Canon EOS R body with more than 75mp on the horizon [CR2]

[dtaylor]

I really want to see a 5dsr 2 come out, hopefully mirrorless. I do like high resolution bodies, and with the new RF lenses this should be a great combo. I really hope though that they can pull this off with DR at least as good as the 5D4. I was hoping for something around 50 mp, basically a mirrorless 5dsr. And although storage is cheaper than ever, 75 mp files would be just crazy large. So maybe just making a really, really good 50 mp sensor in a more 5d-like R body would not be such a bad idea. I think that’s what a lot of us 5dsr owners would go for. Or maybe just me.

The trade offs that people imagine exist for high resolution sensors do not actually exist, at least not at this point in 35mm sized sensors. Using the same technology a Canon 50mp sensor is not going to have any advantage over a 75mp sensor except file size.

Low ISO DR is driven primarily by ADC architecture and not pixel size as evidenced by the fact that Sony/Nikon 42/45mp 35mm sensors have the highest tested DR. Not lower resolution 35mm sensors, or even MF sensors with much larger pixels. For that matter the 5Dsr had the highest DR of any Canon DSLR until they released bodies with on-chip ADCs.

Total image noise at high ISO is also unaffected by pixel size. Higher resolution files look worse when you pixel peep. They look better viewed at the same print size.

Depending on sensor readout speed, and the method used to scale down to 4k or 1080p, a higher resolution sensor could be at a disadvantage for video. But not for stills.

 

[3kramd5]

I'm not. Its been said that DPAF, by virtue to the fact that it forces the pixels to be smaller may hinder the image quality. I am hoping that at Dual Pixel Raw Mode is more usable on future cameras. I may start using it more on my 5D4.

That may have been said, but it isn’t necessarily true and there is no evidence of it (there are no sensors which are otherwise the same with which to compare).

Low ISO DR is driven primarily by ADC architecture

I find that unlikely. DR is a function of well capacity and noise. The ADC likely doesn’t add significant noise (quantization error), and it doesn’t improve well capacity.

QE in the other hand is of significant importance.

 

[analoggrotto]

Fair enough, good conversation on the matter. The 5D4 sensor is such a leap above the 5D3's; I hope they can keep the momentum for the next gen.

 

[dtaylor]

I find that unlikely.

Observation trumps theory. The available evidence shows large changes in DR with changes in ADC architecture (off chip vs. on chip) yet the highest DR sensors available today have relatively small pixels (D8x0 series; A7r3).

 

[dave7]

I'd love better low light performance more than higher megapixels but both would be nice.

 

[captainkanji]

I’m definitely interested. I guess I’d better start saving. Gonna need a decent tripod.

 

[6degrees]

Hope for RF 20mm F1.2. But will be fine if RF 24mm F1.2.

Another one is RF 85mm F1.2.

With option switch of de-click for the front control ring/aperture ring, like those offered on Sony GM lenses. The screw drive option on Zeiss Loxia is acceptable.

 

[3kramd5]

Observation trumps theory. The available evidence shows large changes in DR with changes in ADC architecture (off chip vs. on chip) yet the highest DR sensors available today have relatively small pixels (D8x0 series; A7r3).

That’s overall system architecture, not ADC architecture.

It’s not scientific (no control group) but sure, it’s better than blind speculation.

 

[Grimbald]

Lots of talk about the body, but I am surprised so little talk about the lens mention. Am I the only person to whom the phrase that jumped out is the upcoming best landscape lens in Canon's lineup? Doesn't anyone besides me want to know what that is?

Maybe the 14-21 f1.4?
Or a 11-24 f2.8?

With all the fantastic lenses that Canon has, I've always felt that they could do a bit better with their super wide angle selection. They did a great job with the 16-35 III but they sort of lack a 14-24 (such as Sigma or Nikons great choices) and a something that could compete against the 14 f1.8.



For the body.... I just hope it will not be crippeld in terms of DR/low light and offer an option to compromise files down to smaller RAW sizes.

 

[3kramd5]

For the body.... I just hope it will not be crippeld in terms of DR...

Can you name an ILC body from the last decade with crippled dynamic range?

 

[Nelu]

Another pointless megapixel race, without IBIS,high dynamic range and and flawless working Eye detection this seems overkill.

This seems to be a high resolution camera for landscape, architecture, etc, therefore I don't give a damn about eye detection and IBIS.

 

[sanj]

Bye bye DSLR. Much much sooner than I anticipated.

 

[SaP34US]

Uncropped would have to be sampled from a lot more than 6K on a 75MP camera, unless they skip lines.

Samlped form 8k

 

[Talys]

Just a thought, CR3 makes 75MP much more palatable than CR2, or Sony's compressed raw option (which has quite a noticeable drop in quality). I wonder what the CR3 (compressed) file size will be.

If Canon gets the rest of the camera right, I think it might be one I buy -- a high megapixel camera would be a nice tool in the kit.

 

[YuengLinger]

No offence, but you obviously did not understand my post.

I'll put it more simply. People trash Canon for not being innovative and for being conservative. And now, on this thread, people trash Canon for being too innovative and not conservative enough. So people are trashing Canon regardless. If all you do is trash Canon regardless of what they do, I would consider that to be trolling. Got it?

I'm not tracking the people you see as offenders, meaning I don't know who is complaining both ways. But it is so easy to just lose patience and call those who don't share enthusiasm a troll. From what I understand, a troll is somebody who, perversely, posts in a forum for the sole purpose of angering reasonable forum members.

But what I'm reading in this thread, for the most part, is understandable frustration, skepticism, and concern. You might not agree with such sentiments, but people spending thousands of dollars, sometimes unwisely in terms of their own budgets, get emotional, cynical, and even bitter. If they are posting simply to express their feelings (and I'm seeing quite the surge in newer members since the EOS R was released), are we to just call them all trolls--without even engaging first to find out what their actual issues might be with a Canon releasing a 75 MP before, say, a best in class 40-50 MP? (Maybe Canon has discovered the Holy Grail of sensor tech, who knows?)

Now if I tell you that it would be nice if Canon made a dSLR as good as the Nikon D850, would you call that trolling? I don't think it is. Yes, Canon makes calculated, clear-eyed business decisions that have kept it the leader, but, as a customer, I can't help look at the competition and think to myself, I wish Canon made one like that. So, while I support the development of higher resolution bodies and lenses for those seeking such specifications, I'd also like to see Canon addressing the desires of many other photographers who, like myself, aren't seeking more MP at this time.

Is it rude to say, "Hey, what about me? My photography desires deserve priority!" while in a thread about rumored gear a member doesn't find appealing? In a way, yes, I'll grant you that, dak723. But it's an open forum with relaxed rules about staying on topic, and people react with their first thought, little filtering. I don't think it is helpful to just classify such posts as trolling, because, one, they are not, and two, it doesn't help the thread, the person posting, or the general feeling of goodwill that CR manages to maintain better than many other sites.

Just my opinion!

 

[highdesertmesa]

"About damn time," is what I will say as I unbox it.

 

[Adelino]

My feeling is that the "R" is the introductory model, and that what comes next will be painfull to our bank accounts

Canon have said they release higher and lower models.

 

[dtaylor]

...are we to just call them all trolls--without even engaging first to find out what their actual issues might be with a Canon releasing a 75 MP before, say, a best in class 40-50 MP? (Maybe Canon has discovered the Holy Grail of sensor tech, who knows?)

I won't call them trolls, but I will point out (again) that there's no reason to believe a 50mp sensor would be better than a 75mp sensor for a given level of technology. I'm not saying higher pixel density never involves trade offs. But at this point in time it doesn't seem to involve any trade offs for the pixel densities we're seeing in APS-C and 35mm sensors.

Now if I tell you that it would be nice if Canon made a dSLR as good as the Nikon D850, would you call that trolling?...So, while I support the development of higher resolution bodies and lenses for those seeking such specifications, I'd also like to see Canon addressing the desires of many other photographers who, like myself, aren't seeking more MP at this time.

If you're not seeking more MP then what does the D850 really offer over the 5D4? The only thing that stands out is a higher frame rate when using a battery grip. Even the DR gap is so narrow, in this comparison, as to be of little practical value.

 

[Quarkcharmed]

Good one. I'd probably buy it. 75mp sounds like a little bit of overkill though. Even for my landscape photography. Although if there's a special low-light and HDR 18mp mode with oversampling from 75mp, it'd be very nice.

 

[proutprout]

To all the haters who trashed this camera : canon please take my money ! 75M pix dont make sense but it’s a good enough reason to but something we dont need ! Better than 75M, please Canon deliver a new R pro line with IBIS, 120fpsHD, so i can finally find a way to spend 10k !