Canon EOS 90D and Canon EOS M6 Mark II announcements coming at the end of August

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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I'm not a dedicated wildlife photog, but I do take quite a bit of wildlife pics.

For me the 7D mk2 felt like a minor improvement over the 7D at a highish (at the time) cost. The image quality/dynamic range/low light performance, focus points, tilty screen, etc were noticeable improvements on the 80D from the 7D. ..

The burst rate and weather sealing were probably my main concerns.. but found it was fast enough for most things for me and I was more careful in bad weather. I'm not saying it's right for everyone, but the other capabilities more than made it better than an original 7D (which is what was being said)... probably less so for a 7D mk2.
Can you honestly say you think the 80D AF system is in any way comparable to the 7D Mark II AF system, much less better? Have you ever actually looked through a 7D Mark II viewfinder? Not to mention the additional AF configuration options in the 7D Mark II menu that are absent in the 80D AF menu.

The only place the 80D has better sensor performance (IQ/DR/etc.) is below ISO 400. That's not where most sports/action/wildlife photographers live. Above ISO 800 the 7D Mark II has better DR and, more importantly for low light/high ISO performance, significantly better S/N ratio.

Please stop repeating what the youTube sensationalists spew in order to generate more clicks without actually doing your own homework.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
912
435
I'm not a dedicated wildlife photog, but I do take quite a bit of wildlife pics.

For me the 7D mk2 felt like a minor improvement over the 7D at a highish (at the time) cost. The image quality/dynamic range/low light performance, focus points, tilty screen, etc were noticeable improvements on the 80D from the 7D. ..

The burst rate and weather sealing were probably my main concerns.. but found it was fast enough for most things for me and I was more careful in bad weather. I'm not saying it's right for everyone, but the other capabilities more than made it better than an original 7D (which is what was being said)... probably less so for a 7D mk2.
No one said the 80D was not an improvement over the 7D, which had a few glaring weaknesses.

I'm saying the 7D Mark II was a more significant improvement over the 7D than the 80D was unless your primary concern is DR below ISO 400.

The 7D Mark II has a better, more sophisticated, more configurable AF system than the 80D. By all indications the "90D" is going to have the same 45-point AF system that the 80D has.

At ISO 800 and above the 7D Mark II sensor outperforms the 80D's, particularly in terms of S/N ratio. That's where sports/action/wildlife photographers often live.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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Wonder what the odds are that canon would release the M6 with an R mount and make an adapter to support Ef-m lenses. That would make a nice tie in to get a common mount across the board. Just a thought.
Zero.

Because the lugs on the R mount extend more than 2mm behind the flange, and the throat diameter of the R mount is larger than the throat diameter of the EF-M mount, that is physically impossible. The lugs of an R lens would hit the mounting flange on an EF-M camera before the lens was far enough back for the flange on the R lens to be only 2mm in front of the flange on the EF-M camera.
 

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,387
823
For some of us that uses DSLR to shoot video more than photos, are you saying that we can't demand for mirrorless?
Asking for additional mirrorless bodies and hoping that a new SLR model will fail so that Canon abandons all SLR development are two different things.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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I’m not so sure.. I chose the 80D over the 7D2 and I’m glad I did. I may get ever so slightly fewer sharp images, but I can crop more and I can push shadows more. Which is a big deal in wildlife shooting.
Are you typically shooting below ISO 400? If not, you might be surprised that the 7D Mark II sensor outperforms the 80D above about ISO 800.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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I am a Canon user 5DIV and a Rebel SL1. Both very different grades of cameras. I used the SL1 for a trip to Europe and shot with it in drizzle one day and it never had a problem. From what I read the forthcoming 90D will have weather seals. My hunch is it will be a more robust build than previous models in that series, especially if there will not be another 7D upgrade. Just my two cents.
More robust than the SL1 does not necessarily mean as robust as the 7D Mark II.
 

neo302

I'm New Here
Feb 28, 2016
24
16
As opposed to the standard ‘it had better have X feature or else’?
I’m providing feedback around important features I’m looking for. I want to buy Canon, but won’t if they don’t provide what I need. You obviously don't appear to care what people are looking for or helping Canon profits. I’m not a sheep.
 

snappy604

EOS RP
Jan 25, 2017
254
118
Can you honestly say you think the 80D AF system is in any way comparable to the 7D Mark II AF system, much less better? Have you ever actually looked through a 7D Mark II viewfinder? Not to mention the additional AF configuration options in the 7D Mark II menu that are absent in the 80D AF menu.

The only place the 80D has better sensor performance (IQ/DR/etc.) is below ISO 400. That's not where most sports/action/wildlife photographers live. Above ISO 800 the 7D Mark II has better DR and, more importantly for low light/high ISO performance, significantly better S/N ratio.

Please stop repeating what the youTube sensationalist spew in order to generate more clicks without actually doing your own homework.

first off.. that's a shitty assumption "Please stop repeating what the youTube sensationalist spew in order to generate more clicks without actually doing your own homework." . Everything I said was 100% my experience, I have had this for a few years now. I also had a 7D mk1 for 6+ yrs. The comment was against a 7D mk1... as I indicated and you mis-read.
Can you honestly say you think the 80D AF system is in any way comparable to the 7D Mark II AF system, much less better? Have you ever actually looked through a 7D Mark II viewfinder? Not to mention the additional AF configuration options in the 7D Mark II menu that are absent in the 80D AF menu.

The only place the 80D has better sensor performance (IQ/DR/etc.) is below ISO 400. That's not where most sports/action/wildlife photographers live. Above ISO 800 the 7D Mark II has better DR and, more importantly for low light/high ISO performance, significantly better S/N ratio.

Please stop repeating what the youTube sensationalists spew in order to generate more clicks without actually doing your own homework.



You have two very different posts near each other.. won't quote both.. but my premise was replying to 'EduPortas' who said "
This forum has documented lots of you guys are still using the original 7D every day, either for work or pleasure. My anecdotal experience confirms this.

Stepping down to a 90D does not seem like a wise choice."

going from a 7D mk1 to a 90D would not be stepping down, an 80D was a big improvement over the 7D Mk1.

this is 100% my experience. your comment is lazy/shitty "Please stop repeating what the youTube sensationalists spew in order to generate more clicks without actually doing your own homework.".. . I only rarely look at youtubes about cameras and only if I'm trying get a grasp of capabilities. I owned/own a D60 (6mpx!), several G series, 40D, 7D mk1 (over 6yrs of heavy use) and an 80D (3yrs or so). I speak from my experiences and I know it won't fit everyone's needs, but it's not re-hashed from others..

as for your comments about 7d Mk2 vs 80D.. yes the differences from a 7D mk2 vs an 80D are much less, but it doesn't negate the 80D from taking pretty decent wild life pics and having added capabilities. The advantages of a 80D over a 7D mk1 are huge!, over an 7D mk2.. it's a harder discussion, but 80D is much cheaper and is a good camera.. which is my premise. Will the 90D be 7D III level for some of the people that push it to the max? probably not, but it will be pretty good.

img_001.jpg



this was on my 80D.. it tracks fairly well, good DR etc. This image is even lower quality than it should be as it was re-processed from FB.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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Wouldn't it be great if the expected 90D skewed heavily towards a camera for us dinosaurs, you know, people that use their camera 99.9999% of the time for taking photos through a big, clear optical viewfinder. Since it could be one of the last DSLR iterations, it makes sense to us, maybe not Canon, to buy a durable camera that comfortably lasted 10 years, and for Canon it would encourage us to keep buying EF lenses.

To save costs and tilt the feature set in favour of a camera closer to what we would expect in a 7DIII, they could leave out all but the most basic of video features, whatever those are, just 1080 22.1 frames, 1.45 cropped, whatever, who cares. There are plenty of other options for those that want high-tech video that many don't need or want.

Then we could get something that wildlife photographers want - a robust camera with decent weather sealing, not necessarily the best, 10+ frame rate and a bump in decent lowlight performance to very usable at 12,800 (happy now at 6400 on 77D). That's about all I want.

I'm sitting waiting patiently with my 7D not doing much unless I'm in a game park, because we use my wife's 77D most of the time because the sensor in lowlight is just so much better. The 77D is a great camera, but it's hers because of the modes on dial, sport etc!, and a touch too small for my preferences.

I swing daily on whether to go for R/RP, downsize to M5 II, or go with a 90D, but what I most want for the next few years is something to match my 100-400 mkII.

I just got my daughter to buy the M50, which seems a great camera for everyday stuff, but holding the 100-400 on it is a joke, and I can definitely say looking at birds and wildlife through the viewfinder all day will not be pleasant. So it's put me off going RF.

Of course, this wish is way too late now, but if by chance they've been reading threads here I think they might have determined an "old-school" inspired DSLR with a great new sensor would go down a treat with the wildlife set for many years.
Well, compared to the original 7D, the 7D Mark II is already the robust camera you describe. It's an entirely different class of camera than the original 7D.

If Canon does not introduce a 7D Mark III (which by definition would be a DSLR - any mirrorless replacement for the 7D Mark II would not be a "Mark" anything) I'm sure there are many 7D Mark II users that will continue to use then until they give up the ghost and are no longer repairable.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
912
435
According to specs speculated, it looks to be more in a 7D territory, than it ever was in the 80D territory - dual digic, dual card slot? IIRC never was the case with the xxD line. Weather sealing should be imo OK. Wonder about the joystick. Maybe Canon is trying to create kind of Nikon 500/850 universal soldier.

But - if new 90D does not kind of replace 7DII, I wonder what data Canon had, to give-up on what many ppl might think as a successful model. For me, a bit surprising ...
I'm surprised by both Canon's and Nikon's decisions to abandon the 7D Mark III and the D500 replacement, respectively. Apparently they both think the future of such cameras is in the new mirrorless mounts.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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Out of curiosity, is there anything out there that shows just how much worse the 80D is at handling bad weather than the 7D II? As I don't have any truly weather sealed lenses (Sigma 150-600mm C has a rubber gasget at least) and no interest in getting wet myself, I only used my 80D in drizzle. But I did that with my T3i as well without issues, and that had no sealing at all.

Seeing how well the EOS R handled the recent weather sealing test despite having pretty minimalistic sealing according to the lens rentals disassembly got me wondering.

Maybe there is less difference between the 7D II and lower cost models than some might think. At any point, we get into the territory where the question becomes "Is it good enough for most people?", like with DR and so many specs. I guess Canon knows the answer and thinks that to few people care enough about weather sealing under really extreme conditions but are willing to pay a premium so large it pushes the price past FF mirror less offerings.

Also, it seems a lot of people have had either some gripe about softness with their 7D II or moan about the superior AF in the D500. Probably just a loud minority. But the 80D seems to get far less criticism, at least on this forum. If Canon are not interested in putting much money in DSLR specific R&D anymore, it makes sense to focus on the less picky market segment.
By most accounts from those that have actually used both, the D500 seems to have a slightly better AF system than the 7D Mark II. I've not shot with a D500.

The 7D Mark II *definitely* has a better, more configurable AF system than the 80D. I have shot with both of them.

The reason you don't hear folks complaining about the 80D AF system compared to the Nikon D5600 or D7500 is because AF performance is not usually one of the most important features to typical 80D or D7500 buyers.
 
Zero.

Because the lugs on the R mount extend more than 2mm behind the flange, and the throat diameter of the R mount is larger than the throat diameter of the EF-M mount, that is physically impossible. The lugs of an R lens would hit the mounting flange on an EF-M camera before the lens was far enough back for the flange on the R lens to be only 2mm in front of the flange on the EF-M camera.
What? Are you saying, that it is not technologically solvable to offer EOS-R with an APS-C chip? Any such idea has imo nothing to do with an M mount and its parameters. And that's what I understand wsmith96 was asking for - to break the compatibilty with an EOS-M and make it a history ....
 

Jasonmc89

EOS 80D + 100-400mm mkii
Feb 7, 2019
138
97
UK
Are you typically shooting below ISO 400? If not, you might be surprised that the 7D Mark II sensor outperforms the 80D above about ISO 800.
I can shoot at anything all the way up to iso 2000 and get keepers. I’ve read that is the case but one thing I’ve noticed is the quality of colours from the 80D sensor. Processed shots still look nicer to me from the 80D!

Here’s an example of an iso 2000 shot, the file size had to be reduced to upload it here too!
 

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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
912
435
If it has the sports specs equal or slightly better than an 7D mII combined with on improved 80D, I will get one. and postpone going for a eos R and get the eos R II when it comes out.
Which is precisely why Canon will not give you the option of a 90D that is an improvement over the 7D mark II for sports. We're already pretty sure the 90D will only have a marginally updated version of the 80D's 45-point AF system, rather than an update of the 7D Mark II's more configurable 65-point (all cross-type) AF system.

They want to sell R lenses now, not later.

Most shooters such as you already have plenty of EF lenses in your bag. Canon seems convinced that as soon as DSLR shooters buy an R body, they'll start replacing their EF glass with R glass en masse.
 

3kramd5

EOS 5D MK IV
Mar 2, 2012
3,082
404
What did I say that make you observed that I hope it will "fail" (your word, not mine)?
“I hope this 90D will be a major flop for Canon, forcing them to create a mirrorless equivalent immediately.”

One might be able to claim a difference in degree between “flop and fail,” but not when qualified with the second half of your hope.
 

Trey T

EOS 80D
Feb 6, 2019
104
47
“I hope this 90D will be a major flop for Canon, forcing them to create a mirrorless equivalent immediately.”

One might be able to complain a difference in degree between “flop and fail,” but not when qualified with the second half of your hope.
If you hear the truth, by me articulating it, would you still accept that you're wrong, or at least listen?