Canon EOS 90D and Canon EOS M6 Mark II announcements coming at the end of August

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
989
484
I think that might be confusing absence of data with a finding. Theres very different sample sizes.

If you take a look at the 60D or 70D with larger samples, you see a much closer match in overall patterns to the 7D2, with the majority of failures at 10-35k, and a fair chance of some very good numbers afterwards. Still not a completely fair comparison given lots of caveats (user base, age rates, selection bias etc) but interesting.

Using that data I have a 44% chance of getting 250k-500k with a 70D and a 58% chance with a 7D2. I mean sure its measurable, but they're both pretty awesome in my view.

So again, when there is more than anecdotal evidence from a sample size of one (yourself) that shows the one you don't like is better at something than the one you do, you say it's not that significant and they're almost the same. On the other hand, if the one you like seems to you to do something a little better when you use it, that's a qualitative difference. Got it.

There's a pretty significant difference between a chance something will happen 44% of the time and something will happen 58% of the time. Just ask any actuarialist. Vegas sports books make a killing out of the 4% difference between 48% and 52%.

Even with the 60D/70D, the 50% line is around 250K.
For the 7D Mark II the 50% line is between 500K-1M.

That's a big difference.

That does not mean the 60D/70D/80D are garbage. They're very good cameras that are more robust than lesser models in the Rebel line.

But in terms of durability, the 7D Mark II is in an entirely different class than the x0D series. At the time Roger Cicala tore one down in 2014, he said it was the most weather resistant camera he had come across. That would include the 1D X. That would include the 5D Mark III. That would include the 70D and 60D. He's published teardowns on all of them before he did the 7D Mark II.
 
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Otara

EOS RP
Jul 16, 2012
284
65
Numbers like 44 vs 58 are very meaningful if I buy a thousand units. If I buy one, the odds arent really that different in my view, and other factors matter more to me. If they're important to you, thats fine too, it really depends what scale you're using and what rating the other factors might hold, like weight or cost.

I understand that the difference in construction durability is important to you. To me they end up in the same class from a practical perspective, as I explained earlier - mostly fine in rain, dead in seawater to over-summarise. The vulnerabilities are essentially the same to me.

But Im repeating myself, so its probably just value differences or the like.
 

scyrene

EOS 5D MK IV
Dec 4, 2013
2,504
392
UK
www.flickr.com
Spamming with nonsense? Even if your arguments might be actually wrong, it does not mean you are necessarily spamming or trolling. So yes, I actually think, that even then you are entitled for a non-arrogant response.
Interesting how you're prepared to give a very generous pass to one of the most disruptive and least contributory members of this forum, defending or excusing years of bad behaviour, but immediately accuse others of 'arrogance'. I think it's clear where you stand.
 

haggie

EOS 80D
May 11, 2016
150
47
You're the one introducing misrepresentations.
No, dtaylor, you are misrepresenting what I wrote - and clearly want to keep doing so. But in case you just don't understand:
I wrote "You cannot realistically expect that Canon will deliver a camera named xxD and priced at around USD 1400.00 to be as good an action camera as a camera from the xD-series that had a higher introduction price of around USD1700,00 in 2014?"
after the sentence "... Do you expect the 90D to match or even surpass the 7D Mk II as an action camera?"
and after that I used the word "action" another three more times.

Yet, you chose to take the sentence "" out of thay context of action photography and write some general remark suggesting (but not actually claiming ... clever) that the 90D could well outperform the 7D Mk II.
I already showed that your comparison confirms my point in the situation of the 90D vs. the 7D Mk II for action photography.


The question is whether or not Canon would make a lower tier/price point body an equal or better replacement for a once upper tier/price point function. ....
No, it was not. That was the point at hand that you introduced to misreperesentation the text I wrote for whatever reason you have.

Don't be obtuse. You know I was talking about the s variant of the 1D series.
Don't be a wise guy. You could have read that I wrote about action photography, because I used the word "action" 5 (!) times in my post. That should be enough for everybody to get the context right.
 

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,394
828
No, dtaylor, you are misrepresenting what I wrote - and clearly want to keep doing so. But in case you just don't understand:
I wrote "You cannot realistically expect that Canon will deliver a camera named xxD and priced at around USD 1400.00 to be as good an action camera as a camera from the xD-series that had a higher introduction price of around USD1700,00 in 2014?"
Do you think the words "action camera" are magical or something? That by merely uttering them your bald assertion becomes a fact?

Would Canon build a lower tier camera that is equal to or better than a previous higher tier camera for a particular category of photography? The answer is that they have in response to market conditions, and if the market dictates it they will do so again. They respond to the market, not to your personal "woe is me, the sky is falling!" narrative. Just off the top of my head the 5D series took over studio/landscape from the 1Ds series. Go back to the film days and for a full year and a half the EOS 3 blew away the EOS 1 series for action photography. And if we get down to it, the 7D2 itself is practically a 1D IV at a far lower price point. The very camera you're crying about is itself an example of Canon doing something you claim they would never do! :ROFLMAO:

I do not know that the 90D will be the equal of the 7D2, but neither do you know that it will be the lesser. Perhaps it's time to be quiet until it is released. Then you can make your judgement based on the actual camera and not on some inane narrative you've pulled out of thin air.

I don't know which is worse: the Sony fans, or the woe is me, Canon will never do what I want crowd.
 
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neo302

I'm New Here
Feb 28, 2016
24
16
Wanting a feature is perfectly reasonable. Threatening consequences if you don’t get that feature is silly. Unless you happen to own a few million shares of CAJ, your threat is meaningless. Neither Canon nor anyone on this forum care if you buy the 90D, buy a Nikon D500, or buy a soggy piece of toast.
My consequences were that I simply wouldn’t buy it which I only said after I was asked. Amused at the manipulation and the sensitivity. I also never asked if anyone cared as I surely don’t care if you or anyone cares if I buy it.
 

Memirsbrunnr

EOS 80D
Nov 19, 2017
110
60
54
Denmark
It's a step up for 80D users, but 7DM2 owners are a completely different set of buyers.

If Canon intend to merge both series they would be wise to call this model by a completely new nomenclature.

But they won't, because a 7D Mark III will come out for Tokyo 2020 Olympiad. If it does not, I'll eat my shoe.
Just in case, I would suggest to select the smallest best digestible of your pairs of shoes.. :unsure: :LOL:
 

Lee Jay

EOR R
Sep 22, 2011
2,069
51
Having read the discussion, let me chime in with that I have a 7DII at home and an 80D at work. I've done some ultra-high contrast shooting with the 80D at base ISO because of the supposed better base-ISO dynamic range, but I found that the extra, while there, wasn't usable. This is because at least my copy has a very odd sort of banding in the deep shadows where the noise level is different in different rows leading to having to clip the blacks back to about the same place I have to do so on the 7DII images. So I haven't found the 80D's extra dynamic range to be realizable.

Fortunately, base-ISO DR is something I so rarely need that I just shoot HDRs on my 7DII when I need it. At 10fps, I can literally get a 3-shot, 2 2/3 stop HDR (0, +1 1/3, -1 1/3) in 0.2 seconds. That gives me 14+ stops of actually-realizable DR quite easily. And while LR's panorama merging is quite useless, the HDR merging is decent if the steps are close enough together.
 
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neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,607
2,063
My consequences were that I simply wouldn’t buy it which I only said after I was asked. Amused at the manipulation and the sensitivity. I also never asked if anyone cared as I surely don’t care if you or anyone cares if I buy it.
That and it will be lame compared to the competition. Personally, I don’t think a lack of clean HDMI out would make a DSLR lame, but that’s probably because I don’t ever shoot video with a DSLR so I have no need to output it.
 

canonical

EOS 80D
Jul 3, 2019
103
85
That and it will be lame compared to the competition. Personally, I don’t think a lack of clean HDMI out would make a DSLR lame, but that’s probably because I don’t ever shoot video with a DSLR so I have no need to output it.
Canon does not care about your totally insignificant personal wishes, desires and dreams. Clean HDMI out is essential in every mirrorflapping DSLR in order to watch your insignificant stills images on your Sony TV. in 4k of course. lol.
 

stevelee

FT-QL
Jul 6, 2017
1,249
281
Davidson, NC
I wondered about that. Since I never hook a camera up to a TV, I have been wondering why clean HDMI would be important. I occasionally shoot video, but just pop the memory card into the computer and and transfer it with the stills.

I vaguely recall that I might have hooked a camera up to Mother's TV many years ago to show her some pictures, but the connection wouldn't have been HDMI.
 

BurningPlatform

EOS T7i
Mar 4, 2014
85
24
Canon does not care about your totally insignificant personal wishes, desires and dreams. Clean HDMI out is essential in every mirrorflapping DSLR in order to watch your insignificant stills images on your Sony TV. in 4k of course. lol.
Usually "clean HDMI out" means tnat you can output the live signal through the HDMI port to an external recorder, uncompressed, without any overlaid information. I think there are many cameras tbat can play back stills and video through HDMI to a TV without overlayed information but that is not sufficient for "clean HDMI out". Thus, it only matters if you are going to use an external HDMI recorder from the likes of Atomos or Blackmagic.
 

canonical

EOS 80D
Jul 3, 2019
103
85
th
Usually "clean HDMI out" means tnat you can output the live signal through the HDMI port to an external recorder, uncompressed, without any overlaid information. I think there are many cameras tbat can play back stills and video through HDMI to a TV without overlayed information but that is not sufficient for "clean HDMI out". Thus, it only matters if you are going to use an external HDMI recorder from the likes of Atomos or Blackmagic.
thx. i know. but don't care at all about video stuff. i'd like to buy a compact, capable, affordable, pure stills-optimized camera without any video recording and devoid of HDMI connectors, whether they be "clean " or "dirty". :)
 

CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D SR
Jan 28, 2015
4,073
1,620
Irving, Texas
Who cares? EF-M is dead, and EF is not too far behind. If they made cameras that weren't 5 years outdated the day they were released, maybe they wouldn't be hemorrhaging customers at an astonishing rate. Just food for thought...
Here's some food for thought for you: The whole got dang ILC market is hemorrhaging customers. The. Whole. Market. Yet, Canon seems to be losing less than everyone else. Sony is losing market share, BTW. Canon continues to gain.

EF-M will live on. So will EF, especially for those who do not wish to pay the thus far (except the RF 35mm) prices for high end RF L glass.

I just sold my 5D Mark III, EF 35mm f/1.4L II, EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II, EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II, and EF 135mm f/2L. All of it sold in less than 30 hours. I think I got very fair prices and it has paid for my R, RF 24-105 f/4L (sold at a profit), and RF 28-70mm f/2L, along with a new speedlight and Bowens mount 60" modifier. It may also pay for an RF 85mm f/1.2L unless I decide to wait on the RF zoom that I hope will also be f/2. Does that prove your point in any way? No.

Canon will keep making EF glass for a very long time because they are stellar lenses in their own right and are now a bargain compared to RF L glass... and adapt perfectly to the R series without a hitch. As far as your claim that Canon releases cameras that are outdated by 5 years upon release, well the market says different. Sony isn't as popular nor as magical as some of you shills like to push.

Up until about a month ago, Sony users had to buy Nikon or Canon adapters to get any lens longer than 200mm for their magic cameras. Personally, I think Canon is going to make both Sony and Nikon struggle as miserably as Ricoh Pentax in short order. When that happens, the Sony trolls will evaporate because, well, they will have finally realized they spent a lot of money on a sinking ship.
 
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CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D SR
Jan 28, 2015
4,073
1,620
Irving, Texas
Canonical, I hope you are not an accountant by trade. Let’s look at the corresponding EBITDA numbers for imaging divisions. Shall we...
Gotta hand it to him though... it is cute how he has to keep changing his handle every couple of months, claiming there is a problem with this website that forces him to do so. Shall I screenshot the PM he sent me about that? Funny how nobody else runs into that problem. His style changes a tiny bit each time, but he's still easy to spot.
 

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