Canon EOS RP Specifications & Images

[padam]

I'd really love to finally see a serious video shooter from Canon. Been using my 1DX2 to shoot 4k from time to time and it does really well. But it's bulky for that purpose (especially when trying to put on a Ronin M). I'd hoped for 4k/60 in the EOS R but best we got was 4k/30. But with 10 bit 422 CLog output over HDMI ... which I cant even do 4K output on my DX2. If the EOS RP hits with the same 4k specs as the EOS R, for $1500... I may well be all in purely as a video machine. being able to sling out 4k Canon video (which Sony doesn't compare... sorry) at that level into an Atomos Ninja for things like interviews and regular 24fps shooting... I'm in heaven.

That is really not how it works with Canon.
The smaller (lighter), lower-end camera is a step down equally in terms of photo and video (with the same sensor size) with some different features like the flip-sceen on the 6DII over the 5DIV or optional C-Log on the latter vs 1DXII

So it is highly doubtful that we get any kind of 4k with the EOS RP (or clean HDMI, C-Log, headphone jack, etc.)
The most I was hopeful was an IPB only 4k like the M50 (slower UHS-I slot can still allow that), but even that would put it in a weird position with a better crop factor than the EOS R, so I doubt it is going to happen. Will turn out soon enough anyway.

 

[PureClassA]

That is really not how it works with Canon.
The smaller (lighter), lower-end camera is a step down equally in terms of photo and video (with the same sensor size) with some different features like the flip-sceen on the 6DII over the 5DIV or optional C-Log on the latter vs 1DXII

So it is highly doubtful that we get any kind of 4k with the EOS RP (or clean HDMI, C-Log, headphone jack, etc.)
The most I was hopeful was an IPB only 4k like the M50 (slower UHS-I slot can still allow that), but even that would put it in a weird position with a better crop factor than the EOS R, so I doubt it is going to happen. Will turn out soon enough anyway.

I realize that. But video specs are more often overlooked with Canon. What the EOS R has is basic 4k with a bit stepped up output over HDMI. I dont see see 4k being eliminated altogether in 2019. So 4k at 30 should hold. Now whether it will also have 10bit c log etc is another story. That said, the inital rumored specs CR had included 4K and Clog. Nokishita simply had no video info. Bottom line, we still don't know anything for certain. I suspect CR will have more info within in the next 24 to 36 hours as the rumored release date is imminent

 

[FramerMCB]

I have a question, DSLR's have a shutter that protect the sensor while changing lenses, the sensor is also far in the back, preventing any accidental touch etc. How does mirrorless cameras deal with those two issues, while the sensor is exposed all the time and it is not far from the mounting ring?

Thanks!

Canon's new EOS R closes the shutter when changing lenses (from what I understand).

 

[padam]

I realize that. But video specs are more often overlooked with Canon. What the EOS R has is basic 4k with a bit stepped up output over HDMI. I dont see see 4k being eliminated altogether in 2019. So 4k at 30 should hold. Now whether it will also have 10bit c log etc is another story. That said, the inital rumored specs CR had included 4K and Clog. Nokishita simply had no video info. Bottom line, we still don't know anything for certain. I suspect CR will have more info within in the next 24 to 36 hours as the rumored release date is imminent

The sensor is probably not capable (otherwise the 6D Mark II could have got it already)

It was obviously mistaken for a different model (either the higher-end 'Pro' model or maybe an M5 Mark II, which would have a 24MP APS-C sensor with further cropped 4k and maybe it could get C-Log as an M-series flagship camera). This is first and foremost an entry-level FF stills camera.

 

[PureClassA]

The sensor is probably not capable (otherwise the 6D Mark II could have got it already)

It was obviously mistaken for a different model (either the higher-end 'Pro' model or maybe an M5 Mark II, which would have a 24MP APS-C sensor with further cropped 4k and maybe it could get C-Log as an M-series flagship camera). This is first and foremost an entry-level FF stills camera.

The 6DII sensor is totally capable of it. Canon merely excluded that capability when building the firmware. 4k is 8.8MP. This Sensor is 26MP. Only reason you cant do it is if you deliberately design other components not to, like buffer, recording media, CPU, etc...

The 2012 1DX could shoot 4K. They just only built the firmware for the 1DC a year later. Same Sensor. Same CPUs. Same everything. Just different firmware that allowed for 4K recording

 

[padam]

The 6DII sensor is totally capable of it. Canon merely excluded that capability when building the firmware. 4k is 8.8MP. This Sensor is 26MP. Only reason you cant do it is if you deliberately design other components not to, like buffer, recording media, CPU, etc...

The 2012 1DX could shoot 4K. They just only built the firmware for the 1DC a year later. Same Sensor. Same CPUs. Same everything. Just different firmware that allowed for 4K recording

Difficult to tell, even with Magic Lantern the original 6D can't record in 4k resolution for any given time, if the readout on the 6D Mark II sensor is not any faster, then it may not be capable either. The M50 had to have a new 24MP APS-C sensor to be able to record in 4k, which suggests that the old 24MP sensor in the M5 80D etc. really wasn't 4k capable.

Or we can also look at the 1080p quality between the 5D Mark IV / EOS R versus the 6D Mark II.
The latter is much softer, which suggests that the slower sensor is reading out less pixels for 1080p recording.
So I wonder, if we are going to see some improvement on this front at least, or we are back to this level of 1080p quality, because this is a feature that its potential users would definitely use.



And anyway, will they simply add a feature if the product is positioned at the same place (only being mirrorless) as opposed to the 1DC with its hefty premium? It also needs more care for heat management (more development costs, higher pricetag, smaller gap between models)
It actually makes much more sense for them to have as many reasons as possible to go for the EOS R, if one needs those extra features, it is a formula that has been working for them, they are still going strong with the migration to mirrorless, so there is no need to change it.

For me, the only unexpected positive surprise from them is that the order, which they come out with new R lenses is really making a lot of sense.

 

[crazyrunner33]

The 6DII sensor is totally capable of it. Canon merely excluded that capability when building the firmware. 4k is 8.8MP. This Sensor is 26MP. Only reason you cant do it is if you deliberately design other components not to, like buffer, recording media, CPU, etc...

The 2012 1DX could shoot 4K. They just only built the firmware for the 1DC a year later. Same Sensor. Same CPUs. Same everything. Just different firmware that allowed for 4K recording

Sensor readout speed. The 1DC/1DX only uses an 18 megapixel sensor, the readout didn't need to be as fast. Even with that, it still needed to crop for 4K. The 6D II sensor will be capable of 4K the same way the 5D Mark III is capable of shooting 3.5k, through sensor cropping.

 

[PureClassA]

Sensor readout speed. The 1DC/1DX only uses an 18 megapixel sensor, the readout didn't need to be as fast. Even with that, it still needed to crop for 4K. The 6D II sensor will be capable of 4K the same way the 5D Mark III is capable of shooting 3.5k, through sensor cropping.

Yeah but Canon isn't pixel binning on 4k. It's only using the center 8.8MP, hence the crop factor. It IS doing a full readout and binning with 1080p though as far as I recall. So the full sensor frame at 18 or 26 or 30 (in the case of the R) is being read in HD and then squashed back down to 2.2MP for HiDef.

And the 6DII was released, what, 2 years ago? Not having 4k back then was still mostly passable. I dont think that happens again. Also, we are assuming the sensor is exactly the same as the 6DII. The pixel count and pitch may be fabricated the same, but the onboard ADC it's mounted to could be different/newer (i think the 6D2 also had onboard ADC) which would also affect the readout speeds of the sensor plate itself.

 

[PureClassA]

The issue is the recording speeds. If all we get is a single SDXC slot (like the EOS R) which I'd suspect we will with this lower end model, then it probably would find itself limited to 4K 30 like the R. The DX2 uses a CFAST2 slot that is mandatory to record 4k60. The only other way to get around this would be to allow 4K60 recorded only externally (kinda like the Sony and Panasonics did a couple years back... not sure if they still do)

 

[PureClassA]

Furthermore, if we expect the next iteration of the EOS R to be a "high end" model, (a la, high resolution), then the likelihood of more attractive 4k goes down. Why? Because so far Canon hasn't seemed interested in binning 4K readouts. So What would a 50MP sensor with a dot for dot readout look like? Crop factor of 2 - 2.5x ??? YIKES! So the high end model will either have to have an all new readout readout design with pixel binning across a much larger frame area (if not all) or a 4K feature would be rendered too painful (so far as crop) to put up with and may not even be offered. I would suspect that Canon would more likely have pixel binning in that model, but then that ups the load even more when talking about 4K60... so we are in a holding pattern for now. That said... it's fun to explore the possibilities and debate them. That's why this site exists ;-)

 

[prodorshak]

Crummy Acronym session I​

Wow, 600+ comments for an upcoming camera. Exciting. Reading the comments, I felt that comments, and thus the people commenting, can be classified into following groups (mix & match is of course there):

• a. The new camera should Capture Aesthetic Moments Ergonomically Reliably Affordably (Balanced needs)
• b. The new camera should Capture Anything with Modernized Electric-speed & Resolution Anytime (nerdy needs)
• c. Every new camera is Ceaselessly Abject Megapixel-less Electrophotograph Radiator Algorithm (Pseudo-nerds)
• d. Many cameras Capture Aesthetic Moments Exigenting Retinal Awareness; the new camera should be Forwarding this Frontier (‘arty’ needs).

(extra choice f. Fail to purchase any new products at the moment)

What’s your vote? I vote d and f.

 

[Don Haines]

The 6DII sensor is totally capable of it. Canon merely excluded that capability when building the firmware. 4k is 8.8MP. This Sensor is 26MP. Only reason you cant do it is if you deliberately design other components not to, like buffer, recording media, CPU, etc...

The 2012 1DX could shoot 4K. They just only built the firmware for the 1DC a year later. Same Sensor. Same CPUs. Same everything. Just different firmware that allowed for 4K recording

Or it could be overheating......

 

[PureClassA]

Or it could be overheating......

Certainly a possibility. We know Sony had trouble with that (or maybe it was Panasonic?). Even with the older fabrication process of the off-sensor ADC, Canon managed to do it with the DX just fine. Yes it was DUAL Digic 5 but the 6D2 had a Digic 7 which was much the same power as the dual 5. So I'm not sure heat was the problem. I think 2 years ago Canon made a choice to keep 4k out of it to offer greater distinction to upper models. I just dont think that same logic can fly in 2019 on 4K. And these is no question a Digic 8 can handle it. Again, the sensor may be derived from the 6D2, but Canon seemed adamant 2 years ago that going forward everything would be fabbed with onboard ADC. So same pixel count, new ADC design? That's what I'm guessing.

 

[padam]

$899 for 4k will full readout on a lil’ ol’ crop body compact. EOS RP has no excuse for leaving out 4k

Different companies with different marketing strategies, different sensor sizes, different features. This is utterly pointless.

 

[PureClassA]

26MP is very close to the Nikon Z6, the only question is the pricing of this camera and it's video capabilities. And as to "back to 26MP sensor"..

THAT right there. The Z6 is about $1999. Basic 4K30 with a good 10bit output (Like the EOS R) but it also can accommodate a RAW out format in tandem with Atomos Ninja which can take that and record in ProRes Raw. Pretty cool. That's the sort of thing I think should be reasonable from Canon too. Maybe we dont see something quite so fancy on the $1400 Canon RP but who knows. Maybe something Canon could firmware into the R, but would they? Obviously it's all speculation, but again, we're all having fun here.

 

[PureClassA]

Different companies with different marketing strategies, different sensor sizes, different features. This is utterly pointless.

No doubt. But the Vloggers and small film guys out there are a good market. It's a new Sony camera that just popped up and I was simply offering an alternative thought on the "well it's $1500 and Canon wont..." Look, it's 4K. It's very commonplace now. I think Canon will almost certainly have it on the RP regardless of the 6D2 from 2 years past.

I'm a Canon guy. Always gonna be. Just looking at overall market trends vs just what Canon has done in the past. Even Canon's own brass made public comments that they felt they have moved a little too slow in the past and plan to change that. (That was said about 1-2 years ago now). So I'm speculating with some degree of blind faith here that we will see a very healthy offering overall in the EOS RP.

 

[padam]

No doubt. But the Vloggers and small film guys out there are a good market. It's a new Sony camera that just popped up and I was simply offering an alternative thought on the "well it's $1500 and Canon wont..." Look, it's 4K. It's very commonplace now. I think Canon will almost certainly have it on the RP regardless of the 6D2 from 2 years past.

I'm a Canon guy. Always gonna be. Just looking at overall market trends vs just what Canon has done in the past. Even Canon's own brass made public comments that they felt they have moved a little too slow in the past and plan to change that. (That was said about 1-2 years ago now). So I'm speculating with some degree of blind faith here that we will see a very healthy offering overall in the EOS RP.

Again, by the same token one could say to that the A6400 "it is unacceptable not to have a fully articulating screen that is not in the way of a microphone on a vlogging cam" or "all their other recent models have IBIS" or "the rolling shutter is still horrible" ("lack of APS-C lenses" "colors" "menus", etc. etc.)

I already got attacked ever since the first reliable information came into light about the same pixel count as the 6D II several months ago, and I said it will definitely be the basis (some people still don't believe it, maybe even after it comes out...) and then I thought it might have some form of basic 4k at least.
However, thinking more about it with the model strategy, and now coupled with the pricing, it seems more and more of a surprise if it came out with that included.

 

[PureClassA]

Again, by the same token one could say to that the A6400 "it is unacceptable not to have a fully articulating screen that is not in the way of a microphone on a vlogging cam" or "all their other recent models have IBIS" or "the rolling shutter is still horrible" ("lack of APS-C lenses" "colors" "menus", etc. etc.)

I already got attacked ever since the first reliable information came into light about the same pixel count as the 6D II and I said it will definitely be the basis (some people still don't believe it, maybe even after it comes out...) and then I thought it might have some form of basic 4k at least.
However, thinking more about it with the model strategy, and now coupled with the pricing, it seems more and more of a surprise if it came out with that included.

And that may well be. Only 72 hours before we know for certain. But as I said before, if Canon is true to it's statement a couple years ago about going forward that everything will have on board ADC, that would at least suggest the same pixel count could still be a new sensor design from that standpoint and thus would throw out "it's just the same sensor, different body" debate. So we'll know soon enough.

 

[padam]

And that may well be. Only 72 hours before we know for certain. But as I said before, if Canon is true to it's statement a couple years ago about going forward that everything will have on board ADC, that would at least suggest the same pixel count could still be a new sensor design from that standpoint and thus would throw out "it's just the same sensor, different body" debate. So we'll know soon enough.

From their standpoint, it makes the EOS R less attractive as well as killing 6D II sales and value (yes, they are still very much wanting to sell this camera)
Apart from making new buyers happier, it doesn't look like a good marketing choice to me in either direction. Oh, and it costs more to produce as well as develop.

 

[PureClassA]

From their standpoint, it makes the EOS R less attractive as well as killing 6D II sales and value (yes, they are still very much wanting to sell this camera)
Apart from making new buyers happier, it doesn't look like a good marketing choice to me in either direction. Oh, and it costs more to produce as well as develop.

I think no matter what, it cuts into at least some (if not significantly) 6D2 sales. Both cameras will sport a 26MP FF sensor (let's assume for now exactly the same one) for about the same price. If Canon simply releases a more compact 6D2 whose only real difference is that its mirrorless and accommodate some newer glass... eh. I don't see that doing much for Canon either. That's why I think it makes more sense to make something that does actually have something measurably more attractive for a broader audience. A total rehash of a 6D2 at the same price sitting along side of it just doesn't seem to make any sense to me.

So far as the EOS R, it's still higher res, more FPS, perhaps will have a better output for 4K at 10bit 422, etc... there's room there. I mean, the 6D2 at 26 MP is only 4 less than the 5D4 and both have sold well.