Canon EOS 80D, PowerShot G7 X II, SX720 HS & EF-S 18-135 f/3.5-5.6 IS USM Coming Shortly

[Proscribo]

Not as far wrong as you think.

45 instead of 49 AF points.
7 instead of 8 fps.
Both close enough that I'd give them as human error.

Wrong is still wrong. Those could've been just guesses, I guessed that there would be 8fps and 33p or 39p AF system so did I know something beforehand and just made a "human error"?

24.2MP confirmed.
Viewfinder is better (100%) than the 70D (98%)
Antiflicker confirmed.
Custom features (two new shooting modes - C1, C2) confirmed. Plus creative filters.

Antiflicker was a no-brainer (every canon dsrl has got it since 7DII), viewfinder was said to be "better" which could mean anything same with "custom features", they had no information value.

Well, the MP was probably correct, then again that value could just be a guess too.

 

[Tugela]

If they can do 8FPS @ 20MP with a lower clocked DIGIC7, they can do the rumored 8FPS @ 24MP (or more) on a higher clocked DIGIC7 that would be present in the Pro-M, upcoming later this year... Check next to that rumor... I'd say that rumor of 8FPS+ is valid, wonderful, I knew they'd get there, eventually.

Happy for the G7X users, that 1FPS per second RAW was a real crap shoot for the G series power shots...

Also strong probability of UHS-II, although not mentioned in the specs as 8FPS @ 20MP is greater than 95mb/sec of UHS-I

Did you forget about the buffer?

 

[Tugela]

Copy and paste my own thoughts over at CW...

No 4K in the G7X II is likely because it still uses the RX100 III sensor, which couldn't do 4K readout. There is a 6 month embargo on new Sony techs being resold to external, read Canon. So a G5X II could see 4K, but since the G5X is new, don't count of a refresh for some time.

80D? Possible 4K. ......

The G7XII doesn't have 4K most likely because the Digic 7 runs too hot for that form factor, and consequently the 4K mode is not enabled. The sensor has nothing to do with it (The RX100 sensor can do 4K anyway).

The 80D will not be able to do 4K because it has a Digic 6 processor, which is limited to HD for hardware encoding.

If the G7XII has a Digic 7 then it can probably be hacked to enable 4K, if you don't mind it overheating. But why bother doing that when you can buy a RX100M4?

 

[Tugela]

There isn't that much room in between the 760D, 70D and 7D2 currently except maybe for potential 4K video (how many really use this after the novelty trick wears off?). Canon seems preoccupied with 'segmenting' and milking the market, making sure that there are all kinds of practically irrelevant differences between models and only very gradual changes that are just enough to keep the faithful upgrading every time.

People who shoot video will use 4K. It isn't a "novelty".

 

[Tugela]

The more I think about it, the more logical it is it'll sport 4K... DIGIC7 + probably new or reworked APS-C sensor, the 70D was a video oriented Rebel with sudo sports; but we'll see. They're not gonna go back to Hybrid CMOS AF III, if they do, it's foolish to downgrade a feature to create a what's the point 80D.

with a 3 year timeline, I honestly can't see how it won't have some kind of 4K, however I'm not sure how canon could do a 4K h.264 codec on the 80D when they couldn't on the 1DXII.

that honestly would look pretty weird.

The 1DXII used previous generation processors, so it couldn't do 4K H.264 even if they wanted to. The 80D apparently will also has a previous generation processor, which is a bit odd because the compact will apparently have the current generation. It may just be that the 80D design was locked before the Digic 7s were available. Or perhaps they are just not good enough to handle the workload yet. That wouldn't surprise me since Canon have been way behind the competition in the processor war since at least 2013. That is what is really holding them back. They have handled the transition of cameras into the computer age quite poorly.

 

[Tugela]

The more I think about it, the more logical it is it'll sport 4K... DIGIC7 + probably new or reworked APS-C sensor, the 70D was a video oriented Rebel with sudo sports; but we'll see. They're not gonna go back to Hybrid CMOS AF III, if they do, it's foolish to downgrade a feature to create a what's the point 80D.

with a 3 year timeline, I honestly can't see how it won't have some kind of 4K, however I'm not sure how canon could do a 4K h.264 codec on the 80D when they couldn't on the 1DXII.

that honestly would look pretty weird.

It's true that motion JPEG is less CPU intensive then h.264, but, for 4K frame grabs, you'd want motion jpeg standard. BTW, mjpeg is a wonderful codec to have in terms of IQ retention, just doesn't make for small bitrate, but with CFAST, who cares, you're just gonna recode it to h264 for disto anyways. That's another good question as to what media medium the 80D will carry, IE CFAST only, or SDHC UHS-II? It probably won't be CF or SDHC UHS-I though, if they do 4K... Unless they do h.264 which I doubt, uses lots of CPU power IE heat problem.

They could easily do mjpeg for the 80d, and it'd work just as good, and Canon could support 4k frame grabs on it too. But they would also not give the 80D the same AF as the 7DII so as to segment that market and price point.

It will not be MJPEG because that requires a lot of CPU power (since the hardware encoder is absent). In order to do 4K with Digic 6 processors using MJPEG, the 80D would require two processors.

 

[Tugela]

Maybe you have some inside info. I'd find it strange there would be a 7D3 already in the works. Especially if it's in response to the D500 which isn't in the market yet. It doesn't seem like a camera that many Canon shooters would jump ship for. I'm sure 4K would be a nice addition but first and foremost it's a sports camera. At that the 7DII excels. It's focusing is excellent, it has a very clear field of view especially with the 100-400 II. Works really great with a 70-200mm too. Other than its ISO performance its a very good camera. I couldn't see Canon replacing it for a few years but who knows. Maybe 4K is becoming an important factor in camera buying. For general use 4K is almost overkill. Full HD is pretty good and clear. If they could only do a better job of reducing "Jello". For someone who does shoot video from time to time I find HD files big enough already to manage.

The 7d3 is in the field being tested by users, Canon will be upgrading this later this year or early next in response to the D500. what ever sensor the 80D has the 7d3 will get and people have said it is 24.2mp sensor. It will be a 7d2 with a 1dX2 focusing system, wifi and nfc and gps. Nobody is talking about Video in either camera, this is a huge secret esp in the 7d3 testers. I don't see why Canon will do 4k in the 80D now instead save it for the higher 7d3.

Dang, I just bought two 7D2s last year.

It was pretty obvious (to me anyway) that the 7D2 was released as a stopgap measure. IMO the 7D2 was supposed to be released in 2013, but the imminent arrival of the GH4 with its 4K video threw Canon into a panic. So they delayed the 7D2 while they tried to get a 4K solution into it. When it became clear that wasn't going to be possible in the short term, they released the original design of the 7D2 to hold the market and recover investment, knowing full well that it would be replaced pretty soon by a 7D3.

And all those suckers who rushed to get their 7D2 in 2015 will have sour grapes in 2017

 

[Tugela]

Maybe you have some inside info. I'd find it strange there would be a 7D3 already in the works.
...

How long do you think it takes Canon to design, engineer, test and tool up a new camera?
6 months?

More like 12-18 months, for the high end models, since those required high tolerances. The cheap plastic ones turn around faster.

 

[Tugela]

The 7d3 is in the field being tested by users, Canon will be upgrading this later this year or early next in response to the D500. what ever sensor the 80D has the 7d3 will get and people have said it is 24.2mp sensor.

Might be right about the 80D (although I wouldn't say Canon would give so much bell and whistles to it), but 100% wrong about the 7D3. Canon never released a successor so soon, especially with the more pro bodies. Canon isn't losing sales because of the D500, so they aren't really forced to responde to anything.

Edit: Hector beat me to it.

Maybe they don't need to worry about the D500, but they DO need to worry about the next generation of mirrorless, which are due to start arriving late 2016 and into 2017.

 

[neuroanatomist]

IMO the 7D2 was supposed to be released in 2013, but the imminent arrival of the GH4 with its 4K video threw Canon into a panic. So they delayed the 7D2 while they tried to get a 4K solution into it.

LOL. : The idea that the GH4 sent Canon into any sort of panic is simply ludicrous.

 

[Tugela]

IMO the 7D2 was supposed to be released in 2013, but the imminent arrival of the GH4 with its 4K video threw Canon into a panic. So they delayed the 7D2 while they tried to get a 4K solution into it.

LOL. : The idea that the GH4 sent Canon into any sort of panic is simply ludicrous.

Canon would not have known specifically what the GH4 was capable of, but they would have known that it featured a processor far in advance of anything they had, so there was a risk. Also, when the GH4 release was imminent, it had become clear that 4K video was about to hit mainstream, and that the GH4 was probably going to have it. That would have been a big unknown for Canon, a potential deal breaker that they would have locked one of their flagships out of.

That is what stalled them. The uncertainty of what to do. They were caught flatfooted by 4K, so they floundered (and still are).

The big problem for Canon is not their physical cameras, or lenses......both of those are excellent. Their sensors are not the best but certainly are adequate. What Canon really do not have however is state of the art processors, and that is what is dragging them down. Maybe not so important right now, but unless they do something about it, their competitors (who mostly are strong in this area) are going to be ahead of them very soon.

The future of camera development is mostly going to be about processors....that is where the power to go to the next level is going to come from.

 

[RickWagoner]

This is the 80D


24.2MP
49 point focus*
wifi and nfc*
8fps with larger buffer with high speed uhs support.*
Upgraded viewfinder from the 70D guaranteed*, this may mean a larger viewfinder, more information in it, red dot light up points, or a user replaceable focus screen or all four.*
Flicker free and f8 autofocus*
Not sure is it will have dpaf as we know it today, have heard of something hexa focus but i don't know what that is
more custom features like the 7d2 has, something like the ability to change profiles maybe.
greater weather sealing more or less close to the 7D1*.

* are true features i know as fact.

Seems like your "source" was off regarding the 80D (minus the 24MP, wi-fi and NFC, which was a no brainer in 80D), which makes your claim about the 7D3 even more unreliable.

Over dinner and talk people can be wrong with exacts but keep in mind the true exact specs are not out yet, these are just more leaked info that came from a camera store that always leaks there info. through the conversation it was not like i was writing it all down point from point.
24.2 was on like i said from my guess of what the 7d3 testers have.
49 points i was told over dinner, maybe my source said it in error as they were rattling off the specs..could be nobody is perfect.
wifi and nfc, i knew this from my source before but when i found the canon page for linking the camera to the computer i asked if i could go public with what i have been told. My person told me to do it as Canon leaked it themselves anyway.
8fps with larger buffer, i was dead on about the buffer and you will see. My source still stands by 8fps but warns me Canon may be down rating it on purpose or it is a last minute software patch to down rate it if Canon was not happy with something else. This is common...super common as i have said before. also the uhs support is there.
Upgraded viewfinder from the 70D guaranteed i said, I stated i did not know what it meant though. So far we think it is a 100% viewfinder and that makes sense. I would love to know if the focus screen replacement, more information in it, red dot light up points are on it also. I doubt the red dot points are on it personally..
Flicker free and f8 autofocus, f8 autofocus is being said by other site at 27.
more custom features like the 7d2 has, something like the ability to change profiles maybe. We do know there are two custom modes on the dial so far but we don't know about custom profiles yet.
I was not sure if it was going to be dpaf, i heard lots of talk about something hexta or hecsa as i have no clue how to spell it nor do i have any clue what it is.

You don't have to believe me, i am not passing a basket around asking for money.
We all should know in a few days what the true specs are either way.
I also know for a fact the 7d3 testers are out and more than one has a 24.2 sensor inside, one was on the dinner table while we were talking about the 80D, SL2 and the Canon Crop road map for the upcoming year. And i was told not to say anything else about the tester besides the 24.2 because Canon may be able to pick out who was talking.

 

[Tugela]

IMO the 7D2 was supposed to be released in 2013, but the imminent arrival of the GH4 with its 4K video threw Canon into a panic. So they delayed the 7D2 while they tried to get a 4K solution into it.

LOL. : The idea that the GH4 sent Canon into any sort of panic is simply ludicrous.

Canon would not have known specifically what the GH4 was capable of, but they would have known that it featured a processor far in advance of anything they had, so there was a risk. Also, when the GH4 release was imminent, it had become clear that 4K video was about to hit mainstream, and that the GH4 was probably going to have it. That would have been a big unknown for Canon, a potential deal breaker that they would have locked one of their flagships out of.

That is what stalled them. The uncertainty of what to do. They were caught flatfooted by 4K, so they floundered (and still are).

The big problem for Canon is not their physical cameras, or lenses......both of those are excellent. Their sensors are not the best but certainly are adequate. What Canon really do not have however is state of the art processors, and that is what is dragging them down. Maybe not so important right now, but unless they do something about it, their competitors (who mostly are strong in this area) are going to be ahead of them very soon.

The future of camera development is mostly going to be about processors....that is where the power to go to the next level is going to come from.

In fact, I think you can go even earlier than the GH4 for the source of Canon's panic. The arrival of Sony's RX10 and AX100 cameras, with processors capable of doing full sensor readouts for video, were the first sign that things were about to shake up big time in the camera world. That would have been the "Oh shit!" moment for Canon's engineers and management, when they realized just how far behind they were.

And it was at that very time the 7D2 was supposed to arrive, but didn't.

 

[rrcphoto]

IMO the 7D2 was supposed to be released in 2013, but the imminent arrival of the GH4 with its 4K video threw Canon into a panic. So they delayed the 7D2 while they tried to get a 4K solution into it.

LOL. : The idea that the GH4 sent Canon into any sort of panic is simply ludicrous.

Canon would not have known specifically what the GH4 was capable of, but they would have known that it featured a processor far in advance of anything they had, so there was a risk. Also, when the GH4 release was imminent, it had become clear that 4K video was about to hit mainstream, and that the GH4 was probably going to have it. That would have been a big unknown for Canon, a potential deal breaker that they would have locked one of their flagships out of.

you mean the 1DC that was released a year before the GH4?

 

[rrcphoto]

This is the 80D


24.2MP
49 point focus*
wifi and nfc*
8fps with larger buffer with high speed uhs support.*
Upgraded viewfinder from the 70D guaranteed*, this may mean a larger viewfinder, more information in it, red dot light up points, or a user replaceable focus screen or all four.*
Flicker free and f8 autofocus*
Not sure is it will have dpaf as we know it today, have heard of something hexa focus but i don't know what that is
more custom features like the 7d2 has, something like the ability to change profiles maybe.
greater weather sealing more or less close to the 7D1*.

* are true features i know as fact.

Seems like your "source" was off regarding the 80D (minus the 24MP, wi-fi and NFC, which was a no brainer in 80D), which makes your claim about the 7D3 even more unreliable.

Over dinner and talk people can be wrong with exacts but keep in mind the true exact specs are not out yet, these are just more leaked info that came from a camera store that always leaks there info. through the conversation it was not like i was writing it all down point from point.
24.2 was on like i said from my guess of what the 7d3 testers have.
49 points i was told over dinner, maybe my source said it in error as they were rattling off the specs..could be nobody is perfect.
wifi and nfc, i knew this from my source before but when i found the canon page for linking the camera to the computer i asked if i could go public with what i have been told. My person told me to do it as Canon leaked it themselves anyway.
8fps with larger buffer, i was dead on about the buffer and you will see. My source still stands by 8fps but warns me Canon may be down rating it on purpose or it is a last minute software patch to down rate it if Canon was not happy with something else. This is common...super common as i have said before. also the uhs support is there.
Upgraded viewfinder from the 70D guaranteed i said, I stated i did not know what it meant though. So far we think it is a 100% viewfinder and that makes sense. I would love to know if the focus screen replacement, more information in it, red dot light up points are on it also. I doubt the red dot points are on it personally..
Flicker free and f8 autofocus, f8 autofocus is being said by other site at 27.
more custom features like the 7d2 has, something like the ability to change profiles maybe. We do know there are two custom modes on the dial so far but we don't know about custom profiles yet.
I was not sure if it was going to be dpaf, i heard lots of talk about something hexta or hecsa as i have no clue how to spell it nor do i have any clue what it is.

You don't have to believe me, i am not passing a basket around asking for money.
We all should know in a few days what the true specs are either way.
I also know for a fact the 7d3 testers are out and more than one has a 24.2 sensor inside, one was on the dinner table while we were talking about the 80D, SL2 and the Canon Crop road map for the upcoming year. And i was told not to say anything else about the tester besides the 24.2 because Canon may be able to pick out who was talking.

how confident was the person that said hexapixel focus?

 

[neuroanatomist]

IMO the 7D2 was supposed to be released in 2013, but the imminent arrival of the GH4 with its 4K video threw Canon into a panic. So they delayed the 7D2 while they tried to get a 4K solution into it.

LOL. : The idea that the GH4 sent Canon into any sort of panic is simply ludicrous.

Canon would not have known specifically what the GH4 was capable of, but they would have known that it featured a processor far in advance of anything they had, so there was a risk. Also, when the GH4 release was imminent, it had become clear that 4K video was about to hit mainstream, and that the GH4 was probably going to have it. That would have been a big unknown for Canon, a potential deal breaker that they would have locked one of their flagships out of.

That is what stalled them. The uncertainty of what to do. They were caught flatfooted by 4K, so they floundered (and still are).

Any evidence to support that, outside your imagination? What was Panasonic's share of the ILC market at the time? What is it now (hint: Canon just surpassed them for MILC market share, where Canon really isn't even trying hard). Maybe your evidence is all the 4K video-driven MILC sales increases we've seen over the past couple of years. :

The most likely reason Canon didn't release the 7DII sooner was a total lack of competition in that space from Nikon.

But hey, it's a free world...you can concoct any sort or ridiculous fantasy you want.

 

[rrcphoto]

Maybe you have some inside info. I'd find it strange there would be a 7D3 already in the works.
...

How long do you think it takes Canon to design, engineer, test and tool up a new camera?
6 months?

More like 12-18 months, for the high end models, since those required high tolerances. The cheap plastic ones turn around faster.

canon stated the 1 series cameras take around 5 years from design to production.

in other words as we speak work on the 1DX Mark III as well underway.

it's not just designing the camera, it's legal, translation, firmware, licensing / approvals / red tape .. then manufacturing lines and manufacturing instructions have to be created, tested, and tested more. QC suites of tests, and possibly tools, and also then service center manuals,training, etc. Marketing materials, field testing, canon explorers of light get their copies, legal checks everything again just to make sure they aren't stepping on patents, nor claiming something they shouldn't be.

(edit: which is why canon USA may not be saying much about the sensor, btw)

I always laugh when people suggest that canon or nikon held off on a release to "re-do it" because "x,y,z" came out at the last moment.

the impossibly of that is extraordinary - there's just so many moving parts to it.

 

[RickWagoner]

This is the 80D


24.2MP
49 point focus*
wifi and nfc*
8fps with larger buffer with high speed uhs support.*
Upgraded viewfinder from the 70D guaranteed*, this may mean a larger viewfinder, more information in it, red dot light up points, or a user replaceable focus screen or all four.*
Flicker free and f8 autofocus*
Not sure is it will have dpaf as we know it today, have heard of something hexa focus but i don't know what that is
more custom features like the 7d2 has, something like the ability to change profiles maybe.
greater weather sealing more or less close to the 7D1*.

* are true features i know as fact.

Seems like your "source" was off regarding the 80D (minus the 24MP, wi-fi and NFC, which was a no brainer in 80D), which makes your claim about the 7D3 even more unreliable.

Over dinner and talk people can be wrong with exacts but keep in mind the true exact specs are not out yet, these are just more leaked info that came from a camera store that always leaks there info. through the conversation it was not like i was writing it all down point from point.
24.2 was on like i said from my guess of what the 7d3 testers have.
49 points i was told over dinner, maybe my source said it in error as they were rattling off the specs..could be nobody is perfect.
wifi and nfc, i knew this from my source before but when i found the canon page for linking the camera to the computer i asked if i could go public with what i have been told. My person told me to do it as Canon leaked it themselves anyway.
8fps with larger buffer, i was dead on about the buffer and you will see. My source still stands by 8fps but warns me Canon may be down rating it on purpose or it is a last minute software patch to down rate it if Canon was not happy with something else. This is common...super common as i have said before. also the uhs support is there.
Upgraded viewfinder from the 70D guaranteed i said, I stated i did not know what it meant though. So far we think it is a 100% viewfinder and that makes sense. I would love to know if the focus screen replacement, more information in it, red dot light up points are on it also. I doubt the red dot points are on it personally..
Flicker free and f8 autofocus, f8 autofocus is being said by other site at 27.
more custom features like the 7d2 has, something like the ability to change profiles maybe. We do know there are two custom modes on the dial so far but we don't know about custom profiles yet.
I was not sure if it was going to be dpaf, i heard lots of talk about something hexta or hecsa as i have no clue how to spell it nor do i have any clue what it is.

You don't have to believe me, i am not passing a basket around asking for money.
We all should know in a few days what the true specs are either way.
I also know for a fact the 7d3 testers are out and more than one has a 24.2 sensor inside, one was on the dinner table while we were talking about the 80D, SL2 and the Canon Crop road map for the upcoming year. And i was told not to say anything else about the tester besides the 24.2 because Canon may be able to pick out who was talking.

how confident was the person that said hexapixel focus?

I heard lots of talk about it but it could be meant they were out testing it and refining it for whatever body they would use it in the future. DPAF which was called Pixel focus was talked about around the time 60D coming out.

 

[RickWagoner]

Maybe you have some inside info. I'd find it strange there would be a 7D3 already in the works.
...

How long do you think it takes Canon to design, engineer, test and tool up a new camera?
6 months?

More like 12-18 months, for the high end models, since those required high tolerances. The cheap plastic ones turn around faster.

Double your estimates. Q/A testing is at least 6 months alone for higher end models.

I know that on the 7d2 the weather sealing was a huge undertaking. Canon tested and researched probably hundreds of thousands gaskets, different thickness, different chemical mixtures that make up the rubber, etc. They tested what exact mixture worked better for the gaskets at the lower part of the body, gaskets around buttons, etc. For example for a gasket by a button or dial it can not hurt the feel of the button, but it has to be tough enough to stand up to the flexing over time. If one little speck of sand gets in the wrong place it could bring with it moisture. That can allow for the growth of mold and that can dry and rot out the gasket over time. I often complained Canon put too much in the weather sealing at the price of more usable features here on this Forum, if you really require such a build you must be a bastard to the highest on your gear!

 

[rrcphoto]

I heard lots of talk about it but it could be meant they were out testing it and refining it for whatever body they would use it in the future. DPAF which was called Pixel focus was talked about around the time 60D coming out.

I was curious .. because hexapixel AF was a patent that canon got through a while back.