Canon EOS 7D Mark III Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

[Talys]

Because of the 80D is a superb APS-C stills camera, there isn't a lot of reason to consider a 7DII today. I don't need to go through the laundry list; we're all familiar with that. On top of that, the two models are priced just $300 apart -- and at $1400 for 7DII, that's not a very large percentage spread.

That's nonsense. Do you own and use them, or are you just an armchair critic who reads feature lists? I've had the 7D2 from launch day, and the 80D for over a year, and use them frequently. The 7D2 is significantly ahead in areas which are really important for sports and wildlife photography, despite being so much older.

I own an 80D and use it as my primary device for studio photography, mostly of inanimate objects in a professional setting (ie someone is paying for it). 80D is the perfect device for that task. I have borrowed 7D2 for a whole day shoot, and all I can say is that a tilting screen is an absolute must, if you sometimes need to take shots from a downwards angle, or straight down. One day reminded me how much I hated ladders. Frankly, I'd go back to a t5i if it came down to it. Also, liveview to PC over WiFi Jpeg on PC with RAW on SD is pretty important and I couldn't get that to work on 7D2. I ended up tethering, and I so hate that.

So to be perfectly clear, a great studio camera with an articulating screen is professionally important to me. It's be reason I've never considered Canon's FF options. I would love being able to capture more in constrained spaces (or constrained positioning for a diorama, or vertical down shots), as 6D2 will permit.

The only outdoor shots I typically take that would matter are birds, and I as I'm a fairweather birder, so high ISO isn't important to me. 400 is the highest I'd shoot at, because I wouldn't go out out on cloudy/rainy/dark days to shoot birds. I have not given a 7D2 a fair shot in that scenario.

Now, certainly, I don't represent a lot of photographers, but obviously 80D massively outsells 7D2, so there must be some (different) things a lot of people like about 80D.

Regarding the prices, today's best UK street price for a 7D2 is almost £400 higher than the 80D, or 42%. For real people spending real money and not just talking about it, that's a very significant difference.

What can I say? They're $1100 and $1500 USD on Amazon US. In Canada, the price on both if you Go Grey (sellers who split kits and/or break Canon pricing rules), they are both a lot cheaper than that, around 30% so. But nowhere near GBP400. Plus tons of places have big 7D2 discounts, further narrowing the price.

What's the problem with that? They could just get rid of 7D2, or just combine it into 90D, since 80D and 77D are so close. Well, I think, the issue is market segmentation: I'm pretty sure there are people willing to spend more than $1,100 for the best Canon APS-C camera. Just not for the 7DII, which doesn't offer enough more, and in some cases, offers less.

You do know that the original 7D was born out of a split when the old 50D was replaced with the lower-level 60D and high-end 7D? I don't think many would want to go back to a situation where there was no truly high-end APS-C body.

BTW I have no idea what the 77D has to do with this. It's an XXXD with a two-digit name - chosen, no doubt, to confuse the less well-informed.

I've played around with both T6s and 77D. 77D is a lot closer to 80D than T6s, in my opinion. Frankly, I think the only thing I couldn't live with on 77D is the crappy viewfinder. 80D pentaprism is just so much more pleasing to use.

I should also note that I'm not one of these guys where technical supremacy is my biggest motivator. Really, the menu options, ergonomics, and other factors that get me to a pretty good shot comfortably is WAY more important than the spec sheet. In this respect, 80D is really excellent.

 

[SecureGSM]

Talys,

7D II is a dedicated fast action, Advanced AF Tracking, all weather, longer reach friendly (birding, wildlife,etc) built like a tank beast. You are not really comparing apples to apples here, but that's OK. as long as you are an open minded person as you are.

regarding the 77D body:

"... By not including AFMA Canon has simply placed this camera as a Rebel without calling it a Rebel..."

https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=31948.msg651094#msg651094

I've played around with both T6s and 77D. 77D is a lot closer to 80D than T6s, in my opinion. Frankly, I think the only thing I couldn't live with on 77D is the crappy viewfinder. 80D pentaprism is just so much more pleasing to use.

I should also note that I'm not one of these guys where technical supremacy is my biggest motivator. Really, the menu options, ergonomics, and other factors that get me to a pretty good shot comfortably is WAY more important than the spec sheet. In this respect, 80D is really excellent.

 

[Talys]

Talys,

7D II is a dedicated fast action, Advanced AF Tracking, all weather, longer reach friendly (birding, wildlife,etc) built like a tank beast. You are not really comparing apples to apples here, but that's OK. as long as you are an open minded person as you are.

regarding the 77D body:

"... By not including AFMA Canon has simply placed this camera as a Rebel without calling it a Rebel..."

https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=31948.msg651094#msg651094

I've played around with both T6s and 77D. 77D is a lot closer to 80D than T6s, in my opinion. Frankly, I think the only thing I couldn't live with on 77D is the crappy viewfinder. 80D pentaprism is just so much more pleasing to use.

I should also note that I'm not one of these guys where technical supremacy is my biggest motivator. Really, the menu options, ergonomics, and other factors that get me to a pretty good shot comfortably is WAY more important than the spec sheet. In this respect, 80D is really excellent.

Actually, you're totally right about AFMA. I criticized that at the time, in the context of the two cameras being nearly the same price (when you consider Amazon, anyways), but have since forgotten about it, probably because I manually focus a lot anyways (why not, when your subject is inanimate). The OVF is glaring, though; pick up a 77D and you'll notice it in a split second, and if you've ever used a 5D/6D/80D or predecessor, and if you like OVFs, I can't imagine being happy with a 77D.

And, yes, indeed. I agree with you -- I'm not comparing apples to apples between xxD and 7D. If you want to say that 7D is an APSC tank, built with the durability of Canon FF bodies, while 80D is not, I'm more than happy to agree with you.

My original point was not really that 80D was superior to 7D2, but rather that for a lot of people, there's not a clear reason to buy it, even if it only costs a little more (at least this neck of the woods). Taking price out of the equation, if it's a choice of 80D features OR 7D2 features, I suspect a lot of people choose 80D.

So, anyways, my hypothesis was simply that a possibility is that Canon wants to launch 7D3 in 2018, not because of external threats (though of course, that could be), but also because it thinks it can bump up the feature set of 7D, such that the main reason to buy an 80D is price. If 7D had everything 80D had (including articulating screen), could shoot 4k video, dual SD, and some other gosh darnit do-dads, then Canon could get some happy 80D people to step up to a camera in the $1800+ range.

Plus, Canon has no sub $2k option for 4k video, and that would solve that, without compromising 5D4 sales.

By the way, about being open-minded. I post on these forums to relax and kill time. A lot of times, I write something, and just close my browser, because I don't want to take a controversial position. I am totally open to the possibility that I'm wrong about nearly everything I write about photography -- it's just a hobby for me, though I do make a reasonable supplemental income with it

 

[Steve Balcombe]

I own an 80D and use it as my primary device for studio photography, mostly of inanimate objects in a professional setting

I haven't quoted your whole text but I am taking it all into account. Basically what you're saying is that you do almost no outdoor photography and don't shoot anything which moves. Ok - that simply means you are not a 7D2 customer and probably won't be a 7D3 customer either. Based on what you've said, I completely agree that you'd be daft to spend all that extra money on features you just won't use. For people who are the target market for the 7D2, the differences, believe me, are huge.

I've already said I have both bodies. As it happens I do a small amount of 'table top studio' work, in fact I'll be doing some today, and for that I will be using the 80D. The 'high end' features of the 7D2 are all irrelevant, and 80D is nice to use with its flippy screen and better sensor at low ISOs. Sound familiar?

 

[Don Haines]

I got the 7D2 instead of the 80D for three reasons:

Weather sealing
Weather sealing
Weather sealing

If you are going to be using the camera in all weather, including rain, salt spray, and the Canadian winter when -20C feels like a heat wave, then just this one difference is enough to justify the camera...... but 10FPS and a 1DX like AF system are also great reasons.....

If you don't need those features, you wasted your money, if you do need them, "ya done good there bye".... we all come to the picnic with different requirements and that's why there are so many different models from different manufacturers out there.

 

[Sporgon]

I got the 7D2 instead of the 80D for three reasons:

Weather sealing
Weather sealing
Weather sealing

If you are going to be using the camera in all weather, including rain, salt spray, and the Canadian winter when -20C feels like a heat wave, then just this one difference is enough to justify the camera...... but 10FPS and a 1DX like AF system are also great reasons.....

If you don't need those features, you wasted your money, if you do need them, "ya done good there bye".... we all come to the picnic with different requirements and that's why there are so many different models from different manufacturers out there.

What about fur sealing ?

 

[EdwardNJ]

My expectations for the 7D Mark III


I had my 7DII since the first day it was released, it is an awesome camera but I think Canon has to get on it if they want to keep it relevant against the Nikon D500 or any cropped body Sony may want to throw in the game especially if it has all the nice stuff they put in the A9.

Realistic expectations:
12 FPS, more is always good, especially for sports and wildlife, you don't wanna lose the peak of the action and extra frame or two are always good.

More megapixels, if you're shooting wildlife, there is a good chance you're always cropping your pictures, more megapixels less resolution and IQ you lose when cropping.

More AF points, with more cross type diagonal points. If Sony can fit over 600 points in the A9, I'm sure Canon can put a few more than 65, the D500 has 153 all together.

Better ISO performance, the sensor in the top cropped body of Canon should be noticeable better than the one in the 80D or Nikon' s D500. Same goes with dynamic range and overall IQ.

Definitely touch screen, maybe a flip screen, I had it in my t3i back in the day, it worked great and I miss that from that camera.

Radio flash trigger for the newer Canon flashes.

Wi-fi/NFC and Bluetooth connectivity, the SD card thing is very inconsistent, built in Wi-Fi and Bluetooth should be better.

Better cards compatibility, the faster the card, the faster you clear up that buffer.

Get rid of that 1980's Casio top screen and put something more customizable and useful. Something that would work also to show the status of the remote flashes or just for the Wi-Fi, GPS or Bluetooth,maybe a small LCD touch screen.

Some sort of 4K, if this is the top of the line in the crop world of Canon, the camera should have 4K, keep the headphones and mic jacks and the dual pixel AF.

More ways to customize functions.

Less realistic expectations:

Built in image stabilization.

A better AF micro adjustment system for zoom lenses at different focal lengths, either Canon or third party, maybe with the use of a computer so calibration is less tedious.

Better Canon app compatibility to be used also for video not only pictures.

A version without anti aliasing filter for better IQ.

 

[Mikehit]

Re: My expectations for the 7D Mark III

More AF points, with more cross type diagonal points. If Sony can fit over 600 points in the A9, I'm sure Canon can put a few more than 65, the D500 has 153 all together.

Number of AF points is not really important. But does the D500 have a wider coverage?

Better cards compatibility, the faster the card, the faster you clear up that buffer.

No really much wrong with the buffer. I upgraded my cards and got a much better buffer clearance.

Some sort of 4K, if this is the top of the line in the crop world of Canon, the camera should have 4K, keep the headphones and mic jacks and the dual pixel AF.

Yawn!

More ways to customize functions.

How many more ways do you need??

 

[Don Haines]

...Still shooting with my original 7D after being disappointed in the image quality of the 7D ii...

I'm having a really hard time wrapping my head around this statement. I used the 7D for years. Switched to a 5DIII. Bought a 7DII for sports and then bought a 1DXII, also for sports and general purpose use.

My experience: 7DII is a significant increase in quality over the 7D at 800 ISO or higher (pretty much impossible to tell the diffference between any cameras at ISO 400 or below.)

7DII could hold its own against the 5DIII at higher ISOs, up to 6,400. 5DIII was somewhere around a 1/2 to 1 stop better but the quality of the noise in the 7DII has a much more film-like look to it that in my opinion makes it much more acceptable against the original and keeps in in the running against the 5DIII, when factoring in the improved autofocus, fps, etc.

Not surprisingly, the 1DX II beats them all. But if I need the 1.6 reach because of being distance-limited and the light is good, I'll go for the 7DII (birds in good light for example).

I never shot the 7D at anything higher than ISO 400 because I didn't like the noise. With the 7DII I can go up to 6,400 and while the images have noise, it isn't the ugly, electronic noise of the 7D.

Of course opinions vary, but as I say, I'm surprised that you preferred the 7D to the 7D II.

+1

Got the 7D at work and the 7D2 at home. I would not go over ISO 800 on the 7D, but the 7D2 goes up to 6400 easily. It's noise is clean and Lightroom cleans it up well with one simple click on a slider..... The 7D was just ugly in comparison.....

 

[Otara]

I have the 80D and 7D2, and to be honest I find it swings and roundabouts rather than an outright winner.

My n=1 test for weathersealing shows the 80D survived remarkedly well after a full immersion in seawater after a fall for instance. Its currently being assessed, but so far only the flash went, with all other functions and buttons still working fine. And if anything Id say its sealed slightly better there than the 7D2, going to tape it over after just looking at I think.

The biggest advantage for the 7D2 was it being available for quite some time when the 80D wasnt. But for a few hundred dollars to get better AF, burst rate, double cards etc, its still a pretty good deal in my view, just not a 'no-brainer' depending on your particular needs.

 

[hbr]

I have the 80D and 7D2, and to be honest I find it swings and roundabouts rather than an outright winner.

My n=1 test for weathersealing shows the 80D survived remarkedly well after a full immersion in seawater after a fall for instance. Its currently being assessed, but so far only the flash went, with all other functions and buttons still working fine. And if anything Id say its sealed slightly better there than the 7D2, going to tape it over after just looking at I think.

The biggest advantage for the 7D2 was it being available for quite some time when the 80D wasnt. But for a few hundred dollars to get better AF, burst rate, double cards etc, its still a pretty good deal in my view, just not a 'no-brainer' depending on your particular needs.

Otara, sorry to hear about your mishap with the 80D. I have a question that I have been wanting to ask from someone who owns both cameras. I own the 7D II and almost purchased the 80D as a backup. Is the IQ any better on the 80D than on the 7D II? I have heard a lot of good things about the 80D.

Thanks, Brian

 

[bluemoon]

I have the 80D and 7D2, and to be honest I find it swings and roundabouts rather than an outright winner.

My n=1 test for weathersealing shows the 80D survived remarkedly well after a full immersion in seawater after a fall for instance. Its currently being assessed, but so far only the flash went, with all other functions and buttons still working fine. And if anything Id say its sealed slightly better there than the 7D2, going to tape it over after just looking at I think.

The biggest advantage for the 7D2 was it being available for quite some time when the 80D wasnt. But for a few hundred dollars to get better AF, burst rate, double cards etc, its still a pretty good deal in my view, just not a 'no-brainer' depending on your particular needs.

if the saltwater got in, the corrosion will be gradual and the camera can fail over time. If the even was recent, you should look into getting it cleaned up before it's too late!

pierre

 

[Otara]

Its all good, got some great pictures and nothing lost. Might even still be OK!

At 100 or 200 ISO yes from a DR perspective, after that, no and in theory slightly worse, in practise cant really see it myself. It does make a lot of sense as a backup/complementary option which is really why I got it, in that you have more video options, the screen is nice for lower shots, for landscape 100 wider DR is nice etc.

 

[tomscott]

In my mind its blatant who has used the camera and who hasnt from some of the comments.

Ok its not as good as the competition (NOW) in terms of IQ and I think that is generally the sticking point. The fact you can buy them for £900 new is off the scale for performance.

Otherwise it is a solid solid camera!! The speed, latitude, lack of colour noise, great high ISO files (from a crop camera) and its build which is fantastic. I would rely on this for any situation and have taken it to some places that most wouldn't.

Put it this way if a new one came The MKII would be a bargain camera for a lot of people.

The speed isnt just useful in wildlife and sports.

Even in portraits being able to rattle off 3 frames so quickly, same at weddings. Really loved my 5DMKIII but the 7D has no colour noise or banding and its speed is just so refreshing and its always there in a normal sized body. In fact I think the files compare very well when compared to the 5DMKIII ok the higher ISO is better but I wouldn't say its absolutely night and day, the purple shadow colour cast you get with the 5DMKIII and the banding makes editing images later really difficult and time consuming whereas you dont get that on the newer sensors like in the 7DMKII although im sure the 5DMKIV more than bests it I was blown away with it when I got hold of one.

The III feels archaic in comparison. I think people expecting the camera to perform like a FF camera are asking a lot but it performs well when you bare that in mind. lt is what it is and it excels IMO with anything you throw at it.

The only place I feel I have been hampered with the camera has been in Rainforests with the huge contrast differences.

Photographing Gorillas in Uganda or Orangutans in Bukit Luwang Indonesia. Where The light was really poor dark shadows and shards of bright light. Shooting at 6400ISO trying to keep a high enough shutter speed to reduce motion blur.

Setting the scene 40+ deg C with almost 100% humidity trekking for 6+ hours to get to these animals. Huge down pores of rain. Never skipped a beat mechanically.

The pictures look really impressive IMO, all shot with 100-400mm F5.6 MKII as I was traveling (backpacking) and trekking large distances, no way I was trekking with a big prime. In hindsight a 70-200mm F2.8 would have been sufficient as its unbelievable how close you get but you wouldn't get close enough for a tight portrait. I was also traveling the world shooting lots of different subjects so didnt have space for both.

Another couple of images. Again apologies they are from my FB page with a lot of compression. I will upload them to flickr at some point.

TBH at 6400ISO I think these look fantastic. I also took my 5DMKIII but decided against taking it on this trek because I took both when in Uganda and the 5DMKIII was dead weight in the bag. After seeing the results of the 7DMKII i was fully confident in the images not to worry.

Get it in some decent light and... the images are incredible.

It also pretty much ensures you get the moment... Shooting Motorsport when fuel ignites from the exhaust is so hard to capture.

No.27 Nissan R91CK (1991) (Nova Engineering) Silverstone Classics 2016 by Tom Scott, on Flickr

Also pretty much ensures you nail shots 90% of the time, the speed and AF is amazing. Few images I shot for Jaguars Art of performance tour at Silverstone. Shot about 400 images and although I was shooting for motion blur I was amazed at how many were keepers. Usually shooting Motorsport with slow shutter speeds 10-15% are keepers where the focus is where you want and the blur is aesthetic. Was blown away.

So there you go real world. Shot about 300,000 images with this camera in the last 2 1/2 years and its still shooting as if it were new. The body looks a little more worse for wear tho!

Awesome machine.

Jaguar - Art of Performance Tour by Tom Scott, on Flickr

Jaguar - Art of Performance Tour by Tom Scott, on Flickr

 

[Don Haines]

Everyone knows that crop cameras can not be used in poor light, so there is no way you would use a 7D2 handheld an hour after sunset..... yet it works....

 

[neuroanatomist]

Everyone knows that crop cameras can not be used in poor light, so there is no way you would use a 7D2 handheld an hour after sunset..... yet it works....

Don...Don...Don. Why do you persist on posting examples like this, where you've done the post processing completely wrong? If you've learned nearly nothing from these forums, you should have at least learned that shadows are to be abhored. Yes, yes...I know it's an hour after sunset. But that's your fault, you should have gotten there at noon when there was direct light on the foreground. Instead, because of your laziness and/or untimeliness, your foreground is dark. Too dark. Way too dark. And when you go to correct your egregious error in post processing, the dramatic flaws of the 7DII are revealed (particularly if you view a 100% crop).

;D

 

[Geek]

Yes, Don we all agree that no crop camera should be used after sunset. And much less handheld. But here is another after sunset handheld picture taken with a 7DII. Pretty much straight out of the camera. Developed with Lightroom and standard presets, no noise reduction, sharpening or anything.

 

[Don Haines]

Everyone knows that crop cameras can not be used in poor light, so there is no way you would use a 7D2 handheld an hour after sunset..... yet it works....

Don...Don...Don. Why do you persist on posting examples like this, where you've done the post processing completely wrong? If you've learned nearly nothing from these forums, you should have at least learned that shadows are to be abhored. Yes, yes...I know it's an hour after sunset. But that's your fault, you should have gotten there at noon when there was direct light on the foreground. Instead, because of your laziness and/or untimeliness, your foreground is dark. Too dark. Way too dark. And when you go to correct your egregious error in post processing, the dramatic flaws of the 7DII are revealed (particularly if you view a 100% crop).

;D

You are right, I forgot to push it by 4 stops.... Everyone knows that you are supposed to miss your exposure by 4 stops.....

 

[Cthulhu]

The only place I feel I have been hampered with the camera has been in Rainforests with the huge contrast differences.

That's exactly what everybody is saying when they complain about canon's IQ...while most on this forum seem to think the only purpose for more DR is to purposefully underxpose photos I am more concerned about my high contrast scenes, because if you shoot wild life and animals that's a lot of what you get.
That's the reason my 7d2 is collecting dust, despite being a joy to use.

Great photos by the way!

 

[Keith_Reeder]

, because if you shoot wild life and animals that's a lot of what you get.
That's the reason my 7d2 is collecting dust, despite being a joy to use.

I shoot pretty much nothing but wildlife and animals, and I've pretty much worn my 7D Mk II out doing it.