Canon EOS 90D Specification List [CR1]

Dantana

EOS 80D
Jan 29, 2013
199
48
Los Angeles, CA
www.flickr.com
Another Canon XXd? What's next, going to analog camera again?

The market in on mirrorless cameras. There's no doubt. All other things are a nonsense.
Well, I just got back from a 2 week honeymoon/vacation in Italy (Rome, Florence, Tuscan small town). We were in some very touristy areas in Rome and Florence. I saw a lot of 80D's, 70D's, Rebels, and Nikon APC DSLR's. I also saw quite a few 5D 4's (and a few I couldn't see the version), and some Nikon FF. I saw very few mirrorless, mostly Sony and Fuji and a couple M's. A surprising number of older looking point and shoots of all kinds. And of course, mostly phones.

The 80D's stood out though (unless of course there is a trend I don't know about to use an 80D strap for a different body). There were an awful lot of them in the crowd.

I realize this is just what I noticed in a couple places on vacation, but it did standout. I'd say a lot of normal folk like the XXD and that Canon thinks they are still going to like them later this year.

Oh, and Italy was amazing. I want to go back, like right now.
 

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,196
481
The 80D's stood out though (unless of course there is a trend I don't know about to use an 80D strap for a different body). There were an awful lot of them in the crowd.
I see a lot of 80D's and 5D's in general. The 80D quite frankly makes sense, it's a good camera with a good kit at places like Costco.

For all the "Canon is doomed / DSLRs are dead horses" talk I was surprised at the last Miramar airshow to see a Sony MILC. That's one Sony MILC on one of the days. The entire show was Canon and Nikon DSLRs.
 

Jasonmc89

EOS 80D + 100-400mm mkii
Feb 7, 2019
49
39
UK
Just got back from Costa Rica and all I could see was 7Diis, 80Ds, 5D4s, a couple of 1D serieses, Nikon D500s and the like.. (One guy I got chatting to had the Nikon 500mm pf.. Uhh the envy..) But I’d say the most common body of all was the 7Dii.

The few people I did see using mirrorless cameras where the type that take a photo of a sloths arse from 50 meters away with a kit lens. Think I saw like 1 Sony.
 
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scyrene

EOR R
Dec 4, 2013
2,399
250
UK
www.flickr.com
A friend and his adult son did an extensive trip last fall to Morocco, Barcelona, a John Wesley tour of England, and a bunch of other places. The son documented the trip by taking selfies and shots of his dad. I could barely make out were they were because of the heads occupying most of the frame. I know what they both look like. Still, I was glad to get the updates. I just wished that I could have seen more of the places they visited.

I did try a selfie last year. Someone who knew I was going to the A10 conference tournament in Washington, DC, told me to take a selfie with Archie Bunker's chair. The results didn't inspire me to do any more selfies:
There's no way to say this without coming across as rude, but that is a classic 'older person who has no idea how to take a selfie' selfie. As with any type of photograph, selfies take work - there's technique there, and in some ways it's harder than other types of shot because we see ourselves very differently to how a camera does (and it can be awkward getting the right angle etc). The first bird pic I took wasn't great, but I persevered. It's a rare thing indeed for one's first attempt at anything to be good!

(I do agree though that some people take/post too many, and it can get boring, but conversely I have next to no photos of myself from most of my life/any of the places I've visted, and years later I regret that).
 
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stevelee

FT-QL
Jul 6, 2017
1,017
153
Davidson, NC
There's no way to say this without coming across as rude, but that is a classic 'older person who has no idea how to take a selfie' selfie.
Not rude at all. You are stating a fact, one that was sort of my basic point. I will concede that other folks take nicer ones. They have better subject matter than an old guy and an old chair. I made three tries. This was the least bad of the lot.

However, I would defy anyone to do a lot better under the circumstances without using more equipment and without cajoling someone else to take the picture (and therefore not a selfie). It was hard enough to take a cell-phone shot of the chair in its location even without sticking my head in. And I realize I could make this a little better in Photoshop.
184706
 

pmjm

Primary body: 5D Mk IV
Sep 8, 2016
22
2
Would you mind sharing which adapter you have been using and how well it works? I've been considering the Fringer but haven't ordered since they are in the process of switching over to a new V2 of their EF-FX Pro.

I have been using a K&F Concept adapter for my old manual focus Nikkor lenses. It works fine in it's limited way but I would prefer a fully functioning AF adaptor for my Canon lenses.
I'm using the Fringer and it works exceptionally well, but make sure you check the lens compatibility list, and know that it will drain your battery faster.

I haven't taken many stills with it, but so far I feel like it might actually work better for video than it does for stills. In terms of video, continuous autofocus feels about as responsive as it does on my 5D4. It's able to keep a Sigma 50-100 locked onto a face even at f/1.8.

I don't own any Fuji lenses to compare with, but I can't imagine they could do much better than what I'm already seeing.
 
Reactions: Graphic.Artifacts
Sep 25, 2017
4
0
United Kingdom
45 AF points would be an odd choice, seeing as Canon have the 65 point array in their parts bin from the 7D2. I note that the 19 point array of the 7D wasn't included in the first xxD camera to follow it (just 12 months later) but was in the next. Given how old the 7D2 and 80D are now, there seems no point in holding this feature back especially if there is a desire to bring both model lines together.

I don't shoot a lot of video so it doesn't matter that much to me, but I'd be surprised to see any video capability that's better than current mirrorless or full frame offerings.

I really like the rear dial and joystick on the 7D2 but also the tilty flippy screen of the 80D. I'd happily accept a smaller screen if it meant I could have both in one camera.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
575
246
It's not a step up from the 7dII but it is a step sideways. You lose the weatherproofing and joystick but gain a flippy screen and 60% more megapixels for greater cropping ability. The FPS doesn't change but I'm guessing with improvements in the processor the focusing probably is at least equivalent to the current 7dII and might even have a few dual cross types. I'd also strongly suspect that if you flip out the screen you will have the same focusing capabilities the R has, with edge to edge focusing capabilities and eye tracking.
The 7D Mark II has 65 AF points, all of them cross-type. It also uses iTR (shared with the 1D X Mark II and 5D Mark IV) that uses an integrated processor (in addition to the dual DiG!C processors) to combine distance information from the PDAF sensor with color information from the RGB+IR light meter to assist in tracking moving subjects in AI Servo AF.

The 45 point AF system (as seen in the 6D Mark II, 80D, 77D, and even the Rebel T7i/800D) is definitely a step down from the AF system in the 7DII.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
575
246
Looks like a big step up from the 80D and actually surpasses the vaunted D500 in many major aspects unless anyone gives a darn about number of AF points.
It surpasses the 7D MII by quite a bit and looks like 7D type of specs with dual Digic and dual slots as well as 10FPS especially with the high res sensor.
It's not just the number of AF points, it is what you are allowed to do with them.

The current 45-point AF systems lacks several thing the 7D Mark II currently has:

- Single AF point with AF assist 4-point expansion (4 points on the left, right, above and below the primary AF point)
- Single AF point with AF assist 8-point expansion (8 points surrounding the primary AF point)
- The 9-point Zone AF in the 45-point AF system is not the same thing as equal weight is given to all nine AF points rather than the selected AF point in the center having more weight and the other four or eight points being used a assist points.
- Six customizable AF use cases that are instantly switchable without even taking one's eye from the viewfinder using custom control button mapping
- EOS iTR that uses a dedicated processor (in addition to the dual DiG!C processors) to combine distance information from the PDAF sensor with color information from the RGB+IR light meter to assist in tracking moving subjects during AI Servo AF at high continuous frame rates. When combined with the customizable AF use cases iTR can be a very powerful tool to configure the camera to track the way one needs based on different shooting scenarios.
- Wider frame coverage. The 65-point AF system of the 7D Mark II covers a much wider part of the frame than the 45-point system used on the 80D, 77D, and Rebel T7i/800D.
- More cross type points active to f/8
- More dual cross type points more sensitive with f/2.8 and wider lenses

The current 65-point AF system of the 7D Mark II is the same level AF system found in the 1D X Mark II and 5D Mark IV.
The current 45-point AF system of the 80D is a couple of steps below in terms of configurability, coverage, and tracking performance.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
575
246
Given that this is supposed to be a merge with the 80D/90D, then a slight dumbing down is to be expected. Reasonable from a 2015 A.D. perspective. Not so hot in 2019. The M5 Mk II might have to be the savior.
No mirrorless camera Canon has ever made comes remotely close to being able to continuously track moving subjects at 10 fps, which the 7D Mark II does very well.
 

AlanF

5DSR
Aug 16, 2012
5,035
1,821
It's not just the number of AF points, it is what you are allowed to do with them.

The current 45-point AF systems lacks several thing the 7D Mark II currently has:

  • Single AF point with AF assist 4-point expansion (4 points on the left, right, above and below the primary AF point)
  • Single AF point with AF assist 8-point expansion (8 points surrounding the primary AF point)
  • The 9-point Zone AF in the 45-point AF system is not the same thing as equal weight is given to all nine AF points rather than the selected AF point in the center having more weight and the other four or eight points being used a assist points.
  • Six customizable AF use cases that are instantly switchable without even taking one's eye from the viewfinder using custom control button mapping
  • EOS iTR that uses a dedicated processor (in addition to the dual DiG!C processors) to combine distance information from the PDAF sensor with color information from the RGB+IR light meter to assist in tracking moving subjects during AI Servo AF at high continuous frame rates. When combined with the customizable AF use cases iTR can be a very powerful tool to configure the camera to track the way one needs based on different shooting scenarios.
  • Wider frame coverage. The 65-point AF system of the 7D Mark II covers a much wider part of the frame than the 45-point system used on the 80D, 77D, and Rebel T7i/800D.
  • More cross type points active to f/8
  • More dual cross type points more sensitive with f/2.8 and wider lenses
The current 65-point AF system of the 7D Mark II is the same level AF system found in the 1D X Mark II and 5D Mark IV.
The current 45-point AF system of the 80D is a couple of steps below in terms of configurability, coverage, and tracking performance.
The 7DII also has centre spot focus, which is invaluable if you are focussing on a small object against a background, such as a bird in a tree. The absence of centre spot stops me from buying an 80D.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
575
246
The question is what is selling. If the 7D line is fading more quickly than the 80D line, then Canon may decide to abandon the 7D. That would make sense. A few years ago, total DSLR sales, in the industry, were 13 million. It’s now much less, and continuing to shrink.

The fewer sales, the fewer models. Something has to go. It will be the least sustainable lines. Obviously, Canon is transitioning over to mirrorless full frame. They want to pull DSLR users to that, whether they are FF users, or APS-C users. APS-C is shrinking more than FF is, so that makes sense too.

Only Canon knows where their sales are in the various models, and where they seem to be going. They also have some idea as to which users are moving to which R body. And, they have at least one new R body coming out before too long, as well as more lenses.
The reason the 7D line is not selling currently is because it has been five long years since it was updated. Everyone who wants one has been holding off for the last couple of years waiting on an update with a better sensor. Sensor performance is the only thing that needs to be significantly improved from the 7DII for action/sports shooters. But that's a big one when deciding to pull the trigger and buy a 7D Mark II in 2019. If Canon does not make a 7D Mark III, they've pretty much intentionally conceded the APS-C sports/action segment to the Nikon 500D and its successors.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
575
246
What is the deal with using the joystick for AF point selection anyway? I hardly ever use it on the 5D4, for me it's much faster using the two wheels with thumb and index finger for horizontal and vertical shift of the AF point instead ...
Many of us prefer to reserve those for manual Tv and Av adjustment on the fly.

Dual card slots in an "80D Mark II" so to speak is a hint towards a 7D2 replacement type of camera. The 90D may be really the 7D Mark II replacement and have all the bells and whistles of the 7D2 and then some.
The 80D already has dual card slots. That's not a 7D2 "only" feature at present.

That makes sense, from the viewpoint of what canon offers. But if the sales of the 7D Mk II is declining faster than Canon likes to see, I think there are more factors.

About a year ago I was heavily attacked by the usual members of this forum when I wrote about my observation that many people with a 7D or 7D Mk II that I spoke to, both in my home country and abroad, were thinking about switching to the D500. These facts apparently were not very welcome. I do not know about the people I spoke once when abroad, but I know since then 3 of my friends have sold their 7D / 7D Mk II and bought the Nikon D500.

That has given me the opportunity over the last 1 1/2 year to do a fait bit of comparisons (I wrote a bit about that in other posts I made), and the D500 is undeniably better than the 7D Mk II in 2 areas:
(1) AF-performance with erratically moving subjects and also with subjects that have less contrast (in particular in less than ideal lighing conditions);
(2) sensor performance where noticeably the Dynamic Range of the D500 allows post-processing where for instance skies that are bleak in the 7D Mk II still have realistic colors and saturation and also for instance the underside of wings or fuselage of aircraft show details with the D500 where the 7D Mk II does not (or you must push so hard that the Noise becomes too high).
What I mean to say is: there may also be other reasons that the sales of the 7D Mk II may not be what they were.

And there is one more thing with regards to sales of the 7D Mk II. A few months ago a representative of Canon was asked about the 7D Mk III in relation to competing the D500, and his answer was that Canon was perfectly happy with competing the D500 on price. That for me was an indication that Canon might not come up with a 7D Mk III at all. And I thought this for the same reasons that you mention: costs developing, building and maintaining a new high-end action camera are huge. With the end of the DSLR approaching it is not in Canon's business interest to take big risks there.
Again, the main reason sales of the 7D Mark II are currently so low is that it has been five years since it was rolled out. If Canon had introduced a 7D Mark III with nothing more than the 80D sensor in an otherwise 7D Mark II body in 2018, they would be selling boatloads of them right now. A LOT of 7D Mark II users have been waiting for a couple of years for the next model so they can upgrade.

Up until about a year ago, both Canon and Nikon were saying the exact opposite for years, that mirrorless was a fad, that mirrorless cameras were toys which couldn't compete with "pro-grade" DSLRs, that the weight advantages were offset by lenses anyway, both companies were committed to DSLRs for decades to come, etc. Funny how quickly it all changed.
With the near total disappearance of the true "pro" sports/action/reportage photographer (it's much worse now than it was in 2015 when that article was published), which has been Canon's core high end market since the EOS system was rolled out in 1987, there's not much need for true "pro-grade" sports/action/reportage cameras. What is driving the high end market now is what most wealthy "semi-pro" and "enthusiast" shooters with lots of money to spend want: cameras and lenses that are spec sheet champions.

Unless they have caught up and/or surpassed Sony's current sensor with this new design. They've known for a while their iterations of the same basic sensor was lacking in speed capabilities, and have been delayed (compared with the last decade) in releasing a new sensor design. I suspect they had hoped this was ready a year ago to put in the R. There has been at least a year fap in releasing new sensor base designs, the R and RP were just repackaged tweaked designs. 32 seems like a very large jump, buy it's all relative. It's only a 25% bump. The 18 to 24 bump that happened between 7dmkii and the 80d was the same percentage.
The 7D Mark II is 20.2 MP (just like the FF 1D X Mark II with proportionally larger photosites). The original 7D was 18 MP (Just like the FF 1D X with proportionally larger photosites).

Well, again, it depends on the sales Canon has for the current models. If the 7 is selling well, that’s one thing, but if the 80 is selling well, then it’s another. We know that APS-C sales across the board are dropping faster then the high end models. This is for all manufacturers, but Canon’s sales last quarter were worse, mostly, apparently, because of fast dropping APS-C sales.

It’s difficult. Higher end FF cameras are doing fairly well, but not APS-C. It’s very possible that Canon is also losing some DSLR APS-C sales to the R and even the M lines.

I don’t know what to recommend, because I don’t have the data. None of us here do. We just talk about what we would want them to do, which is very different from what they should do. Other than a lucky guess, perhaps.
Again, maybe the main reason the 80D is selling better than the 7DII is because one came out in 2014 and many shooters have been waiting for the last couple of years to buy its overdue replacement while the other came out in 2016 and those more interested in an 80D type camera are just now putting on the brakes waiting to see what is going to happen next?

It's 4x the area, but only 2x the amount of lines. If there's a limited amount of lines per second that can be read from the sensor, which seems to be the case for Canon, 4k60 would mean 1080p120.
But each line is also twice as wide, in terms of pixels. That's 4X the number of pixels that must be processed.

5DIV has dual digic, the second one is used for metering and tracking ....
The 7D Mark II has dual DiG!C 6 processors for image processing plus another metering/tracking processor for iTR.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

Noise at ISO200 is nothing to do with the lens. All sensors struggle with very strong reds, such as newly-opened poppies.

All Mark II superteles were designed for 100MP+ sensors
All Mark II Super telephotos were designed for 100MP+ Full Frame sensors, which is approximately the same pixel density as 40 MP on an APS-C 1.6X crop sensor.

Indeed: check the specs.

-Check the number of AF-points: the D500 has 153, the 7D Mk II has 65.

-Check the number of cross-type AF points: the D500 has 99, the 7D Mk II has 65.

-Check the number of f/8 AF-points: the D500 yes, the 7D Mk II no.


Because specs often do not tell the whole story (compare Sony specs to Canon specs and then how some of them actually perform), it is relevant to know how the AF system actually performs.

And then the better specs of the D500 are confirmed to give better AF performace in real life.
The AF system of the D500 is quite generally desctibed to be more advanced, more precise and more customizable than that of the (much older) 7D Mk II.
This is particularly the case for fast moving subjects.
And this is even more the case where the lighting is low or otherwise not ideal and/or where the subject has low contrast.
- Check and see how many of those 153 "AF points" on the D500 are actual, user selectable, AF points instead of "virtual" AF assist points. (Hint: it's 55)

- Check and see how many of those 99 "Cross type AF points" on the D500 are actual, user selectable, AF points instead of "virtual" AF assist points. (Hint: it's 35)

- Check the 7D Mark II again. The center AF point plus the surrounding 4/8 when used as "AF Assist points" for the center AF point are rated to f/8.

There's no denying the D500 has a great AF system that does outperform the 7D Mark II AF system in some ways, but there is no need to exaggerate that difference.
 
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Architect1776

Defining the poetics of space through Architecture
Aug 18, 2017
195
154
117
Williamsport, PA
It's not just the number of AF points, it is what you are allowed to do with them.

The current 45-point AF systems lacks several thing the 7D Mark II currently has:

  • Single AF point with AF assist 4-point expansion (4 points on the left, right, above and below the primary AF point)
  • Single AF point with AF assist 8-point expansion (8 points surrounding the primary AF point)
  • The 9-point Zone AF in the 45-point AF system is not the same thing as equal weight is given to all nine AF points rather than the selected AF point in the center having more weight and the other four or eight points being used a assist points.
  • Six customizable AF use cases that are instantly switchable without even taking one's eye from the viewfinder using custom control button mapping
  • EOS iTR that uses a dedicated processor (in addition to the dual DiG!C processors) to combine distance information from the PDAF sensor with color information from the RGB+IR light meter to assist in tracking moving subjects during AI Servo AF at high continuous frame rates. When combined with the customizable AF use cases iTR can be a very powerful tool to configure the camera to track the way one needs based on different shooting scenarios.
  • Wider frame coverage. The 65-point AF system of the 7D Mark II covers a much wider part of the frame than the 45-point system used on the 80D, 77D, and Rebel T7i/800D.
  • More cross type points active to f/8
  • More dual cross type points more sensitive with f/2.8 and wider lenses
The current 65-point AF system of the 7D Mark II is the same level AF system found in the 1D X Mark II and 5D Mark IV.
The current 45-point AF system of the 80D is a couple of steps below in terms of configurability, coverage, and tracking performance.
Guess I don't really care about all those points.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
575
246
The 7DII also has centre spot focus, which is invaluable if you are focussing on a small object against a background, such as a bird in a tree. The absence of centre spot stops me from buying an 80D.
I assume you are referring to what Canon calls "Single Point Spot AF?"

The 7D Mark II allows Single Point Spot AF at all 65 AF points, not just the center AF point.
 
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AlanF

5DSR
Aug 16, 2012
5,035
1,821
I assume you are referring to what Canon calls "Single Point Spot AF?"

The 7D Mark II allows Single point Spot AF at all 65 AF points, not just the center AF point.
Precisely, it's Spot AF, introduced in the 7D https://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/infobank/focus_points/a_single_focusing_point.do "The EOS 7D introduced a new single AF point mode called Spot AF. On a normal autofocus sensor, the sensor for each point is actually larger than the AF point shown in the viewfinder. Spot AF uses the same AF point to perform focus but the area it uses is much smaller – only fractionally larger than the AF point displayed in the viewfinder."
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
575
246
Precisely, it's Spot AF, introduced in the 7D https://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/infobank/focus_points/a_single_focusing_point.do "The EOS 7D introduced a new single AF point mode called Spot AF. On a normal autofocus sensor, the sensor for each point is actually larger than the AF point shown in the viewfinder. Spot AF uses the same AF point to perform focus but the area it uses is much smaller – only fractionally larger than the AF point displayed in the viewfinder."
I found it to be pretty flaky with the 7D. But then again, I found the entire AF system of my 7D to be pretty flaky. The shot-to-shot variation was ridiculous. What good does it do to make such a highly configurable AF system if it can't decide whether to front-focus or back-focus from one frame to the next!

It works much better for me with the 7D Mark II and the 5D Mark III than it did with the 7D.
 
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