Canon EOS R5 pricing is still unknown, don’t believe the reports [CR0]

cayenne

EOR R
Mar 28, 2012
2,203
280
Any thoughts on the quickest way to get an R5 once they become available? Do I pre-order through a big national site like Adorama or a local camera store chain where I've been buying cameras and lenses for the past 7 or 8 years? My preference is generally to support local camera stores, but I would really like to get my hands on an R5 by early Fall, if possible.
Well, if you order through Adorama/B&H...you don't get charged sales tax.....which is nice...
 

usern4cr

EOS 80D
Sep 2, 2018
187
138
Kentucky, USA
So I've tried a little bit of everything since I normally use 1D cameras, use an EOS R at my day job, and have tried out the A9. Anytime the EOS R freezes the frame between shots, it just feels really unnatural to me and it honestly throws me off. It makes everything into a bit of a slideshow effect where I find my muscle memory is slightly overreacting because the image view is still showing where things were after I've already moved, versus not showing anything and letting me assume motion. It's been a big annoyance to me on the EOS R. I know this is a hugely personal preference and some may not feel the same, so this is an area where I'd appreciate a user setting to decide.

In regards to the 20 FPS electronic, I'd prefer it to work like the A9's 20 FPS. Nothing changes or slows in the viewfinder when you take a photo except for a white box around the frame. As much I did not like the A9 for other reasons, I'd say this is the best-case scenario, since having a nonstop live feed of your subject is the absolute easiest way to track your subject.

You are right though, the EOS R has a lot of warping in electronic shutter, but I hope the 20 FPS of the EOS R means they have a much faster sensor readout with less warping. Most of the assignments I do at my day job are slow-paced and I've been able to use the EOS R's silent shutter when I really need to, but most of the time I use the mechanical shutter anyway to save me from losing any images to bad warping with sudden movements.
OK, you've convinced me! :) I never thought I'd say this, but I hope that Canon can see this post and decide to offer a "EVF blackout: Enable/Disable" menu option so that the EVF display either can, or can not, have a blackout between images. Some never want a blackout because they don't like flickering, but others don't like an 'old' image to linger while there is appreciable motion (like with BIF photos) and would rather just see a brief image (as soon as possible) and then not see anything until the next new image is displayed so that they can better track the action.
 

cayenne

EOR R
Mar 28, 2012
2,203
280
That's the way the 1D X Mark III does it in Live View. The screen shows a continuous video feed with no freeze or blackout. The only way to tell images are being captured is to see the buffer number dropping or the image file number ascending.
Why could they not do exactly this with the EVF?

C
 
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usern4cr

EOS 80D
Sep 2, 2018
187
138
Kentucky, USA
If you can stand his attitude, Jared Polin did a good comparison of the 1DX III and A9:


If Canon just use the 1DX III LiveView as their EVF, it should be a very big upgrade over the R.
I was amazed at the informative value of this video. Canon's DSLR in live view mode becomes essentially a mirrorless camera and tracked about equally as good as the A9, which seems to be the leader in continuous AF. That's pretty amazing. Now if you couple that with Canon's ability to also have an OVF for someone doing BIF where the instantaneous OVF allows for easier tracking of a randomly flying bird compared to the inherent delay of a EVF, then one could indeed argue that there is a strong reason to stay with the OVF. :unsure:

With that said, as someone joining in new to the Canon system (without EF legacy equipment) I will still focus on getting the R5, and hope that the continuous AF with their EVF is at least as good (or even better) than what they have shown in their latest DSLR liveview. It gives me great hope for something spectacular, but as always "time will tell". :)

And thanks again, Joules, for posting this. Seldom has a video been so worthwhile to see.
 

Joules

EOS 7D MK II
Jul 16, 2017
680
678
Hamburg, Germany
To elaborate from my point of view, it's all about the story being told.
No objections there. I got the impression that you suggested video and stills use different technologies to perform autofocus. And that got me curious.

The way I see it, they are technically the same. Video AF may accelerate and decelerate the the plane of focus less aggressively to give an impression of smoothness. But it still has to work with the same information and process it rapidly to keep track of a face, for example.
 

cayenne

EOR R
Mar 28, 2012
2,203
280
Because the 1D X Mark III does not have an EVF, it has an OVF?
I was speaking to the demo that Polin did...using live view....where it seems to have continuous tracking AF.....you see him holding the camera out doing this with live view.

My question was, if they can do this with live view...why can they not do it with EVF? Pretty much same tech I would guess?

With live view on the 1DX....the mirror is locked up right? So, with R5....no mirror, so rather than send this to screen on back ,could they not send it to the EVF...so that you'd have AF tracking and no blackout?

Just a thought.

C
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
2,302
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I was speaking to the demo that Polin did...using live view....where it seems to have continuous tracking AF.....you see him holding the camera out doing this with live view.

My question was, if they can do this with live view...why can they not do it with EVF? Pretty much same tech I would guess?

With live view on the 1DX....the mirror is locked up right? So, with R5....no mirror, so rather than send this to screen on back ,could they not send it to the EVF...so that you'd have AF tracking and no blackout?

Just a thought.

C
Who says they won't?

Who says they can't?
 

SecureGSM

2 x 5D IV
Feb 26, 2017
1,945
865
What I see in a lot of these price speculation threads is some variation of, “I hope the economy forces them to give these away!”

It’d be nice, but that’s not a sustainable business model. And with many factors known before any kind of mass production started, I don’t expect them to be stuck with excess supply they don’t want to carry.

We shall see.
with sales at around 25% YoY compared April 2020 to April 2019, Canon is certain to follow a sustainable business model. Austerity to the max, Sales strategy in overdrive mode, Revenue is the king.

have a read:

 
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Feb 7, 2013
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Canon could be very bold and do this for a ravishing £3500 body only - pull the rug under Sony and Nikon and causing a big stir in the pot and £3999 including the RF 24-105 F4 RF. Although I am likely to be wrong and could be well over £4000.00
 

Sporgon

5% of gear used 95% of the time
A was
But in the previous message you said the 24mp image could be sharpened and brought to the level of downsampled 50->24mp image. So implicitly you acknowledged the difference is noticeable :)
I think we are at cross purposes here, because sharpness is not resolution. I agreed with you that downsampling increases perceived sharpness, but you don't retain the difference in resolution between two same size sensors that are so close together in resolving ability anyway.

From my own expense experience in using FF digital cameras ranging from 12 to 50 mp since 2005 I have come to think of them as varying in output size rather than resolution. The larger the size of the image the more detail there is - due to the fact that image size and resolution are both down to numbers of pixels, unlike film where the image became progressively softer the more you enlarged it.

I wouldn't want to give the impression that I'm disappointed in the 5DS in any way - I'm not and they are a fantastic powerful and versatile tool in a relatively small, light package, and I'll be keeping mine a long time. But I am realistic about the fact that much of the time the massive amount of data is overkill.
 
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Dexter75

EOS T7i
Dec 18, 2019
55
44
People seem to think that the video specs mean Canon is trying to move upmarket, but I don't think that is the case at all. In fact I think it's the exact opposite. They're trying to draw in more downmarket customers who might be on the fence about a variety of cameras by tempting them to spend a little more for the improved video specs. If they price it too high they'll be out of reach to a lot of these downmarket customers. $5,000 is way too high, I actually expect this camera to be cheaper than the 5D IV to improve its attainability.
cheap “downmarket” photographers looking at cameras don’t care about video. $5k is an absolute steal to the semi pro filmmakers who’s only other choice for 8k video is a $20k RED system. Why do you think Canon is playing up the video specs so much? It’s going to be at least $5k.The “downmarket” photographers will look more at the cheaper R6 and the even cheaper model that’s been rumored.
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
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cheap “downmarket” photographers looking at cameras don’t care about video. $5k is an absolute steal to the semi pro filmmakers who’s only other choice for 8k video is a $20k RED system. Why do you think Canon is playing up the video specs so much? It’s going to be at least $5k.The “downmarket” photographers will look more at the cheaper R6 and the even cheaper model that’s been rumored.
That is laughable, nobody is making a choice between a $40k (usable) RED system and an R5, they are completely different markets. Now people that use RED's might buy a few R5's as well for crash cams etc, but nobody shooting RED's gives a damn about any non C Canon as a primary camera. It's as fallacious as saying they could be looking at a Samsung phone instead of a RED.

Canon make an entire range of C line cameras and lenses to cater for your "semi pro filmmakers" none of whom require 8k, the R line of cameras isn't it, the C500 II is the current darling at $15,000 but used C100's can be had for peanuts but the C line has specs and prices at every point in between to satisfy anybody.
 
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Pooshoes

I'm New Here
Sep 1, 2018
23
14
They'll price it competitively and try to sell some of that pricey RF glass. Thats where the money is.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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I'm sure there is a software fix that allows the EVF to show an uninterrupted live view while images are being taken. I'd be happy with this as opposed to the lag the R currently has.
Please show me where they put the EVF in the 1D X Mark III? I can't seem to find it.

Seriously, It might not be that easy with the hardware used by the EOS R. If the processor can't handle the entire load of processing the image and providing real time video at the same time, it's not possible for any software update to give that functionality.
 
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x4dow

EOS M50
May 16, 2020
30
20
Just an UPDATED ESTIMATED RECORDING TIME TABLE for the Canon R5 to correct an earlier post of mine where I wrongly multiplied using bytes instead of bits (Oooops! My Bad!) This is for the Canon R5 camera for DCI 8K video recording at FULL Uncompressed RAW, 3:1 Compressed RAW and 5:1 Compressed RAW recording formats:

DCI 8K FULL RAW video at 10 Bits per colour channel (4:4:4 colour sampling at 30 bit colour) is 8192 by 4320 pixels and 35,389,440 pixels (35.38 megapixels) and 132,710,400 bytes per video frame = 3,981,312,000 bytes per second at 30 fps FULL RAW (or 3.98 Gigabytes per second!) or 238,878,720,000 bytes per minute (238.87 gigabytes per minute) of FULL uncompressed RAW recording time.

Size of CF Express Cards in Gigabytes and Calculated RAW Recording Times in minutes and seconds at 10 bits per RGB/YCbCr colour channel aka 30 bit colour:

FULL RAW using typical mathematically lossless bit-wise 2:1 LZW compression:

128 gigabytes = 50 sec
256 gigabytes = 1 min 40 sec
512 gigabytes = 3 min 20 sec

Compressed 3:1 Ratio RAW in minutes and seconds:
(algorithms used are variable but visually lossless which means the video looks really good)

128 gigabytes = 3 min 45 sec
256 gigabytes = 7 min 30 sec
512 gigabytes = 15 minutes

Compressed 5:1 Ratio RAW in minutes and seconds:
(algorithms used are variable but visually lossless which means the video looks really good)

128 gigabytes = 6 min 5 sec
256 gigabytes = 12 min 10 sec
512 gigabytes = 24 min 20 sec at DCI 8K or 98 minutes at DCI 4K at 24 to 30 fps or about 49 minutes at 4K 60fps!

If you use an external drive using a typical video-grade Four Terabyte drive, you will get about 195 minutes or 3 and a quarter hours of video at 30 fps 8K using 5:1 RAW.

I should note these are worst-case scenarios, so I expect there SHOULD BE a leeway of an extra 25% on top of the above times when filming typical action or sports video where detail is fairly limited and where motion tends to be linear.

For still images at the LIKELY 45 megapixels that will be used for this camera in stills mode, we can expect to store about about 10,500+ still images (3:2 aspect ratio) on a single 128 Gigabyte CF express card at the typical 5:1 compression ratio of the HEIF image file format.

Sooooooo, it looks like Canon has done AN OUTSTANDING JOB on FULL RAW and COMPRESSED RAW recording times for the larger 256 and 512 gigabyte CF-Express cards!

If you record only DCI 4K video multiply ALL of the above times BY FOUR !!!!!

AND .... I should note that if you use 4:2:2 H.265 DCI 8K (8192 x 4320 pixels) interframe compressed video recording, you SHOULD be able to get a fairly high record time using 50 to 150 Group-of-Frame (GOP) settings which means on a 128 gigabyte CF-Express card you should be able to get about 20 minutes minimum at the high quality pro-level video settings.

For the 512 Gigabyte cards, that's at least 50 minutes of very high quality 30 fps H.265 DCI 8K video and up to 200 minutes of 30 fps DCI 4k video or 100 minutes of 60 fps DCI 4K video and somewhere between 35 to 50 minutes of 4K at 120 fps (120 fps is very hard to compress in real time!).

That's pretty good as DCI 8K video record times for full 8192 by 4320 pixel video resolution and DCI 4K 4096 by 2160 pixel video! I should note though that H.265 is rather finicky on CONTENT DETAIL and EXCESSIVE MOTION, so your recording time mileage may vary! DO EXPECT A PLUS OR MINUS 25% leeway on either side of my above estimated 8K video record times!

This will get Sony's Goat to No End !!!

v
dunno how you calculate 32MP (8k dci raw) being 4Gb per second when my A7R3 raws (42MP) were around 80Mb reach (and thats not 10 bit, its 14 if im not wrong) . 80x30 (30fps) woud be around 2.4Gb second.
Also note that this camera does 8k raw internal, so no way its 4Gb second.