Canon EOS 90D full specifications

djack41

EOS 80D
Jul 12, 2014
149
103
Where did the data in that Table come from? And have you interpreted the data correctly?
1. The 5DSR has the same battery as the 7DII and 5DIV, so they also have the same voltage limitations as the 5DSR for driving AF servos.
2. The table has the AF accuracy of the 5DSR better than that of the 7DII in all cases, contradicting your statement that the AF of the 5DSR is not the equal of the others.
3. Slow frame rate certainly does not imply considerable shutter lag - the slow frame rate for the 5DSR results from slow data transfer after image capture, not lag before capture. Imaging resources has measured the shutter lags of the of those cameras, and those of the 5DSR are very close to those for the 7DII: full AF wide/mid is 0.25s for the 7DII and 0.27s for the 5DSR, and for prefocussed (the usual case for BIF), 0.052 and 0.057s respectively.
So, the numbers you have presented don't support your arguments and according to your logic show that the 5DSR is better for BIF than the 7DII.
I believe I said the 5DSR is not the equal of other options. Did I say "all others"? Correct me if I am wrong.

As to voltage, the 7D2 and 5D4 can boost the voltage internally which allows them to drive the ultra-sonic servo motor of the lens a bit faster. The 5d3 and 5DSR do not have this capability. The 1DX2 uses a larger capacity Li-ion pack to drive the len's servo quicker than other Canon bodies.

I own a 7D2 but rarely use it for BIF as it has a dated AF and poor ISO performance. But I would choose the 7d2 over my 5DSR for BIF in some circumstances because it has advantages such as superior FR and buffer.

The 5D4 and 1DX2 are much better choices than the 5DSR or the 7D2 for BIF. Shutter lag exists with all cameras but is an important consideration when shooting in AI-servo. Cameras with more shutter lag make it more difficult for the camera to accurately predict focus when shooting fast moving subjects. The Gen3 AF module and software found in the 5D4 and 1DX2 do a much better job of predictive focusing in AI-servo....aided by less shutter lag.

Comparisons between the dated 7D2 and the 5DSR is a little fruitless. Better camera options than the 5DSR are provided by Canon.

The 5DSR has a older generation AF, very slow FR and a small buffer. It does not drive the AF servos of super tele lenses as quickly as the 5D4 or 1DX2. It does not handle tele-converters well and lacks the cross type AF points of the 5D4 or 1DX2.

To each his own but I do not want to miss capturing the critical, split second pose of a BIF because of a slow FR, small buffer or dated AF.
 

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,435
2,591
Would you actually call those 'data'? Beyond the most basic 'no units, no answer' they look like nothing more than someone's subjective evaluations on a 'rate from 1 to 10 with 10 being best' scale.

Clearly, based on the 'data' below, cucumber slices represent the optimal afternoon snack. :p

View attachment 186134
Actually, they are rated on a 1-100 scale with 100 being best from the www.canonisdoomed.com site. It is truly remarkable what junk is dragged up on occasion as evidence, especially when it contradicts the case being presented.
 
Aug 22, 2019
1
0
This camera will be a nice update to my ageing EOS 50D that I’ve had since 2012. I’ve been considering the 7d mark 2 but when this is released It will be on my wish list.
 

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,366
775
I own a 7D2 but rarely use it for BIF as it has a dated AF and poor ISO performance. But I would choose the 7d2 over my 5DSR for BIF in some circumstances because it has advantages such as superior FR and buffer.
I think it's fair to say you want a higher frame rate or deeper buffer for action shooting. But it is personal preference, and others will make the trade off for the exceptional resolution of the 5Ds/sr (or other high MP body in another line).

Shutter lag exists with all cameras but is an important consideration when shooting in AI-servo. Cameras with more shutter lag make it more difficult for the camera to accurately predict focus when shooting fast moving subjects.
Pre-focused shutter lag is a measure of how fast the camera can move the mirror out of the way and fire. Shutter lag with AF is a measure of how fast the camera can acquire the target (determine focus and drive the lens to that position) and move the mirror out of the way. Shutter lag with AF is obviously affected by the lens itself and by the amount by which the lens is out of focus.

You're correct that bodies like the 1DX2 can drive the lens faster during initial acquisition for a shorter AF shutter lag, but other Canon bodies including the 5Ds/sr can drive it pretty fast as well. As for pre-focused shutter lag, I believe that's nearly identical among Canon's "pro" bodies even going back a generation or two.

Once a target is acquired tracking AF movements are relatively small. There's no voltage related advantage here and the shutter lag is essentially the pre-focused time unless the camera has lost the target and is trying to re-acquire.

It does not drive the AF servos of super tele lenses as quickly as the 5D4 or 1DX2. It does not handle tele-converters well and lacks the cross type AF points of the 5D4 or 1DX2.
I think you're making a mountain out of a small hill. There were certainly improvements in the 1DX2 and 5D4. But they were refinements to an AF system that has been refined for three decades. The AF system in the 5Ds/sr, which you're suggesting might cost you a critical moment shot, is equal to or better than the AF systems in all of the EOS 1 and 1D bodies prior to the 1DX2. I don't recall 1D3 owners complaining about missed BiF shots due to slow AF. For that matter I don't recall EOS 1v or EOS 3 owners complaining about this either.

I don't have the stick time on a 5D4 to truly judge the improvements. I believe Alan does and would trust his input. But again, if you want high MP shots of BiF the 5Ds/sr are up to the task. If you want a faster frame rate and deeper buffer there are other choices.
 
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Randywayne

I'm New Here
Oct 9, 2018
22
24
I'm just waiting to see the first real world sample photos. I use my 5D IV daily and also shoot with my a7III quite a bit but would love another Canon APS-C body, if for no other reason than to use a couple of favorite EF-S lenses that have been collecting dust for a couple of years now.
 

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,435
2,591
It's interesting to see how this discussion developed. It started with the provocative opinion:
With it's slow FR and small buffer, the 5DSR is a poor choice for BIF. JMHO
There is no doubt that the 1DXII is Canon's flagship for action shots. But, just because it is the best, it doesn't mean that other Canon models are poor choices - they may be not as good, but that doesn't make them "poor". If you know how to use them and their limitations, you can get great shots from all Canon models.
To back up the opinion, it was then stated
it produces excessive noise at higher ISOs vs a 1DX2, 5D4, D5, D850 or A9.
This was shown to be incorrect. Then it was written
The slow frame rate produces is considerable shutter lag.
Which again, is incorrect.
There may be better choices for BIF in Canon's repertoire as well as in other manufacturers', but it doesn't make a 5DSR, a 7DII or other models poor choices.
 
Aug 22, 2019
6
4
I think you make fairly decent points here but if you have a 7DII its not a compelling upgrade.
Weather sealing would be important to me (I'm in a wet country). The 7DII is pretty robust in this regard.
I'd need to see some real world usage of it to be convinced.
ISO performance will be of interest. If it were a considerable improvement that would be useful.
I use it alot for sport. It's an insignificant improvement in FPS. I don't know why they didn't go to 12 FPS. That would be a selling point.
I don't seem to have found a real use for Wifi so far in a camera.
Flippy screen might be useful but its a point of failure.
200g less would be nice but not a deciding feature.
The MP isn't an attraction for me. It's wasted on sport generally but in other genres like birds it would be an asset.
I think I will continue on with the 7DII until if fails (which could be anytime from now on as I'd say it has a massive shutter count)
Yes I agree that the 90D might be an underwhelming upgrade for current 7dii owners (and a no go for people who need dual card slots) but for people like me looking for a decent wildlife camera I think the 90D would make more sense than the 7dii, as long as the AF system is improved from the 80D.
 

dslrdummy

EOS RP
Aug 28, 2012
330
88
Given the 7D line is obviously dead, the 90D reads like a very capable sports and wildlife camera for those of us not in the market for a full frame body . The MP boost is very welcome. IQ and low light performance are important considerations for me, as I'm sure they are for many. Looking forward to the official release and initial reviews.
 

djack41

EOS 80D
Jul 12, 2014
149
103
It's interesting to see how this discussion developed. It started with the provocative opinion:

There is no doubt that the 1DXII is Canon's flagship for action shots. But, just because it is the best, it doesn't mean that other Canon models are poor choices - they may be not as good, but that doesn't make them "poor". If you know how to use them and their limitations, you can get great shots from all Canon models.
To back up the opinion, it was then stated

This was shown to be incorrect. Then it was written

Which again, is incorrect.
There may be better choices for BIF in Canon's repertoire as well as in other manufacturers', but it doesn't make a 5DSR, a 7DII or other models poor choices.
So, if the 5DSR's very slow FR, small buffer, dated AF, and lack-luster ISO performance satisfies your needs for BIF, go for it. But it obviously is a poor choice given the other available options. It is a very fine landscape, studio, and perched bird camera. I like my 5DSR but accept and admit its limitations. Enjoy.
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,089
1,566
Canada
I see a lot of people disappointed/stating that the 90D won't be a replacement of the 7Dii.
Other than it is not called 7Diii (some egos bruised by a xxD name?) and doesn't have 2 card slots I am failing to understand why it is not an improvement to the 7Dii?

32mp vs 20mp
Dual Pixel AF on both
10-11fps vs 10fps
1/16000sec max shutter speed vs 1/8000
Iso 100-25600 vs 100-16000
Touch & flippy screen vs not
WiFi vs No Wifi
700g vs 900g
Joystick on both
Possibly a better DR on the 90D

I understand the 7Dii has 65 points AF and the 90D will only have 45 but until we see the performances of the new AF system we can't say it is not an improvement. I'd rather have 45 faster & accurate points than 65 less reliable ones.
I was considering getting a 7dii for wildlife but to me, at least on paper, the 90D will do what the 7dii does and a bit more.
So are the missing second card slot and the allegedly lower weather sealing the only two things making it not a 7dii upgrade?
As a 7D2 owner, if I were buying now and had to choose between the two, I would get the 90D. Gee.... who would have thought that 5 more years of development would result in a better product......
 
Oct 14, 2013
3
1
I expect we're going to find out that the crop free 4K on the 90D and the M6 II are not full sensor readout scaled down to 4K. I'm guessing it's either line skipping or pixel binned and scaled to 4K. Hence the "through image processing" * in the promo videos.
I agree. And we can guess what it's likely to be from the fact that it produces a nominal 6960 x 4640 still picture:
  • Cropped 4K will obviously be the center 3840 x 2160 pixels. That's an incredibly tiny area: only 55% of the width and less than half of the sensor area. Combined with the 1.6x APS-C crop, that's a total crop factor of 2.9x relative to full frame.
  • Uncropped will almost certainly be skipped or binned from the 6960 x 4640 image into a 3480 x 1958 or "3.4K" intermediary image that is finally upscaled and compressed. (Or it might be slightly less than 3.4K if digital IBIS is available and enabled.)
If this uncropped 4K mode is pixel binned and not pixel/line skipped, the image quality will likely be a massive step up from 1080p on the 80D. Otherwise it will probably have relatively poor low light performance as well as high sensitivity to moire artifacting.

Meanwhile, enthusiasts would probably love it if Canon could offer a "3.4K" output resolution so they could scale it in their video editor—perfect for people targeting ultra high quality 1080p. Unlikely to ever happen until Magic Lantern finally makes it to the 90D in another three to five years.
 
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Aug 22, 2019
1
0
As someone that is interested in getting started with photography (especially wildlife) would this be a good model to start with?

BR Alejko
 
Aug 13, 2019
1
0
I've just had it on hands from a friend at APKNite. I can say that if they put dual pixel in 4k without crop and good dynamic range, this camera will clean up. But will they? Or will Panasonic, Sony and Blackmagic carry on laughing to the bank?
 

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,435
2,591
So, if the 5DSR's very slow FR, small buffer, dated AF, and lack-luster ISO performance satisfies your needs for BIF, go for it. But it obviously is a poor choice given the other available options. It is a very fine landscape, studio, and perched bird camera. I like my 5DSR but accept and admit its limitations. Enjoy.
By the same token, as you are shooting by spec sheets, your 1DXII is a poor choice compared with a Sony A9, which has much faster FR, superior AF with far more points and better tracking, and higher DR at high iso. But, just maybe, the skill of the photographer comes into it.
 

tron

EOS 5D SR
Nov 8, 2011
4,002
313
The big question (and requirement) for me. Programmable buttons just like 7DII, 5DsR, etc...
 
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tron

EOS 5D SR
Nov 8, 2011
4,002
313
...
As to voltage, the 7D2 and 5D4 can boost the voltage internally which allows them to drive the ultra-sonic servo motor of the lens a bit faster.
...
I remember seeing this about 7D2 but where did you see it for 5D4?
 

TPatS

I'm New Here
Aug 20, 2019
19
12
The main feature that tells me that the 7d3 will never come is the joystick on the 90D. Why? Well cast your mind back to the year 2010. The 7d had just come out. And it took its place as the flagship aps c camera. Before that it was the x0D line which acted as the flagship aps c model. To ensure that the models were put into their right place, from the transition from the 50D to the 60D, canon removed the joystick from the body AND reduced the fps rate to ensure that the 7d was king. But now that the joystick is back on the 90D model along with a substantial fps increase says to me that the exact reverse of 2010 is happening. And why, well the only possible explanation is if there was hole in the lineup that needed to be filled.. The 7d3....