Canon EOS Rebel SL2 Coming in September [CR2]

[privatebydesign]

Digital imaging sensor is the single most expensive component of any camera so sharing same sensor across multiple models in any generation is smart way of saving money on production. Sharing sensor has nothing to do with crippling which happens with functionality of camera(memory card slots, video features, customisation options, etc...) which according to Canon hampers sales or more "expensive" cameras. As the sensor gets bigger, so does the production cost and ratio of faulty sensors to usable sensors coming out of fab. Hence the reason why larger FF cameras dont seem to share sensors across multiple models.

I'm just sick of hearing the people whine about "crippling" on every damn camera.

The 1DX MkII is crippled by not having the custom options nor touch screen functionality or the C-Log found on the 5D MkIV.

While they are at fixing them in a firmware update they could open up the HDMI out to 4K recording....

Absolutely crippled!

 

[rrcphoto]

Canon's lineup in that section of the product ladder starts getting awfully crowded. With major features almost identical, we have six bodies whose differences are mostly in ergonomics:

• 80D - biggest, most rugged build, best OVF
• 77D - smaller, lighter build, smaller viewfinder, some "prosumer" ergonomics
• 800D/T7i - identical to the 77D except with more beginner-oriented design
• 110D(?)/SL2 - maximally compact while still being SLR
• M5 - compact, pretty good ergonomics (many dials!), EVF
• M6 - maximally compact, same ergonomics as M5 sans EVF

And they all seem to have the same sensor, AF and chip. Doesn't really fit with notion that Canon cripples the cheapies to force buyers upmarket. Really hoping that Canon follows the same strategy with the 6DII, although the 5DIV AF is out of the question. But the 30mp sensor?? Seems pretty certain it will have the DIGIC 7 chip.

APS-C is ls the place that most people buy into the ES lens system, so that's where it all starts out for most of us. I don't how many dollars my EF lenses represents for me, and I don't want to add it up to find out, but it has been over a lot of years, so it likely would look better on a per year basis.

Digital imaging sensor is the single most expensive component of any camera so sharing same sensor across multiple models in any generation is smart way of saving money on production. Sharing sensor has nothing to do with crippling which happens with functionality of camera(memory card slots, video features, customisation options, etc...) which according to Canon hampers sales or more "expensive" cameras. As the sensor gets bigger, so does the production cost and ratio of faulty sensors to usable sensors coming out of fab. Hence the reason why larger FF cameras dont seem to share sensors across multiple models.

canon doens't do that. under most cases, each camera has it's own sensor.

 

[rrcphoto]

And they all seem to have the same sensor

not really. the t7i and 80D sensor are different than each other. I suspect the 800D, 77D and M5/6 share the same sensor, however, that may turn out to be an inaccurate guess.

 

[djack41]

Zzzzzzzzz..........

 

[hbr]

I'm just sick of hearing the people whine about "crippling" on every damn camera.

Me too!

 

[c.d.embrey]

I'm just sick of hearing the people whine about "crippling" on every damn camera.

I've always wondered how you knee-cap a camera ??? It doesn't have legs Also you can't infect a camera with the polio virus. So how exactly do you cripple a camera ???

Cripple is the wrong word. Cripple = lame.

 

[BillB]

Digital imaging sensor is the single most expensive component of any camera so sharing same sensor across multiple models in any generation is smart way of saving money on production. Sharing sensor has nothing to do with crippling which happens with functionality of camera(memory card slots, video features, customisation options, etc...) which according to Canon hampers sales or more "expensive" cameras. As the sensor gets bigger, so does the production cost and ratio of faulty sensors to usable sensors coming out of fab. Hence the reason why larger FF cameras dont seem to share sensors across multiple models.

I am wondering whether the current situation is a little different than it has been in the past, because Canon seems to be in the middle of upgrading all of its cameras to dual pixel technology with on chip ADC, and doing so rather quickly. If the 6DII is announced in July and the SL2 in September, that would only leave the 5Ds(r) and the 7dII (and maybe some M's) with the older sensor technology. The past pattern of not sharing sensors may have reflected a more gradual rate of technology introduction, with longer periods between the introduction of the new cameras. If they are upgrading everything as quickly as possible, why not share sensors?

 

[Don Haines]

Digital imaging sensor is the single most expensive component of any camera so sharing same sensor across multiple models in any generation is smart way of saving money on production. Sharing sensor has nothing to do with crippling which happens with functionality of camera(memory card slots, video features, customisation options, etc...) which according to Canon hampers sales or more "expensive" cameras. As the sensor gets bigger, so does the production cost and ratio of faulty sensors to usable sensors coming out of fab. Hence the reason why larger FF cameras dont seem to share sensors across multiple models.

I am wondering whether the current situation is a little different than it has been in the past, because Canon seems to be in the middle of upgrading all of its cameras to dual pixel technology with on chip ADC, and doing so rather quickly. If the 6DII is announced in July and the SL2 in September, that would only leave the 5Ds(r) and the 7dII (and maybe some M's) with the older sensor technology. The past pattern of not sharing sensors may have reflected a more gradual rate of technology introduction, with longer periods between the introduction of the new cameras. If they are upgrading everything as quickly as possible, why not share sensors?

Some of us have speculated that Canon is in the process of phasing out the old fabrication line, and as a result, everything is being redesigned to fit the newer (finer) lithography.... It is a cost cutting measure, but one which positively affects the camera buying public.

 

[LonelyBoy]

Digital imaging sensor is the single most expensive component of any camera so sharing same sensor across multiple models in any generation is smart way of saving money on production. Sharing sensor has nothing to do with crippling which happens with functionality of camera(memory card slots, video features, customisation options, etc...) which according to Canon hampers sales or more "expensive" cameras. As the sensor gets bigger, so does the production cost and ratio of faulty sensors to usable sensors coming out of fab. Hence the reason why larger FF cameras dont seem to share sensors across multiple models.

I am wondering whether the current situation is a little different than it has been in the past, because Canon seems to be in the middle of upgrading all of its cameras to dual pixel technology with on chip ADC, and doing so rather quickly. If the 6DII is announced in July and the SL2 in September, that would only leave the 5Ds(r) and the 7dII (and maybe some M's) with the older sensor technology. The past pattern of not sharing sensors may have reflected a more gradual rate of technology introduction, with longer periods between the introduction of the new cameras. If they are upgrading everything as quickly as possible, why not share sensors?

Some of us have speculated that Canon is in the process of phasing out the old fabrication line, and as a result, everything is being redesigned to fit the newer (finer) lithography.... It is a cost cutting measure, but one which positively affects the camera buying public.

Yup, it does seem that way. Which makes me think the 7D3 may come sooner than some think. Not sure what the sales rate is on the 5DS/R, but that's the one I'd least expect an earlier remake of.

 

[unfocused]

...Which makes me think the 7D3 may come sooner than some think. Not sure what the sales rate is on the 5DS/R, but that's the one I'd least expect an earlier remake of.

Except that one could argue that the 5DS/R would most benefit from the newer sensors, because it is at lower ISOs that the new sensors have the most benefit and one might assume that the 5DS/R would more likely be used at base ISO, as opposed to a sports/birding/wildlife camera like the 7DIII.

Still, I would tend to agree that the 7DIII is likely to come first. But, that may have more to do with competitive pressure than technology. The 7D has a strong competitor in the Nikon D500, while the 5DS/R really doesn't have a competitor.

 

[BillB]

...Which makes me think the 7D3 may come sooner than some think. Not sure what the sales rate is on the 5DS/R, but that's the one I'd least expect an earlier remake of.

Except that one could argue that the 5DS/R would most benefit from the newer sensors, because it is at lower ISOs that the new sensors have the most benefit and one might assume that the 5DS/R would more likely be used at base ISO, as opposed to a sports/birding/wildlife camera like the 7DIII.

Still, I would tend to agree that the 7DIII is likely to come first. But, that may have more to do with competitive pressure than technology. The 7D has a strong competitor in the Nikon D500, while the 5DS/R really doesn't have a competitor.

Last time around the 7DII and the 5DS/R had the same pixel size, and they did the smaller sensor first, then upscaled the APS-C sensor to FF. Maybe they will do it the same way again.

 

[Sharlin]

I've always wondered how you knee-cap a camera ??? It doesn't have legs Also you can't infect a camera with the polio virus. So how exactly do you cripple a camera ???

Cripple is the wrong word. Cripple = lame.

I've always wondered how some people don't seem to grok that words can be used figuratively :

 

[Sharlin]

Canon used to milk the 18Mpix APS-C sensor for every last drop they could (and it's still being used in the poor little T6/1300D!) Versions of it, with only minor differences,have been in use since 2009, in the 7D, 60D, 550D, 600D, 650D, 700D, 100D, M, M2, M10, 1200D, and the 1300D as mentioned.

Then there was the 20Mpix DPAF sensor used in the 70D and the 7D2, and the 24Mpix Hybrid AF used in the M3 and the 750/760D.

Those sensors were clearly just intermediate steps leading to the current 24Mpix DPAF sensor which, perhaps with some evolutionary improvements, is probably going to be manufactured for a good while.

 

[Frodo]

I'm just sick of hearing the people whine about "crippling" on every damn camera.

I've always wondered how you knee-cap a camera ??? It doesn't have legs Also you can't infect a camera with the polio virus. So how exactly do you cripple a camera ???

Cripple is the wrong word. Cripple = lame.

I had a 300D, which was a crippled 10D. "Crippled" was an appropriate term because there were inbuilt functions that Canon deliberately disabled to reduce competition with the 10D. A Russian hack that I used in my 300D allowed many, but not all, of the 10D functions to be regained.
Magic Lantern provides for many additional functions, but this is different as many of those functions are not available in other cameras available at the time.

 

[LonelyBoy]

The 7D has a strong competitor in the Nikon D500, while the 5DS/R really doesn't have a competitor.

That's exactly what I was thinking. The 7D line has to sell in higher volume than the 5DS/R, and the larger sensors at that resolution are harder to produce at acceptable yield.

 

[LonelyBoy]

I had a 300D, which was a crippled 10D. "Crippled" was an appropriate term because there were inbuilt functions that Canon deliberately disabled to reduce competition with the 10D. A Russian hack that I used in my 300D allowed many, but not all, of the 10D functions to be regained.
Magic Lantern provides for many additional functions, but this is different as many of those functions are not available in other cameras available at the time.

If it weren't for those functions being disabled, Canon just wouldn't have entered that price point. Don't like price point segregation? Pay up, Johnny Lunchpail. You're not going to get a top-end camera for a bargain basement price with just one meaningless feature gone.

Whine, whine, whine.

 

[neuroanatomist]

A Russian hack that I used in my 300D

So there's a long history of Russian hacking. Interesting...

 

[rrcphoto]

Digital imaging sensor is the single most expensive component of any camera so sharing same sensor across multiple models in any generation is smart way of saving money on production. Sharing sensor has nothing to do with crippling which happens with functionality of camera(memory card slots, video features, customisation options, etc...) which according to Canon hampers sales or more "expensive" cameras. As the sensor gets bigger, so does the production cost and ratio of faulty sensors to usable sensors coming out of fab. Hence the reason why larger FF cameras dont seem to share sensors across multiple models.

I am wondering whether the current situation is a little different than it has been in the past, because Canon seems to be in the middle of upgrading all of its cameras to dual pixel technology with on chip ADC, and doing so rather quickly. If the 6DII is announced in July and the SL2 in September, that would only leave the 5Ds(r) and the 7dII (and maybe some M's) with the older sensor technology. The past pattern of not sharing sensors may have reflected a more gradual rate of technology introduction, with longer periods between the introduction of the new cameras. If they are upgrading everything as quickly as possible, why not share sensors?

Some of us have speculated that Canon is in the process of phasing out the old fabrication line, and as a result, everything is being redesigned to fit the newer (finer) lithography.... It is a cost cutting measure, but one which positively affects the camera buying public.

canon started that with the 70D there's no way in hell that a DPAF sensor was using 500nm design rules.

 

[rrcphoto]

Canon used to milk the 18Mpix APS-C sensor for every last drop they could (and it's still being used in the poor little T6/1300D!) Versions of it, with only minor differences,have been in use since 2009, in the 7D, 60D, 550D, 600D, 650D, 700D, 100D, M, M2, M10, 1200D, and the 1300D as mentioned.

actually there was more than minor differences, alot of them had entirely different hybrid AF in the sensor. they were entirely different.

 

[rrcphoto]

Digital imaging sensor is the single most expensive component of any camera so sharing same sensor across multiple models in any generation is smart way of saving money on production. Sharing sensor has nothing to do with crippling which happens with functionality of camera(memory card slots, video features, customisation options, etc...) which according to Canon hampers sales or more "expensive" cameras. As the sensor gets bigger, so does the production cost and ratio of faulty sensors to usable sensors coming out of fab. Hence the reason why larger FF cameras dont seem to share sensors across multiple models.

I am wondering whether the current situation is a little different than it has been in the past, because Canon seems to be in the middle of upgrading all of its cameras to dual pixel technology with on chip ADC, and doing so rather quickly. If the 6DII is announced in July and the SL2 in September, that would only leave the 5Ds(r) and the 7dII (and maybe some M's) with the older sensor technology. The past pattern of not sharing sensors may have reflected a more gradual rate of technology introduction, with longer periods between the introduction of the new cameras. If they are upgrading everything as quickly as possible, why not share sensors?

the sensors need different readout lane numbers because of fps performance. a dual DIGIC chip is different than a single DIGIC chip reading out the channels as an example.

canon really has never shared the exact same sensor across too many cameras. they always tweak it for specific cameras and there is always ongoing changes to the sensors as governed by what patents clear globally that canon can leverage.