Canon EOS 90D and Canon EOS M6 Mark II announcements coming at the end of August

4D

EOS M50
Mar 8, 2012
39
4
Wouldn't it be great if the expected 90D skewed heavily towards a camera for us dinosaurs, you know, people that use their camera 99.9999% of the time for taking photos through a big, clear optical viewfinder. Since it could be one of the last DSLR iterations, it makes sense to us, maybe not Canon, to buy a durable camera that comfortably lasted 10 years, and for Canon it would encourage us to keep buying EF lenses.

To save costs and tilt the feature set in favour of a camera closer to what we would expect in a 7DIII, they could leave out all but the most basic of video features, whatever those are, just 1080 22.1 frames, 1.45 cropped, whatever, who cares. There are plenty of other options for those that want high-tech video that many don't need or want.

Then we could get something that wildlife photographers want - a robust camera with decent weather sealing, not necessarily the best, 10+ frame rate and a bump in decent lowlight performance to very usable at 12,800 (happy now at 6400 on 77D). That's about all I want.

I'm sitting waiting patiently with my 7D not doing much unless I'm in a game park, because we use my wife's 77D most of the time because the sensor in lowlight is just so much better. The 77D is a great camera, but it's hers because of the modes on dial, sport etc!, and a touch too small for my preferences.

I swing daily on whether to go for R/RP, downsize to M5 II, or go with a 90D, but what I most want for the next few years is something to match my 100-400 mkII.

I just got my daughter to buy the M50, which seems a great camera for everyday stuff, but holding the 100-400 on it is a joke, and I can definitely say looking at birds and wildlife through the viewfinder all day will not be pleasant. So it's put me off going RF.

Of course, this wish is way too late now, but if by chance they've been reading threads here I think they might have determined an "old-school" inspired DSLR with a great new sensor would go down a treat with the wildlife set for many years.
 

Aussie shooter

@brett.guy.photography
Dec 6, 2016
485
485
I am a Canon user 5DIV and a Rebel SL1. Both very different grades of cameras. I used the SL1 for a trip to Europe and shot with it in drizzle one day and it never had a problem. From what I read the forthcoming 90D will have weather seals. My hunch is it will be a more robust build than previous models in that series, especially if there will not be another 7D upgrade. Just my two cents.
I have little doubt that it will be more robust than the 80d. But I also have no doubt it will be less robust than the 7d2. Will likely also lack dual digics. Maybe won't have two card slots(hope I am wrong there). Joystick? shutter life? It won't be as customizable(if nothing else because it will lose real estate on the left hand side for buttons). There are many ways it can improve on the 80d and still fall short of the truly professional quality body the 7d2 is.
 
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I have little doubt that it will be more robust than the 80d. But I also have no doubt it will be less robust than the 7d2. Will likely also lack dual digics. Maybe won't have two card slots(hope I am wrong there). Joystick? shutter life? It won't be as customizable(if nothing else because it will lose real estate on the left hand side for buttons). There are many ways it can improve on the 80d and still fall short of the truly professional quality body the 7d2 is.
According to specs speculated, it looks to be more in a 7D territory, than it ever was in the 80D territory - dual digic, dual card slot? IIRC never was the case with the xxD line. Weather sealing should be imo OK. Wonder about the joystick. Maybe Canon is trying to create kind of Nikon 500/850 universal soldier.

But - if new 90D does not kind of replace 7DII, I wonder what data Canon had, to give-up on what many ppl might think as a successful model. For me, a bit surprising ...
 

canonical

EOS 80D
Jul 3, 2019
103
85
there is a market share by revenue and market share by units sold and market share by customers
would you mind providing links to this form of "market share" for Canon and imaging gear industry?

if anybody is trolling here, than it is you.

"market share" is typically based on revenue. Canon and some others in the industry trying to base "market share" on "units shipped" (as opposed to sold to customers) irrespective of price (revenue) is rather atypical and definitely less useful as a measure than revenue based market share. CIPA stats therefore provided both poeces of information: units shipped and revenue (based on some form of ex-factory pricing) - but unfortunately they do not break it down by member company in their published reports.

so there you have it. now keep on beancounting and have a grat day.
 
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Aussie shooter

@brett.guy.photography
Dec 6, 2016
485
485
According to specs speculated, it looks to be more in a 7D territory, than it ever was in the 80D territory - dual digic, dual card slot? IIRC never was the case with the xxD line. Weather sealing should be imo OK. Wonder about the joystick. Maybe Canon is trying to create kind of Nikon 500/850 universal soldier.

But - if new 90D does not kind of replace 7DII, I wonder what data Canon had, to give-up on what many ppl might think as a successful model. For me, a bit surprising ...
I don't really get it either. If they had to merge two lines to simplify things it would makemore sense(to me, obviously not to canon) to retain the 7 series and merge the 80 d and 77d. But I don't have access to their books.
 
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Joules

EOS RP
Jul 16, 2017
368
287
Hamburg, Germany
Out of curiosity, is there anything out there that shows just how much worse the 80D is at handling bad weather than the 7D II? As I don't have any truly weather sealed lenses (Sigma 150-600mm C has a rubber gasget at least) and no interest in getting wet myself, I only used my 80D in drizzle. But I did that with my T3i as well without issues, and that had no sealing at all.

Seeing how well the EOS R handled the recent weather sealing test despite having pretty minimalistic sealing according to the lens rentals disassembly got me wondering.

Maybe there is less difference between the 7D II and lower cost models than some might think. At any point, we get into the territory where the question becomes "Is it good enough for most people?", like with DR and so many specs. I guess Canon knows the answer and thinks that to few people care enough about weather sealing under really extreme conditions but are willing to pay a premium so large it pushes the price past FF mirror less offerings.

Also, it seems a lot of people have had either some gripe about softness with their 7D II or moan about the superior AF in the D500. Probably just a loud minority. But the 80D seems to get far less criticism, at least on this forum. If Canon are not interested in putting much money in DSLR specific R&D anymore, it makes sense to focus on the less picky market segment.
 

SecureGSM

2 x 5D IV
Feb 26, 2017
1,335
320
would you mind providing links to this form of "market share" for Canon and imaging gear industry?

if anybody is trolling here, than it is you.

"market share" is typically based on revenue. Canon and some others in the industry trying to base "market share" on "units shipped" (as opposed to sold to customers) irrespective of price (revenue) is rather atypical and definitely less useful as a measure than revenue based market share. CIPA stats therefore provided both poeces of information: units shipped and revenue (based on some form of ex-factory pricing) - but unfortunately they do not break it down by member company in their published reports.

so there you have it. now keep on beancounting and have a grat day.
i am a sales exec if that matters qualified in Financial Selling and Client Value Method s a part of my professional studies.

when you are saying "typically" it is obviously typical to yourself. this is what matters to you, personally, to AvTvM/ Canonical.
and this is where your ever confused state of mind is originated from: this world is not what you think it is. hence you keep changing your forum identities one after another after another. nothing works out and none seems to understand your twisted logic or rather lack of thereof.
bye...
 
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Aussie shooter

@brett.guy.photography
Dec 6, 2016
485
485
Out of curiosity, is there anything out there that shows just how much worse the 80D is at handling bad weather than the 7D II? As I don't have any truly weather sealed lenses (Sigma 150-600mm C has a rubber gasget at least) and no interest in getting wet myself, I only used my 80D in drizzle. But I did that with my T3i as well without issues, and that had no sealing at all.

Seeing how well the EOS R handled the recent weather sealing test despite having pretty minimalistic sealing according to the lens rentals disassembly got me wondering.

Maybe there is less difference between the 7D II and lower cost models than some might think. At any point, we get into the territory where the question becomes "Is it good enough for most people?", like with DR and so many specs. I guess Canon knows the answer and thinks that to few people care enough about weather sealing under really extreme conditions but are willing to pay a premium so large it pushes the price past FF mirror less offerings.

Also, it seems a lot of people have had either some gripe about softness with their 7D II or moan about the superior AF in the D500. Probably just a loud minority. But the 80D seems to get far less criticism, at least on this forum. If Canon are not interested in putting much money in DSLR specific R&D anymore, it makes sense to focus on the less picky market segment.
Short of putting a hose on them I can't give you a demo but the 7d2 is sealed to the 1d level. I am not sure exactly what level the 80d is but I would guess around the 6d level. So third tier. But there are more things than just weather sealing to robustness. More metal, less plastic. Everything inside built just that little bit stronger. All components that bit better quality. These are the areas I imagine the 90d will fall short.
It will absolutely be good enough for most people though. Especially enthusiasts. Not sure how many pros will get it as a serious second body
 
i am a sales exec if that matters qualified in Financial Selling and Client Value Method s a part of my professional studies.

when you are saying "typically" it is obviously typical to yourself. this is what matters to you, personally, to AvTvM/ Canonical.
and this is where your ever confused state of mind is originated from: this world is not what you think it is. hence you keep changing your forum identities one after another after another. nothing works out and none seems to understand your twisted logic or rather lack of thereof.
bye...
Did your professional studies include any lessons on respect to others? :cool:
 

Talys

Canon 6DII
Feb 16, 2017
2,058
329
Vancouver, BC
"market share" is typically based on revenue.
It actually isn't. There are countless examples of where that just isn't so, like a search engine's marketshare, where how many people use it is much more important than how much revenue is generated, or soda on a grocery store shelf, where marketshare reflects unit volumes, or fast food restaurants, where the most important metric is the number of visits. Or television shows, where marketshare reflects viewership.

I'd argue that as an enthusiast, I'm more interested in which system has larger user base than which system sells the most dollars of stuff each year, because more users make it easier for me to buy or sell used equipment.
 

SecureGSM

2 x 5D IV
Feb 26, 2017
1,335
320
Did your professional studies include any lessons on respect to others? :cool:
there is nothing disrespectful in pointing out that Canonical keeps changing identities and keep coming back again and again with confused ideas centered around his own unique (well, twisted) understanding of reality. not sure what part of the world you are coming from, perhaps that justifies your perception..
 

haggie

EOS 80D
May 11, 2016
150
47
in reply to


Why wait for specs, canonical? Do you expect the 90D to match or even surpass the 7D Mk II as an action camera?

You cannot realistically expect that Canon will deliver a camera named xxD and priced at around USD 1400.00 to be as good an action camera as a camera from the xD-series that had a higher introduction price of around USD1700,00 in 2014?
If anything, Canon will not do this even if they could! If the 90D would outperform the 7D Mk II it would then Canon would give it a name in the xD series (not in the xxD-series) for the simple reason that these sell at a higher price level.

And knowing Canon, the 90D will not even match the 7D Mk II in important areas. Don't forget a mirrorless action camera is on the way, no doubt - perhaps even a cropped sensor body. Canon does not want to raise the bar too high for their first step in this area, and therefore alone the 90D will not be comparable to the 7D Mk II.

I have no doubt that the 90D will turn out to be a potent all-rounder and will also have nice performance for action photography (the 80D is not bad either). But in both ergonomics and AF-performance (both of which are essentiel for a top ection camera), the 7D Mk II will certainly not be surpassed.

So EduPortas has a valid point to hold on to his 7D Mk II: the 90D will not be a step up and at this point there is no mirrorless alternative for cropped action photographers.

Isn't Canon famous for releasing 5D cameras that turned out to be equal/better landscape/studio cameras than the 1D bodies, and at cheaper prices?
Yes, dtaylor, the 5D is a fine camera for the purposes you describe: landscape, studio and I myself will even add: for occasional action stills. The 1D-series is the action-beast with terrific performance for action photography. Although the 5D-series is 'derived from' the 1D to some extent, the 5D does not match the 1D as an action camera, let alone that it surpasses the 1D.
The 5D is a (very capable) all-rounder. But in the areas that are important for an action camera (e.g.AF), it falls short of the 1D.

The 90D will be an allrounder because the rumoured specs and all other 'leaks' show clearly it is aimed at a multitude of users (both stills and video). No all-rounder can match the 7D Mk II as an speedy action camera. Just like the 5D never matched the 1D as an action camera.
So anyone with a 7D Mk II will not get a better action camera with the 90D. That was my initial post.
Thanks for effectively confirming my point.
 

Hector1970

EOS 6D MK II
Mar 22, 2012
1,095
273
I will be interested in the 90D when it comes out.
Image quality at higher ISO's will be interesting. I'm not sure how much effort Canon want to put in to make this camera better than a 7DII.
Personally I think I would have a problem replacing a 7DII with a camera with the same FPS.
Most sport I do in broad daylight with fast lens so I can keep the ISO reasonable at high shutter speeds. Mine is getting close is about 4.5 years old, well battered but keeps on working.
If after 5 years Canon bring out a near identical camera in terms of FPS when they could go to 12 or 14 FPS it would be a disappointment to me.
There would be alot of other buyers it would be attractive too especially people looking to upgrade XXD cameras but I'm well past that.
I may be tempted to keep saving and wait for the 1DX III or the first mirrorless 1X series.
 

tron

EOS 5D SR
Nov 8, 2011
4,076
364
I will be interested in the 90D when it comes out.
Image quality at higher ISO's will be interesting. I'm not sure how much effort Canon want to put in to make this camera better than a 7DII.
Personally I think I would have a problem replacing a 7DII with a camera with the same FPS.
Most sport I do in broad daylight with fast lens so I can keep the ISO reasonable at high shutter speeds. Mine is getting close is about 4.5 years old, well battered but keeps on working.
If after 5 years Canon bring out a near identical camera in terms of FPS when they could go to 12 or 14 FPS it would be a disappointment to me.
There would be alot of other buyers it would be attractive too especially people looking to upgrade XXD cameras but I'm well past that.
I may be tempted to keep saving and wait for the 1DX III or the first mirrorless 1X series.
Aren't 10fps enough? I use my 7DII at 8 fps max in order to prolong continuous shooting time.
 

Aussie shooter

@brett.guy.photography
Dec 6, 2016
485
485
I will be interested in the 90D when it comes out.
Image quality at higher ISO's will be interesting. I'm not sure how much effort Canon want to put in to make this camera better than a 7DII.
Personally I think I would have a problem replacing a 7DII with a camera with the same FPS.
Most sport I do in broad daylight with fast lens so I can keep the ISO reasonable at high shutter speeds. Mine is getting close is about 4.5 years old, well battered but keeps on working.
If after 5 years Canon bring out a near identical camera in terms of FPS when they could go to 12 or 14 FPS it would be a disappointment to me.
There would be alot of other buyers it would be attractive too especially people looking to upgrade XXD cameras but I'm well past that.
I may be tempted to keep saving and wait for the 1DX III or the first mirrorless 1X series.
Interestingly enough the fps don't bother me at all. Unlike many I have no interest in more than 10fps(and yes I shoot wildlife including BIF). It just becomes too much crap to sort through for that one good shot.
 

Memirsbrunnr

EOS 80D
Nov 19, 2017
111
60
54
Denmark
If it has the sports specs equal or slightly better than an 7D mII combined with on improved 80D, I will get one. and postpone going for a eos R and get the eos R II when it comes out.
 

AprilForever

EOS 7D MK II
Aug 31, 2010
764
8
aprilforever.com
They should just call it the 7d mk iii. Nix the xxd line. I feel like Canon is trying to push 7d shooters up to fullframe and does not care what we want or think. I feel for all the fans of APS-H... Canon needs a pro-level crop camera, not this nerf nonsense.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,617
2,096
would you mind providing links to this form of "market share" for Canon and imaging gear industry?

if anybody is trolling here, than it is you.

"market share" is typically based on revenue. Canon and some others in the industry trying to base "market share" on "units shipped" (as opposed to sold to customers) irrespective of price (revenue) is rather atypical and definitely less useful as a measure than revenue based market share.
So, top business publications like Nikkei are trolling?
There is a new Nikkei article on the latest global camera market share - here is the recap: the digital camera market is down 22% for 2018, the top five companies hold 85.2% market share with a total of 20,290,000 units (-22.2%):
  • Canon 40.5 % (+ 3.9)
  • Nikon 19.1 % (- 2.7)
  • Sony 17.7 % (- 0.7)
  • Fujifilm: 5.1 % (+ 1.3)
  • Olympus: 2.8 % (+ 0.1)
Top market research firms like IDC are trolling?



BCN reports their rankings as percent of units sold in Japan. As I stated, Canon, Nikon, Olympus, etc., focus on unit sales.

Canon:
Looking at interchangeable-lens cameras, in addition to market contraction centered on entry-class DSLRs, in 2018 we launched three new products that led to a high level of sales in the second quarter of last year. As a result, unit sales for the second quarter this year were down 22% to 1.08 million.
Against this backdrop, we successively launched strategic full-frame models into the mirrorless camera market from the second half of last year. The introduction of a high-end model, further heightened our presence in the market and at the same time had a positive impact on overall sales of our mirrorless cameras.
On the other hand, in the full-frame category of the market where price competition is increasing, as a result of prioritizing profitability, unit sales were below our target. However, for interchangeable-lens cameras overall, our unit sales were in line with our plan. As a result, we retained our full-year projection for unit sales. In terms of revenue, we did lower our projection to reflect a change in product mix to our plan. However, in the second half of the year we will stimulate sales through the launch of new lenses.
Nikon:
But a recent interview given to Nikkei by Nikon CEO Toshikazu Umatate seems to ring a slightly more hopeful tune.

When asked what he thought about the “very harsh” digital camera environment, Toshikazu-san began by admitting that things have been tough. “Our unit sales decreased to less than one-sixth in comparison to fiscal 2012 which is the recent peak year,” he told the publication, “[and] there may be more downside risk ahead.”
In the digital imaging business, there seem to be only two places where market share represents revenue – in Sony’s IR material and press releases, and in the AvTvM Universe. And of those two, only one actually exists in the real world.