Canon EOS R6 announcement moved to July [CR2]

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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Yeah, I thought your comment was more in fun, which my reply was also. :D

€4,000 is a well thought out, and probably much more agreed upon estimate. You mentioned Euros, but often US prices are a little less, so I'm guessing you'd say $4,000 US as well? I wouldn't be surprised whatsoever if that's what it came out at.

I think it's really about how much Canon wants to jumpstart their attack to take the market share lead in the FF mirrorless segment. They could be in their 'normal' price setting mood, or their "fire all the cannons and take no prisoners!" mood. I'm guessing more of the latter, but it's just a guess with a whole lot of hope (since if the price gets too high then I have a hard time justifying immediately buying in versus waiting for the R5s if I'm going to spend that much).

One day soon we'll have the unveiling of the price. That'll be quite a day, either way!
The European price would already reflect the Value Added Tax placed on all products. In the U.S., sales tax would not be reflected in the MSRP. Exchange rates between the USD and Euro are not 1:1, either.

A price of €4,000 less 15% VAT converted to USD is currently $3,780 at today's spot exchange rates.
 
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koenkooi

EOS 6D MK II
Feb 25, 2015
886
665
The European price would already reflect the Value Added Tax placed on all products. In the U.S., sales tax would not be reflected in the MSRP. Exchange rates between the USD and Euro are not 1:1, either.

A price of €4,000 less 15% VAT converted to USD is currently $3,780 at today's spot exchange rates.
Apart from Switzerland (7%) and Luxembourg (17%) VAT varies between 19% and 28% in Europe. Taking 20% off €4000 brings it to $3510 at this morning's exchange rates.

But there's more fluctuation, for months the RF50 was about 25% cheaper at Best Buy, even including CA sales tax than it was here, with 21% VAT.
 

justaCanonuser

Grab your camera, go out and shoot!
Feb 12, 2014
630
447
Frankfurt, Germany
Didn't the Euro fluctuate quite a bit versus the yen between 2012 (not 2011), when the 5D Mark III came out, and 2016 when the 5D Mark IV was introduced?
Yes, but I didn't follow always the prices, I think currency fluctuations are always part of this game. When the 5D4 hit the market back in 2016, it was Germany priced closely to 4 k€ (if you didn't risk to buy in the grey market). I remember this because I decided then to stick for a while with my 5D3 and wait with the upgrade until the 5D4's price drops substantially. In the spring of 2012 I got one of the first 5D3's that arrived at my local dealer at Frankfurt, and I had to pay 3125 € back then, if I remember correctly. I kept my 5D3 until February 2020 and then traded it in for a 5D4, triggered by Canon's cash-back action. My 5D3 had more than 150.000 actuations and still worked perfectly, it looked a bit scarred because I used it a lot for wildlife. The 5D3 was the first digital camera I really fell in love with btw, despite its well-known weaknesses. If you metered a bit carefully, it could produce great images.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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Yes, but I didn't follow always the prices, I think currency fluctuations are always part of this game. When the 5D4 hit the market back in 2016, it was Germany priced closely to 4 k€ (if you didn't risk to buy in the grey market). I remember this because I decided then to stick for a while with my 5D3 and wait with the upgrade until the 5D4's price drops substantially. In the spring of 2012 I got one of the first 5D3's that arrived at my local dealer at Frankfurt, and I had to pay 3125 € back then, if I remember correctly. I kept my 5D3 until February 2020 and then traded it in for a 5D4, triggered by Canon's cash-back action. My 5D3 had more than 150.000 actuations and still worked perfectly, it looked a bit scarred because I used it a lot for wildlife. The 5D3 was the first digital camera I really fell in love with btw, despite its well-known weaknesses. If you metered a bit carefully, it could produce great images.
The introductory prices quoted above for the 5D Mark III in 2012 and 5D Mark IV in 2016 in the U.S. are both the pre-tax prices from authorized U.S. dealers at the MSRP (manufacturer's suggested retail price). They were both $3,499 at launch.
 

Sporgon

5% of gear used 95% of the time
One comment about all the talk of an R6 using the same sensor as the 1Dx III. Of course we have no idea whether that will be the case or not, but even if it is, it sounds to me, from reading Canon's white paper on the 1DxIII and from reviews and samples online, most of the "magic" come from the processing in the camera. The increased low light capability seems to mostly be in Canon's treatment of jpgs. So, even if they used the exact same sensor, it is highly unlikely that an R6 would have the same sophisticated processing algorithms that are applied to the 1Dx III.
I would guess that the architecture of the 1D series sensors, the filters, micro lenses etc are of a greater quality and more expensive to produce than those in a lesser camera. Therefore I’d have thought there is zero chance of a complete 1D series sensor being dropped into a budget model.
 
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koenkooi

EOS 6D MK II
Feb 25, 2015
886
665
I would guess that the architecture of the 1D series sensors, the filters, micro lenses etc are of a greater quality and more expensive to produce than those in a lesser camera. Therefore I’d have thought there is zero chance of a complete 1D series sensor being dropped into a budget model.
And here's it's about moving the sensor + EF flange based microlenses to 1dx sensor + RF flange based microlenses. So regardless of cost, a different microlens array is needed for the R6.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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I would guess that the architecture of the 1D series sensors, the filters, micro lenses etc are of a greater quality and more expensive to produce than those in a lesser camera. Therefore I’d have thought there is zero chance of a complete 1D series sensor being dropped into a budget model.
You might be guessing and thinking wrong.
 
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BillB

EOS 6D MK II
May 11, 2017
1,371
630
On the higher quality of the 1 series sensor components or dropping the complete sensor into a budget body ? Or both maybe ?
Or maybe the selling price of the R6. Budget pricing means different things to different people. I would not be surprised if it‘s initial price is the same as the initial price of the R.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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On the higher quality of the 1 series sensor components or dropping the complete sensor into a budget body ? Or both maybe ?
On higher QA tolerances. Just because a part is more expensive to make or is intended for a more expensive product does not guarantee that the manufacturer/purchaser of said part will require higher levels of QC. Quite the contrary, they often do everything they can to keep the number of rejects as low as possible.

Within the Canon ecosystem we saw the same basic 18MP sensor in everything from the APS-C "flagship" 7D to the lowly Rebel T6/1300D.

Obviously the microlens array should be modified to account for the different angles of incidence due to the shorter registration distance when comparing the 1D X Mark III to the R6.
 

SecureGSM

2 x 5D IV
Feb 26, 2017
1,945
865
On the higher quality of the 1 series sensor components or dropping the complete sensor into a budget body ? Or both maybe ?
this is my take on this, if I may:

1. R6 is not a competition to 1DxIII. not even remotely in the range of the target audience of a Canon 1 series camera.
2. R6 will outsell 1Dx III in ration to 100:1(a figurative number, not an estimation) - for all the obvious reasons. price, form factor, capacity of the target market.
3. placing a sensor that is used in a 1 series camera will allow Canon to say: Look, guys. we are giving you the best sensor we use in our top of the range pro series bodies. step up to Canon quality, unleash your creativity, we have got your back ;)
4. 1Dx III sensor is a new generation, fast readout sensor. #2 above will allow Canon to recover capital investment in design and manufacturing of the new generation of sensors much faster.
5. #4 above will allow for a more aggressive discounting policy if required due to potential 1Dx III sales slowdown.
 
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Sporgon

5% of gear used 95% of the time
Within the Canon ecosystem we saw the same basic 18MP sensor in everything from the APS-C "flagship" 7D to the lowly Rebel T6/1300D.
I don't think the 18 mp sensor is a good example as the 7D was priced in the consumer range, albeit high end, but certainly not in the same league as the 1 series. Canon did appear to use the 1 series s 3 sensor in the 5DII which you could argue was also higher end consumer. I think maybe I've misunderstood where the R6 was was going to be pitched; I thought it was an RP replacement and maybe as BillB says, it isn't.
 

Sporgon

5% of gear used 95% of the time
this is my take on this, if I may:

1. R6 is not a competition to 1DxIII. not even remotely in the range of the target audience of a Canon 1 series camera.
2. R6 will outsell 1Dx III in ration to 100:1(a figurative number, not an estimation) - for all the obvious reasons. price, form factor, capacity of the target market.
3. placing a sensor that is used in a 1 series camera will allow Canon to say: Look, guys. we are giving you the best sensor we use in our top of the range pro series bodies. step up to Canon quality, unleash your creativity, we have got your back ;)
4. 1Dx III sensor is a new generation, fast readout sensor. #2 above will allow Canon to recover capital investment in design and manufacturing of the new generation of sensors much faster.
5. #4 above will allow for a more aggressive discounting policy if required due to potential 1Dx III sales slowdown.
I agree if the R6 not a budget model
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
2,302
1,290
I don't think the 18 mp sensor is a good example as the 7D was priced in the consumer range, albeit high end, but certainly not in the same league as the 1 series. Canon did appear to use the 1 series s 3 sensor in the 5DII which you could argue was also higher end consumer. I think maybe I've misunderstood where the R6 was was going to be pitched; I thought it was an RP replacement and maybe as BillB says, it isn't.
The 7D intro'd at $1,699.

The Rebel T6/1300D intro'd at $549.

That's a 3.25:1 price ratio for two APS-C cameras with the same sensor.

The 1D X Mark III intro'd at $6,499.

1/3.25 of the 1D X Mark III price is $2,000. We'll see if the R6 is at, above, or below that price point. I'm guessing slightly above it.
 

Dexter75

EOS T7i
Dec 18, 2019
55
44
Lame. This thing won’t be out until 2021, if ever. Canon still hasn’t even acknowledged it’s existence. It’s vapor ware
 

BillB

EOS 6D MK II
May 11, 2017
1,371
630
Lame. This thing won’t be out until 2021, if ever. Canon still hasn’t even acknowledged it’s existence. It’s vapor ware
Well, canon rarely acknowledges upcoming cameras much in advance of release, the R5 and several 1D’s being exceptions. There was enough information floating around a couple of months ago to get the R6 name and several specs categorized as CR3 (i.e “fact”), and a camera identified as the R6 has been submitted for certification. You are entitled to your opinion, but it seems like more than vapor ware to me, and I think it will be announced in July.
 

FramerMCB

Canon 40D & 7D
Sep 9, 2014
444
117
53
You were initially correct—mostly—there is a DIGIC 8 as well. However, it only supports DSLR functions—metering, PDAF. My guess is they didn't bother porting those functions to DIGIC X because they won't be needed much going forward ;)



From the white paper: https://www.canonrumors.com/files/Canon_EOS_1DX_Mark_III_Still_White_Paper.pdf
I completely missed that. But then again, I wasn't reading all the White Paper info. This explains a little more about the overall speed/responsiveness as well as the "unlimited" buffer.