'Canon EOS R is now in testing by a small group of Canon professionals '
Always instils confidence.
Always instils confidence.
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Canon EOS R Mark II in testing [CR2]
- Thread starter Canon Rumors Guy
- Start date
Okay, no need for the f-word, it's really unhelpful and needlessly antagonistic. I don't think anyone here would disagree that Sony have made great strides. But the discussion seems to be coloured by an old narrative - than Canon (and maybe Nikon) are dinosaurs who don't listen and don't innovate, whilst Sony are nimble and responsive, which is partial to say the least.
On a broader note, I question the implication of some people's comments here that Canon's historic success is somehow accidental - that they didn't listen to customer feedback. I don't see how that can possibly be the case given their market dominance, even if you're just looking at the professional segment. The 1-series bodies weren't just conjured up out of nowhere, they were surely developed through close communication with users.
One last point, for all the talk of 'competition is good', a lot of people seem to think what Canon should do is simply copy Sony (whether in approach or specs). Multiple brands offering the same thing is a funny kind of competition, and I don't see how it benefits consumers, all of whom have different priorities.
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In my short time with the R, I've found it's phenomenal. Build quality is excellent, viewfinder is sharp and clear, menu system is great, eye AF is nearly as accurate as the a7iii, and most importantly the image quality far exceeds the camera I was upgrading from (D7500). At $1500 I think it would be silly not to get it, especially if you have adaptable EF glass.
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Always amazes me that sony is so lauded, yes it has really good specs and image quality but actually getting that image is a pain, the canons have their limitations but it is a better experience and what it lacks in pixels or dynamic range is compensated by handling and colour quality and where did all that dust come from, influencers and reviewers love sony but nikon and canon get used for a reason.
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I actually tether when shooting. I bought a long usb to usb-c cable, one end plugs into the camera, the other into the surface pro tablet which is carried in a backpack. Immediate backups of all the shots I take when I use the tethered method. If I am casually shooting, I have the shots go to my phone or tablet wirelessly.
The tethering while on the go works quite well.
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While connected to laptop, does it charge Camera? Or do we need some special cables or ports to charge the battery with camera.
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I look on it as an additional tool in the box. For a lot of the time i am shooting, it is usually a short burst of shots, and lots of time in between. This would work quite well for that. If I were shooting action at “the big game”, it would have a hard time keeping up...... but then again, this is not the camera I would have brought to cover action.
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I am a commercial director in green chemistry in real life, when not travelling for my pleasure with cameras in order to take pictures and videos.
I have found the comments from Sportskutaren quite interesting and furthermore illustrated by beautiful pictures, showing his real capacity in using a camera.
Since these comments, I have read many answers that I find are showing a certain level of bad faith. I did not expect this here on this forum.
Obviously, the comments from Sportskutaren were constructive and written for the good of Canon reputation and business.
In my business world, dispute on words are not key, what are important are the sales figures.
If you think you are right but your sales are falling apart, the reality of business imposes to you the fact that you are wrong.
I love Canon, but Canon needs to change if they want to improve or keep their sales.
From my little perspective in video, Canon's strategy on DSLR for video has not worked and Lumix took their marketshare.
The same is happening with Sony in Japan in 2019 with Full Frame cameras.
Sony wins mirrorless race, beating Canon and Nikon for 2019 full-frame sales
Sony sold the most full-frame cameras in Japan this year, as the Canon EOS R and Nikon Z7 can't keep pace with Alpha
www.digitalcameraworld.com
It is time to open your eyes and stop to deny the reality of Canon loosing marketshare and its leadership position in Japan (in FF).
I would be shocked to learn that Canon is loosing their leadership position because they are a perfect company, producing perfect products and those products are perfectly answering the needs of their customers. I would rather think they have missed or ignored some customer needs and those needs were better managed by other brands.
A consequence of this mismanagement from Canon is their marketshare going down and their loss of their leadership position.
If I remember well my Geography, Sweden is quite far from Japan, so clearly the loss of marketshare in Japan is not due to the local situation of some Swedish bad new sales persons not properly listening to an experienced bird photographer or a professional sport photographer.
So maybe this problem of Canon is global?!
And if you visit internet you'll find many comments going in that direction.
In Japan, in Full Frame, Sony won 6.4% marketshare and is now the leader with 38% marketshare.
When Canon lost 1.8% marketshare and now second with 36% marketshare.
What is interesting is not the small loss of Canon but the very serious increase of Sony.
DETAILS OF THE SALES ARTICLE:
While the western world was tying itself in knots buying all the Black Friday bargains, something very important happened in Japan: it was revealed that Sony sold more full-frame cameras than anyone else in 2019, overtaking Canon for market share.
In short, this means that Sony has won the full-frame mirrorless race in 2019; despite their best efforts, the Canon EOS R and Nikon Z7 simply couldn't keep paces with the awesome sales of Sony's Alpha cameras.
The news comes courtesy of BCN+R, the Japanese retail analysis service that monitors point of sale data in the nation. In its report, BCN+R announced that Sony now holds dominant market share of 38% in the full-frame arena, followed by Canon at 36% and Nikon at 24%.
This is in stark contrast to 2018, which saw Canon hold a 37.8% share, Sony 31.6% and Nikon 29.1%.
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From the same reports, further information on TOTAL, APS and FF sales changes year over year :
Overall Sales
Sony 19.4% increase in sales units 2019 vs 2018
Sony 31.2% increase in sales revenues 2019 vs 2018
Canon 12.8% DECREASE in sales units 2019 vs 2018
Canon 15.8% DECREASE in sales revenues 2019 vs 2018
If you are an investor and you get such figures, what would you think of Canon's performance?
What would you think of Sony's future in this business?
Overall Sales
Sony 19.4% increase in sales units 2019 vs 2018
Sony 31.2% increase in sales revenues 2019 vs 2018
Canon 12.8% DECREASE in sales units 2019 vs 2018
Canon 15.8% DECREASE in sales revenues 2019 vs 2018
If you are an investor and you get such figures, what would you think of Canon's performance?
What would you think of Sony's future in this business?
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unfocused
Photos/Photo Book Reviews: www.thecuriouseye.com
Interesting numbers. But, things get more complicated as you dig in. I found this in the article you referenced: "What is interesting, however, is that between the 'big three', full-frame cameras are an incredibly small part of the puzzle (albeit the most profitable). According to BCN+R, full-frame only accounts for 10.4% of sales (6.4% of that being mirrorless, 4% DSLR); APS-C cameras account for 89.6% (55.7% mirrorless, 33.9% DSLR)."
Also, it's very hard to draw conclusions from a single year, as camera manufacturers follow different release schedules. Depending on what a company has or has not released in any given year can greatly impact sales for that year -- Probably more so with DSLRs than mirrorless, but I expect that since Canon did not have any major full frame DSLR releases in the past year, that could skew the sales figures.
This all causes me to default to a position I've long held -- I'm glad to see Canon's competitors doing well as that certainly puts pressure on Canon to do better. With Nikon and Canon both having about a century's worth of experience, I don't really worry about either one abandoning the market or going out of business. They have weathered changes before and I expect their management is far ahead of us in anticipating and adapting to changing conditions.
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I am a commercial director in green chemistry in real life, when not travelling for my pleasure with cameras in order to take pictures and videos.
I have found the comments from Sportskutaren quite interesting and furthermore illustrated by beautiful pictures, showing his real capacity in using a camera.
Since these comments, I have read many answers that I find are showing a certain level of bad faith. I did not expect this here on this forum.
Obviously, the comments from Sportskutaren were constructive and written for the good of Canon reputation and business.
In my business world, dispute on words are not key, what are important are the sales figures.
If you think you are right but your sales are falling apart, the reality of business imposes to you the fact that you are wrong.
I love Canon, but Canon needs to change if they want to improve or keep their sales.
From my little perspective in video, Canon's strategy on DSLR for video has not worked and Lumix took their marketshare.
The same is happening with Sony in Japan in 2019 with Full Frame cameras.
Sony wins mirrorless race, beating Canon and Nikon for 2019 full-frame sales
Sony sold the most full-frame cameras in Japan this year, as the Canon EOS R and Nikon Z7 can't keep pace with Alpha
It is time to open your eyes and stop to deny the reality of Canon loosing marketshare and its leadership position in Japan (in FF).
I would be shocked to learn that Canon is loosing their leadership position because they are a perfect company, producing perfect products and those products are perfectly answering the needs of their customers. I would rather think they have missed or ignored some customer needs and those needs were better managed by other brands.
A consequence of this mismanagement from Canon is their marketshare going down and their loss of their leadership position.
If I remember well my Geography, Sweden is quite far from Japan, so clearly the loss of marketshare in Japan is not due to the local situation of some Swedish bad new sales persons not properly listening to an experienced bird photographer or a professional sport photographer.
So maybe this problem of Canon is global?!
And if you visit internet you'll find many comments going in that direction.
In Japan, in Full Frame, Sony won 6.4% marketshare and is now the leader with 38% marketshare.
When Canon lost 1.8% marketshare and now second with 36% marketshare.
What is interesting is not the small loss of Canon but the very serious increase of Sony.
DETAILS OF THE SALES ARTICLE:
While the western world was tying itself in knots buying all the Black Friday bargains, something very important happened in Japan: it was revealed that Sony sold more full-frame cameras than anyone else in 2019, overtaking Canon for market share.
In short, this means that Sony has won the full-frame mirrorless race in 2019; despite their best efforts, the Canon EOS R and Nikon Z7 simply couldn't keep paces with the awesome sales of Sony's Alpha cameras.
The news comes courtesy of BCN+R, the Japanese retail analysis service that monitors point of sale data in the nation. In its report, BCN+R announced that Sony now holds dominant market share of 38% in the full-frame arena, followed by Canon at 36% and Nikon at 24%.
This is in stark contrast to 2018, which saw Canon hold a 37.8% share, Sony 31.6% and Nikon 29.1%.
Serious question. When did fiscal 2019 end and fiscal 2020 begin in Japan?
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Canon only released one FF body in the year, and that was the RP. If you look at the graphics, you'll see Canon's FF unit sales are actually up, and value is down, indicating they sold a ton of RPs, even though the more expensive DSLR bodies probably weren't in high demand. Which is to be expected, as they are near their end of life, with the 1DX III and likely even the 5D V coming next year.
If I were an investor, I'd look at these figures a lot more, before concluding much. In any case, I find it misleading to say that Canon is suffering so much here, as clearly Nikon is in a lot more trouble.
Here's a better coverage of the report and the original btw:
キヤノン、ニコンともに惨敗のフルサイズ戦争この1年 - BCN＋R
昨年秋に始まったフルサイズミラーレス一眼の戦い。1年あまりが経過した現段階では、ソニーが圧勝している。
www.bcnretail.com
As indicated by the graphics, the numbers from the report cover the year from November 2018 to October 2019.
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The title of the article is "Canon EOS R Mark II in Testing"
If you're at a holiday party this season and people are discussing the upcoming Ford F-150 pickup truck and whether you feel 450 lb/ft torque is enough to tow your camper, or wondering if they're going to keep the V8 in the lineup, or add a diesel engine, and someone comes up to your group and starts talking about some random marketing company who says Chevrolet just passed Ford in sales in Germany, then (1) How relevant would you find that to the conversation and (2) How long do you think it would take people to walk away from that guy?
The responses you see here should come as no surprise.
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I am a commercial director in green chemistry in real life, when not travelling for my pleasure with cameras in order to take pictures and videos.
I have found the comments from Sportskutaren quite interesting and furthermore illustrated by beautiful pictures, showing his real capacity in using a camera.
Since these comments, I have read many answers that I find are showing a certain level of bad faith. I did not expect this here on this forum.
Obviously, the comments from Sportskutaren were constructive and written for the good of Canon reputation and business.
In my business world, dispute on words are not key, what are important are the sales figures.
If you think you are right but your sales are falling apart, the reality of business imposes to you the fact that you are wrong.
I love Canon, but Canon needs to change if they want to improve or keep their sales.
From my little perspective in video, Canon's strategy on DSLR for video has not worked and Lumix took their marketshare.
The same is happening with Sony in Japan in 2019 with Full Frame cameras.
Sony wins mirrorless race, beating Canon and Nikon for 2019 full-frame sales
Sony sold the most full-frame cameras in Japan this year, as the Canon EOS R and Nikon Z7 can't keep pace with Alpha
It is time to open your eyes and stop to deny the reality of Canon loosing marketshare and its leadership position in Japan (in FF).
I would be shocked to learn that Canon is loosing their leadership position because they are a perfect company, producing perfect products and those products are perfectly answering the needs of their customers. I would rather think they have missed or ignored some customer needs and those needs were better managed by other brands.
A consequence of this mismanagement from Canon is their marketshare going down and their loss of their leadership position.
If I remember well my Geography, Sweden is quite far from Japan, so clearly the loss of marketshare in Japan is not due to the local situation of some Swedish bad new sales persons not properly listening to an experienced bird photographer or a professional sport photographer.
So maybe this problem of Canon is global?!
And if you visit internet you'll find many comments going in that direction.
In Japan, in Full Frame, Sony won 6.4% marketshare and is now the leader with 38% marketshare.
When Canon lost 1.8% marketshare and now second with 36% marketshare.
What is interesting is not the small loss of Canon but the very serious increase of Sony.
DETAILS OF THE SALES ARTICLE:
While the western world was tying itself in knots buying all the Black Friday bargains, something very important happened in Japan: it was revealed that Sony sold more full-frame cameras than anyone else in 2019, overtaking Canon for market share.
In short, this means that Sony has won the full-frame mirrorless race in 2019; despite their best efforts, the Canon EOS R and Nikon Z7 simply couldn't keep paces with the awesome sales of Sony's Alpha cameras.
The news comes courtesy of BCN+R, the Japanese retail analysis service that monitors point of sale data in the nation. In its report, BCN+R announced that Sony now holds dominant market share of 38% in the full-frame arena, followed by Canon at 36% and Nikon at 24%.
This is in stark contrast to 2018, which saw Canon hold a 37.8% share, Sony 31.6% and Nikon 29.1%.
I accept everything you say. However, there are two reasons a company falls behind like Canon have done:
(a) They have the technology and do not listen to what customers want, only releasing what they think they should release
(b) they do not have the technology and do as well as they can.
They key to mirrorless is the sensor because it is the speed at which the sensor can process and pass data to other components. And Canon have admitted they have have fallen behind on sensor technology. So as I see it, they want to match Sony but can't, despite what people want them to do.
As for listening, as has been said above, a lot depends on exactly who you talk to. If you happen to talk to someone with influence on the design team you will get positive feedback from your comments. If you are talking to a run-of-the-mill CPS person or sales person then you will likely get a defence of the products on sale. Or a defensive position where they don't want to publicly admit they do not have the technology.
So yes, Canon has lost market share but there are myriad reasons and given their past performance, I see 'Canon not listening' as the least likely. And the 'Sony responded my suggestions ' often (as has been said above) Canon has been doing it for years and if Sony did not already have them on the drawing board they would deserve to be harangued as incompetent.
Two recent examples; when people criticised Sony's continued production of small bodies, they responded saying that 'that is not what our customers want'(denial), then lo and behold the A7R4 and A9II have got bigger bodies. And a current one is Sony's inability (refusal?) to put in a half-decent touch screen, especially given their history with mobile phones.
and I have lost count of the number of Sony users (including their sponsored photographers) who complained that Sony did not seem to be interested in their comments. That seems to be changing, thankfully.
I don't think people are being uncharitable to Sportskutaren, but pointing out that the 'Canon don't listen but Sony do' is rather too simplistic.
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I think those times are over. The sensor in the M6 II and 90D shows that Canon has diminished noise issues boosting shadows further and in the case of the M6 II we see that throughput is much less of an issue, as it has basically the same amount of throughput as the Sony a9 for example.
And assuming Canon didn't go all out with their new technology on the first mid tear mirrorless they released with it, we could expect to see some great specs on the upcoming high res R and R II cameras.
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I have a 5D4 and an A7III but as a portraitist find myself reaching for the Sony for its Eye AF and smaller, lighter feel most of the time. I don't let the 5D4 go because it's still a superb camera and performs well with the many L primes and zooms I have while they don't work as snappily as native glass on the Sony using the Sigma MC-11 adapter. The decent performance of the R as it is with the new firmware and the terrific Christmas/New-Version-Coming-Fairly-Soon prices for body and adapter mean I will probably get the R now for its mirrorless advantages and then take a good look at the R2 when it comes out to see if the new version is worth it by summer 2020 as seems likely for its availability.
I thought I'd hate the OVF but I don't mind it a bit in the Sony. Matter of taste, I guess. The A7R4 is a nice tool but I don't need the extra file size and would rather be able to get good service out of my superb Canon lenses for some years with the R and adapter for classic Canon glass, which I hear works well. The Sony lenses are also good but I could spend $10,000 in a hurry getting everything I'd like replacing my Canon lenses with Sony, Zeiss, etc., E-mount.
I thought I'd hate the OVF but I don't mind it a bit in the Sony. Matter of taste, I guess. The A7R4 is a nice tool but I don't need the extra file size and would rather be able to get good service out of my superb Canon lenses for some years with the R and adapter for classic Canon glass, which I hear works well. The Sony lenses are also good but I could spend $10,000 in a hurry getting everything I'd like replacing my Canon lenses with Sony, Zeiss, etc., E-mount.
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I agree on your comments on the FF business.
As you have seen, I have posted another set of figures showing the whole business sales in Japan.
Figures are even worth for Canon (percentage of change).
Again, I want Canon to remain a great company. I am not happy to see these figures.
But, I don't want Canon to become arrogant and ignore key demands from customers.
My comments are just written with this in mind.
As you see in my signature I have roughly spent 10,000 Euros in Canon products, so there is a good reason why I did so
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