Canon EOS R Mark II in testing [CR2]

sportskjutaren

Pro sports photographer
There are no action-oriented mirrorless cameras that work, because EVFs are too slow.
First of all, I do not think Canon is "bad" in any way.
I truly dislike "fanboy-ism", and I love the competition between the brands.
Since it gives people/photographers better products.

I used Canon gear for 10 years.
10 years of experience shooting sports. Even at an international level.
(Right now I´m having a "timeout" from photography, I will hover get back to it pretty soon).
(You can find my portfolio with references and tear sheets here: https://jkpgsportsphoto.photoshelter.com/).
Earlier this year I did a two-week-long evaluation on Sony gear.
Two A9 Bodies and several lenses.
I was truly skeptical about some things.
And that for sure included the EVF.
I was seriously surprised and I can honestly say that I prefer the EFV on the A9 over the OVF on the 1Dx mkII.
You can read my evaluation here:
https://blog.jkpg-sports.photo/2019/06/im-seriously-surprised-or-my.html
 

Photo Hack

Hi there
Apr 8, 2019
145
186
Savings on 8 gray market bodies at about $800 less for each = $6,400
Cost of what would have otherwise been a warranty repair: $350
Net savings: $6,050.
At the time Canon 5D Mark IV's were selling for $3,300 or so and I got them in the $1,900 range and also got a 10% eBay bucks promo. That's a savings of about $1,500 per body. The $800 example may be true of today as I haven't been paying attention to the 5D bodies as we're transitioning to mirrorless right now.

Some of our bodies we saved $1,500 on and others were in the $800 range. But it averaged out to just over $1,300 each I believe.

The real deal right now is on the 5Ds. Like $2,500 difference or something like that?
 
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Photo Hack

Hi there
Apr 8, 2019
145
186
Please share the extra $200 promo, I'm not seeing it
They’re one time usage from what I’ve read. So someone who isn’t using the promo would have to share it I think.

The other option is getting the one from Adorama with the free Flashpoint Zoom flash and selling that for about $200. It’s a $270 flash. So that takes you down to $1,299.

Or Amazon is matching the promo and there’s a cash back option if you have their card to match BHs deal or close to it.

Look it up on slickdeals.com for more info.
 
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Photo Hack

Hi there
Apr 8, 2019
145
186
First of all, I do not think Canon is "bad" in any way.
I truly dislike "fanboy-ism", and I love the competition between the brands.
Since it gives people/photographers better products.

I used Canon gear for 10 years.
10 years of experience shooting sports. Even at an international level.
(Right now I´m having a "timeout" from photography, I will hover get back to it pretty soon).
(You can find my portfolio with references and tear sheets here: https://jkpgsportsphoto.photoshelter.com/).
Earlier this year I did a two-week-long evaluation on Sony gear.
Two A9 Bodies and several lenses.
I was truly skeptical about some things.
And that for sure included the EVF.
I was seriously surprised and I can honestly say that I prefer the EFV on the A9 over the OVF on the 1Dx mkII.
You can read my evaluation here:
https://blog.jkpg-sports.photo/2019/06/im-seriously-surprised-or-my.html
Wow you have great work and your review was well done. It’s not my line of work, but I knew Sony’s advancements with the A9 is something I feel a lot of Canon Nikon shooters underestimate.

If Canon is as serious about mirrorless as they’ve recently appeared to be, they have a lot to learn from Sony. Especially in customer feedback as that’s not the first time I’ve heard about your experience with that.
 
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CanonFanBoy

Really O.K. Boomer
Jan 28, 2015
4,701
2,621
Irving, Texas
What's wrong with wanting 2 card slots? It certainly is not mandatory but if given the choice I will take two over one. I am not going to do paid work with a one slot camera unless I have a way to back up the images onsite. I guess different risk profiles for different folks. I am a glass half full kind of guy.
The problem isn't wanting two card slots. The problem is with people saying two card slots differentiate a dual card camera as "pro" from one with just one slot. They take the shooter completely out of the equation and that smacks of gear snobbery... even though old pro 35mm film shooters only used on film roll. Two card slots do not make one a professional. Some want it. Some couldn't care less. However, saying two cards slots make a camera a professional camera is just plain stupid. There is no such thing as a pro camera, just pro photographers. Problem is, enthusiast outnumber pro shooters by a a long shot. The pros just happen to be more vocal because of ego. Redundancy is nice to have, but it doesn't make the shooter any better at anything. Same bad or good shooter no matter what.
 
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dwarven

EOS T7i
Dec 12, 2019
76
107
Thats fine and dandy if you are somewhere with a good signal and a large cellular data plan. I prefer 2 card slots and a hard drive to back the data up to in the field. I don't think two cards are a deal breaker, but given the choice between one and two I am taking two.
That's not how it works, at least in the R. You turn on wifi in the camera and it creates its own network that you then connect your phone to. So it doesn't matter if you're in a city or in the mountains. It will work the same either way. Transfer speeds are actually pretty quick and the 1.6 update fixes an issue where your camera would lock up if you're doing long bursts. Once you're in an area with wifi or a good connection you can set up your phone to automatically backup your gallery to a cloud service. Now that I think about it it's actually probably even better to do it that way than using two card slots, as a water resistant phone with a good case is more durable than a camera. Bring a battery pack for your phone and 2 or 3 extra batteries for your camera and you should be good to go for a whole day.

The caveat is that they are JPGs, which is, understandably, a dealbreaker for some people. However, I imagine that once cameras start shipping with AC access points, then transferring RAW files will become trivial.
 
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sportskjutaren

Pro sports photographer
Wow you have great work and your review was well done.
...
Especially in customer feedback as that’s not the first time I’ve heard about your experience with that.
Thanks!
I do really hope that some Canon people are "lurking around" here.
I would honestly love to see Canon (& Nikon) catch up on Sony in several areas.

(As I wrote above, competition is a great thing).
For Canon to actually do that.
It´s my honest opinion, based on my personal experience.
That they will need to open their ears a whole lot to their customers.
Start asking their pro customers about what they can improve.
And actually listen to it.

Sadly I can´t even remember Canon asking me what to improve.
I´ve suggested some things for them.
One thing was implemented. Some years after I, and several others asked for it.
(In-camera cropping. Submitting images straight from the camera for "live publishing", something I´ve done for more than 200 games.
That makes a big difference).
Other things have not happened yet.

In comparison, every single person I meet from Sony asked me what could be improved.
Often several times.
Most of the things I told them about, they were already aware of, from other photographers.
And most of those things were improved on the A9 II.

Canon pretty much listens actively only to their Ambassadors, and doesn't really seem to listen to the rest of us.

I do really hope that Canon improves big times in this area in the future.
 

telemaque

Before Sunset
Nov 30, 2019
68
30
First of all, I do not think Canon is "bad" in any way.
I truly dislike "fanboy-ism", and I love the competition between the brands.
Since it gives people/photographers better products.

I used Canon gear for 10 years.
10 years of experience shooting sports. Even at an international level.
(Right now I´m having a "timeout" from photography, I will hover get back to it pretty soon).
(You can find my portfolio with references and tear sheets here: https://jkpgsportsphoto.photoshelter.com/).
Earlier this year I did a two-week-long evaluation on Sony gear.
Two A9 Bodies and several lenses.
I was truly skeptical about some things.
And that for sure included the EVF.
I was seriously surprised and I can honestly say that I prefer the EFV on the A9 over the OVF on the 1Dx mkII.
You can read my evaluation here:
https://blog.jkpg-sports.photo/2019/06/im-seriously-surprised-or-my.html
First of all, congratulations for the pictures. They are Beautiful !
I very much like the picture of the French flags during world cup... Yes I am French, obviously!
What I like in your post is that you show examples to illustrate your statement.

I am not a pro like you but an amateur that spends some time and money in photography and videography.
I have seen in the last years the competition becoming more than serious. It is no more a Canon or Nikon world.
I spoke with a pro photographer in Paris in my prefered photo shop and he had moved to Sony A9 and showed me many B&W beautiful pictures.
They looked a bit like Leica's type of photos. Impressive.

The game is changing, the offer is larger and some specific requests especially in DSLR video world are better listen to in other brand names than Canon.
Like no headphone jack on the 6D, no 4K quality in many DSLR bodies for a long time etc.
This has damaged the image of Canon somehow.

EVF is clearly needed for video shooters... they might be helpful in Photography but are simply a need in Video.
However, from your explanation you really enjoyed EVF in Photography... so I read your statement with interest !

In Video, EVF is the only way to correct the focus as you record...
Liveview was a good attemp to go around that need but an EVF is simply better in Video.

An EVF request a mirrorless body and Canon is seriously investing in mirrorless bodies...
So maybe DSLR video shooters loving Canon's products might be listen to?!
Maybe Canon has finally understood DSLR video shooters are a good commercial target?
And yes we ARE! And no we are not the same target as the C camera series professional target.

Let's hope this announcement is showing Canon has understood the needs of DSLR video shooters also.
If that is the case, Canon will be delighted by some sales they today do not see.
 

Photo Hack

Hi there
Apr 8, 2019
145
186
That's not how it works, at least in the R. You turn on wifi in the camera and it creates its own network that you then connect your phone to. So it doesn't matter if you're in a city or in the mountains. It will work the same either way. Transfer speeds are actually pretty quick and the 1.6 update fixes an issue where your camera would lock up if you're doing long bursts. Once you're in an area with wifi or a good connection you can set up your phone to automatically backup your gallery to a cloud service. Now that I think about it it's actually probably even better to do it that way than using two card slots, as a water resistant phone with a good case is more durable than a camera. Bring a battery pack for your phone and 2 or 3 extra batteries for your camera and you should be good to go for a whole day.

The caveat is that they are JPGs, which is, understandably, a dealbreaker for some people. However, I imagine that once cameras start shipping with AC access points, then transferring RAW files will become trivial.
The Gnarbox 2.0 looks like a nice option...did I say nice? I meant expensive.




But really, I’m probably going to buy one going from 5D IV to R.
 

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
6,341
4,429
......
Most of the things I told them about, they were already aware of, from other photographers.
And most of those things were improved on the A9 II.

Canon pretty much listens actively only to their Ambassadors, and doesn't really seem to listen to the rest of us.

I do really hope that Canon improves big times in this area in the future.
Asks us? Ask 2 CR members and you will get 3 opposite views.
 

edoorn

EOS RP
Apr 1, 2016
269
192
It's no secret Canon has always been very 'Japanese' in their market approach. Meaning: they just consider their home market more important, and what the designers will think of, we will have to buy. To put it a bit more harsh: our opinion, of the clients, is simply inferior to their own thinking. In their hierarchy, clients are NOT at the top of the pyramid.

It's been working for decades, but in recent years this view has been tilted upside down. Partly because Sony's approach; also maybe because internet / social media makes customers better heard.

So they have to swallow their pride, and start listening better to customers.
They could ignore it, but this would mean loss of market share and ultimately, failure, and loss of 'face'. And that scenario is far worse for them.

I do think that this insight has already landed and we're seeing results coming to market now. We've seen the M6 II being very capable, firmware updates to improve the R in a big way, a 70-200 which is truly innovative and will benefits pro with the lighter weight and smaller packing size, etc. Also, I heard someone from my local Canon branch say that they now actually get a response whenever they forward product feedback to HQ in Japan (previously, they just heard crickets).
 

StoicalEtcher

EOS RP
Jan 3, 2018
257
161
Yorkshire
Thanks!
I do really hope that some Canon people are "lurking around" here.
I would honestly love to see Canon (& Nikon) catch up on Sony in several areas.

(As I wrote above, competition is a great thing).
For Canon to actually do that.
It´s my honest opinion, based on my personal experience.
That they will need to open their ears a whole lot to their customers.
Start asking their pro customers about what they can improve.
And actually listen to it.

Sadly I can´t even remember Canon asking me what to improve.
I´ve suggested some things for them.
One thing was implemented. Some years after I, and several others asked for it.
(In-camera cropping. Submitting images straight from the camera for "live publishing", something I´ve done for more than 200 games.
That makes a big difference).
Other things have not happened yet.

In comparison, every single person I meet from Sony asked me what could be improved.
Often several times.
Most of the things I told them about, they were already aware of, from other photographers.
And most of those things were improved on the A9 II.

Canon pretty much listens actively only to their Ambassadors, and doesn't really seem to listen to the rest of us.

I do really hope that Canon improves big times in this area in the future.
Sportskjutaren,

I'll start by saying great posts - and love the work examples that you have posted!

It's great that Sony let you have the opportunity to try out their latest gear, and it seems very impressive. I'm not one of the members that will bash Sony just because they aren't Canon - like you, I believe competition is good, and that advances by one will help to boost the others, in a virtuous circle. I also belong to the school of thought that believes all the majors have excellent gear, and what matters most is the ape behind the camera, not the gear itself.

Having said that though, while it is disappointing that Canon have never asked you for your feedback, I'd suggest the reason Sony did is because you were specifically on a trial they are/were running to convert pros across to their platform, and the reps around you will have been primed to be asking trialists what they thought etc? (I'm only speculating, of course, but that is how the corporate world tends to work).

For what it's worth, I'm not a Canon Ambassador, but I have been invited along to Canon events, given new gear to use, and then been questioned about what I thought, what would make it better, how did it compare, etc. Not suggesting I'm anything special, rather that this is what the manufacturers do : run trials/sessions/whatever, where they are trying to obtain feedback.

If any Canon market researchers ever do lurk here, then hopefully they'll notice your comments and quality work, and invite you along to something soon :)

To finish: not trying to knock your well reasoned and provided thoughts - I found them very interesting - but to say that Canon do also specifically ask for feedback at times, and that Sony may well be on a specific project for this at the moment.

Cheers. Stoical.
 

Ph0t0

EOS M50
Mar 27, 2015
33
13
The problem isn't wanting two card slots. The problem is with people saying two card slots differentiate a dual card camera as "pro" from one with just one slot. They take the shooter completely out of the equation and that smacks of gear snobbery... even though old pro 35mm film shooters only used on film roll. Two card slots do not make one a professional. Some want it. Some couldn't care less. However, saying two cards slots make a camera a professional camera is just plain stupid. There is no such thing as a pro camera, just pro photographers. Problem is, enthusiast outnumber pro shooters by a a long shot. The pros just happen to be more vocal because of ego. Redundancy is nice to have, but it doesn't make the shooter any better at anything. Same bad or good shooter no matter what.
Well we are talking about equipment so it kind of makes sense to take the shooter out of the equation.
And as with any gear - the more rugged and durable it is, the more options it has, the more likely it is that it will be branded as a "pro" product.
So I totally understand that a camera that can take more abuse, that has better IQ, offers more backup options and more goodies compared to the rest of the line-up is by most people considered a pro camera. Heck I think even a 5 year old can understand that.
Why some people have the need to shout about that there is no such thing as pro gear... That I don't understand.
 

sportskjutaren

Pro sports photographer
...
Having said that though, while it is disappointing that Canon have never asked you for your feedback, I'd suggest the reason Sony did is because you were specifically on a trial they are/were running to convert pros across to their platform, and the reps around you will have been primed to be asking trialists what they thought etc? (I'm only speculating, of course, but that is how the corporate world tends to work).
...
I´m happy to read that they asked You for things that the can improve.
That said. I´ve talked to several others that tried Sony gear or been to events arranged by Sony.
And they come to the same conclusion as me.
Sony is much, much better at listening, and are by far much more actively asking questions!
And it´s my honest impression that the reason is that Sony really wants to improve their gear.

I think that this becomes very clear in the changes between the A9 and the A9 II.
To me, it´s really clear that they actually listened to the feedback from many photographers.
And implemented a whole lot from that feedback.
If Canon would have as big "ears" as Sony.
There are some adjustments that are software related that would have been implemented years ago.

One example, that I suggested years ago. Is that when you transmit a file directly from the camera.
The image file should be write protected when the transfer is complete.
This is something that Nikon implemented in the D4 almost 8 years ago.
And actually would make my life a lot easier for me.
(In short, I´ve transmitted images straight from the camera for more than 200 games for "live publishing".
While working for wired agencies at the same time. This requires an extremely fast workflow under great time pressure.
Therefore my suggestion would actually make a big difference to me.
As things are now, you can't really know what images that are transferred when they are ingested to the computer.
Unless you write-protect the yourself during the game.
And you cant write-protect it while it's in the transfer. Which forces you to take your eyes from the game.
Something that in some cases will cause you to miss an important image...

The response from the CPS rep was not to listen in order to understand why this would make a difference.
Instead the answer was that the software in the camera is really complicated.
I.E. nothing that i should hope for. (And it has still not been implemented by Canon).

I like to compare that to all the software updated that been done on the A9.
All after Sony listening to feedback from photographers on different events.
And the changes from the A9 to the A9 II.

I do honestly hope that Canon will catch up in this area.
From my honest experience, they have a lot to improve in this area.
And Canon is still most welcome to contact me. For my honest opinion.
As long as they will listen carefully & with respect. I´m all open to help them improve.
 

SereneSpeed

EOS T7i
Feb 1, 2016
93
40
I have been following and experimenting with external hardware and internal file transfer options since the release of the EOS R. You can currently backup RAW files to an IOS/Windows device, while shooting, and while also keeping a copy on the SD card. But you need an external network.

That might have just changed: The Case Air Wireless from Tethertools, combined with a newer iPad and Lr mobile, might make RAW backup (while keeping another RAW copy on the SD) possible.

See here - 9:20 - for the referance:

I don't need an extra card slot. But I do want another backup copy of the RAW file. I would imagine that if Canon released a wireless device that had a card slot so you could run a live backup, they'd make a lot of money. Give it a swappable battery (LP-E6?) and make it work with all the new cameras. I don't think there'd be many complaints about single card slots any more...
 
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AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
6,341
4,429
Did Sony listen for upgrading the A9 to A9II? There was huge disappointment on the Sony forums when it was announced. It has the same sensor and same processor as the A9 but with the slightly larger grip of the A7RIV, twice the mechanical shutter fps and tweaks to AF etc that could be just firmware update. The nature photographers were hoping for a significant increase in megapixels. The A7RIV has been met by disappointment in some quarters because of the blackout between frames and its AF isn't up to to A9 standards. It's really the same situation as with Canon - a choice between blisteringly fast AF on the top model but low resolution or high resolution but poorer AF.