layout, shielding and power supply quality often take a bit of a hit to reach lower price points in the first part of the design cycle.

So it's quite probably that the 6d2 will be significantly improved compared to the original 6D or 5d3 but it's also quite possible that it will lag slightly in comparison to the pricier 5D4.

We won't know until some proper lab tests are done someplace like DxOmark...
Or, for Neuro's sake, some lens-cap-on shots which can provide the same data but don't have the same panache.

 

[tomscott]

I think its crazy people expect the 6DMKII to be better than the 5DMKVI.

The 6D vs the 5DMKIII that people keep going on and on about was so minimal that only in extreme cases would it be perceivable.

You guys are beyond splitting hairs. Im sorry but if you cant get a decent image with 5DMKVIs DR then the 6DMKII really isnt going to cut it for you.

Some of these comments are absolute gold. Get off the computer and shoot some images.

It always makes me laugh as there is probably 1% of photographers on CR who actually post images. The rest bitch and moan about theoretical situations of recovering shadows of a subject they never actually go and shoot.

 

[asl]

I like the idea of 4k. I think it would have been a good addition for "future proofing"

Having said that i wonder how many people even have a 4k monitor and a pc powerful enough to edit 4k video?

I suspect the majority of persons for whom who this camera was intended for (Casual/Enthusiast photographers) do not have this now.

But this will excel at FullHD video which most people have access to and can truly utilize. Having said all of this its a still camera not a video cam.

The 6d mk2 will sell like hotcakes no matter what the naysayers say

Probably true.

But for many I think the (planned) lifespan of such camera as the 6dII is to long to not have 4K.

(I do not buy the "stills camera" argument, from what I have seen dpaf is probably the best video af there is in this segment and stm lenses are mainly made for video af, they are slow for stills in my experiences.)

 

[Don Haines]

The only people who have suggested a small question mark on the 6D MkII DR are the original DRones, DPReview.

They are full of sh!t and liars. They have been proven to be utterly dishonest and disingenuous on this very subject when relating specifically to Canon cameras. We have even had Rishi himself here trying to distract from his outright lies. I am no conspiracy theorist I am just relaying easily verified facts. At the very least they call out Canon DR for page hits, even when a Canon model bests a competitors comparable model they still under score it or kill it with feint praise.

Anybody that trusts DPReviews comments on Canon DR is buying into their nonesense.

Anyone in doubt about DPreview should look at the lens ratings.... They rate Canon's cheapest lens as higher than Canon's most expensive lens.... that's right, the 50F1.8 is BETTER than the 600F4! Something is wrong with a system that gives such results, and seriously wrong with those who defend it!

 

[dak723]

I think its crazy people expect the 6DMKII to be better than the 5DMKVI.

The 6D vs the 5DMKIII that people keep going on and on about was so minimal that only in extreme cases would it be perceivable.

You guys are beyond splitting hairs. Im sorry but if you cant get a decent image with 5DMKVIs DR then the 6DMKII really isnt going to cut it for you.

Some of these comments are absolute gold. Get off the computer and shoot some images.

It always makes me laugh as there is probably 1% of photographers on CR who actually post images. The rest bitch and moan about theoretical situations of recovering shadows of a subject they never actually go and shoot.

Thank you for having the guts to state the obvious! There are far too many folks on CR that are only interested in the tech and the test results. Photographers were taking great shots with perfectly good IQ with the original digital rebel, the 5D, the 5D II and every crop and FF digital camera ever made. The pixel peepers and lens cap photographers have made a joke out of this forum. It's time for them to learn how to take a real picture and learn about composition, lighting and the elements that make a good photo. DR is not one of those elements. Noise (or lack of) is not one of those elements. The 6D takes great photos and with on sensor ADC the 6D will be slightly better. It's really that simple.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Anyone in doubt about DPreview should look at the lens ratings.... They rate Canon's cheapest lens as higher than Canon's most expensive lens.... that's right, the 50F1.8 is BETTER than the 600F4! Something is wrong with a system that gives such results, and seriously wrong with those who defend it!

Well, it's all about your scoring criteria. For example, I could score the 50/1.8 as a 65, the 24-70/2.8L II as an 18, and the 600/4L II as 0.5...and that would make perfect sense if my scoring criterion was how many lenses would fit in a 20 L bucket.

 

[mashuto]

I think its crazy people expect the 6DMKII to be better than the 5DMKVI.

The 6D vs the 5DMKIII that people keep going on and on about was so minimal that only in extreme cases would it be perceivable.

You guys are beyond splitting hairs. Im sorry but if you cant get a decent image with 5DMKVIs DR then the 6DMKII really isnt going to cut it for you.

Some of these comments are absolute gold. Get off the computer and shoot some images.

It always makes me laugh as there is probably 1% of photographers on CR who actually post images. The rest bitch and moan about theoretical situations of recovering shadows of a subject they never actually go and shoot.

It sounds like you might in part be referring to me since I am one of those that has brought up DR.

And yes, I am splitting hairs, because to me that is in part what is going to determine whether purchasing the camera is worth it, to me. And I am not expecting it to be better than the 5d4, only an expectation that it would match image quality similarly to how the 6D matched the 5D3. So, for me if the 6D2 matches the 5D4, thats what I am hoping for. Or if its close enough that there is no perceivable difference. I just want a noticeable improvement over the original 6D. And if I am splitting hairs its because I have $2000 on the line and want to make sure its a justified purchase.

So, yes I get it, people seem way more interested in tech and seem to ignore the fact that our existing cameras already take perfectly good images. Except we are in a thread in a forum specifically discussing a new piece of gear... do you not expect us to, i dont know, discuss it?

I can get perfectly useable shots with my current 6D's DR, let alone what the 5D4 offers. But if I am paying this much for a camera right now, I want DR to be an improvement, and we are simply discussing how much it might be, since its kind of unknown right now. Thats just important to me, so thats why I am discussing it.

And you are right, I do need to get out and shoot more... but when I cant, i might as well come discuss a camera I am interested in. And for that matter, what are you doing in this thread?

 

[Sporgon]

The biggest issue for me in changing to the on-chip ADC cameras is Canon's delightful engineering in leaving the .CR2 files totally uncooked. I believe that they are the only camera company to do so, and long may it survive the attempts of the likes of DPR to do raw comparisons and trash Canon.

The reason that leaving them uncooked is such a good thing is that more advanced raw converters can make a better job of them, specifically in holding highlights, among other things. This means that cameras such as the 5D and 5DII have been given a significant "up date" if you shoot in raw, and the ability to ETTR more when faced with strong highlights and shadows has thanks to these converters given the whole "DR" a real boost by keeping the bottom end of shadows up off the base.

If we still had the same raw converters from 2009, or are shooting jpeg only, then I would jump on the 6DII in a flash, but thanks to Canon giving us unadulterated RAWs I'm really not convinced that I'll see the £2,000 worth of improvement in my images.

 

[amorse]

I think its crazy people expect the 6DMKII to be better than the 5DMKVI.

The 6D vs the 5DMKIII that people keep going on and on about was so minimal that only in extreme cases would it be perceivable.

You guys are beyond splitting hairs. Im sorry but if you cant get a decent image with 5DMKVIs DR then the 6DMKII really isnt going to cut it for you.

Some of these comments are absolute gold. Get off the computer and shoot some images.

It always makes me laugh as there is probably 1% of photographers on CR who actually post images. The rest bitch and moan about theoretical situations of recovering shadows of a subject they never actually go and shoot.

It sounds like you might in part be referring to me since I am one of those that has brought up DR.

And yes, I am splitting hairs, because to me that is in part what is going to determine whether purchasing the camera is worth it, to me. And I am not expecting it to be better than the 5d4, only an expectation that it would match image quality similarly to how the 6D matched the 5D3. So, for me if the 6D2 matches the 5D4, thats what I am hoping for. Or if its close enough that there is no perceivable difference. I just want a noticeable improvement over the original 6D. And if I am splitting hairs its because I have $2000 on the line and want to make sure its a justified purchase.

So, yes I get it, people seem way more interested in tech and seem to ignore the fact that our existing cameras already take perfectly good images. Except we are in a thread in a forum specifically discussing a new piece of gear... do you not expect us to, i dont know, discuss it?

I can get perfectly useable shots with my current 6D's DR, let alone what the 5D4 offers. But if I am paying this much for a camera right now, I want DR to be an improvement, and we are simply discussing how much it might be, since its kind of unknown right now. Thats just important to me, so thats why I am discussing it.

And you are right, I do need to get out and shoot more... but when I cant, i might as well come discuss a camera I am interested in. And for that matter, what are you doing in this thread?

As the only other person asking questions about DR in this thread, I agree with this. No doubt splitting hairs, but when I expect this to be my main body for the next 4 years I want to be sure I pick what's right for me - neither the 5D IV nor the 6D II is cheap. I don't think either of us are bitching, both have said we'd take which ever camera has better DR - the 5D IV or the 6D II. I just want to see some real world reviews before I decide what I buy. God forbid I make a purchase decision based on evidence and my own needs. For all any of us know the 6D II images will be indiscernible from the 5D IV images, or DPReview is full of it and the 6D II's DR is better than the 5D IV - I'd just like to have that question answered before I choose one.

As for getting off the computer and shooting, my canonrumors internet link (the little globe to the left) connects to my flickr and I am out shooting every week. I really like the images I get from my 6D, and I have always felt that if I could improve only one thing about it, it would be DR since I am frequently getting into situations where the images are clipped on both sides of the histogram. I use ND grads regularly to compensate for that problem, but that obviously comes with other problems, and frankly, it would be a treat if that wasn't as big of a barrier for my next camera.