Canon executives say a lot more coming in 2019

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,366
775
There are situations where 5D IV/EOS R recovery isn't enough. Noisy shadow and require bracketing.
There is no situation where a 5D IV will require two (or more) blended frames but an A7r3 will only require one. The DR difference between them is simply too small.

It's surprisingly rare to encounter a scene that requires two frames on a 5Ds/5DsR but only one on a Sony A7r3 or Nikon D8x0, and there's a 2.3ev DR difference in that case.

There's far too much theorizing from tests and scores and not enough actual field experience and side-by-side testing when it comes to stuff like this.
 

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,366
775
They just want us plebes to see the light. All 14.8 EV of it, underexposed by 5 stops and pushed in post, with the editing process documented in uncropped 4K60p video.
They must be testing DR with Nikon but shooting the video with Fuji then. Last I checked the A73 only did 4k30p.

When is Sony going to stop reusing old sensors and give us modern features like Fuji? :LOL:
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,543
1,978
There's far too much theorizing from tests and scores and not enough actual field experience and side-by-side testing when it comes to stuff like this.
I'm disappointed that there are still dinosaurs like you out there, people who think that real-world experience is relevant. Why can't you people just accept that fact that numerical test results are the only thing that matters. I mean really, it's not like the point of these devices is to take pictures or anything silly like that.
 

HarryFilm

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 6, 2016
445
43
Just talking aesthetics, 4K is an abomination. I do not like my actors looking like they are playing dress-up in my living room. Instead of being transported to another world, the ultra high resolution of 4K dooms us to watching ordinary (although better looking than average) people play acting, stripped of all sense of mystery or drama. I know it is unrealistic to expect his, but I truly wish movie theaters would resist the 4K/8K craze. I would like to have at least one refuge for viewing films as an art.
The KEY thing is to present ALL your productions on a decent display (i.e. 4K Laser Projector or OLED at 60 fps), and during editing increase the contrast, use actual lens filters and judiciously use lens flares. I say that you can make ANY footage cinematic by using low and high angles, pans, tilts, AND BY KEEPING THE CAMERA AND SUBJECTS MOVING !!! Dolly shots, crane shots, extreme closeups, zoom in and zoom out ... USE your imagination but ensure the subject matter and/or camera is moving in a graceful and directed way UNLESS the subject matter itself requires that the camera be static.

24 fps, which is the typical Hollywood capture and display rate, is a TEMPORAL ARTIFACT (i.e. time-based) of 1920's era film electrical engineering BUT for some reason ALSO has an effect on the human brain that allows a temporary suspension of current belief which lets you the viewer immerse yourself into the movie.

This time-based "suspension of disbelief" issue is REMOVED when you move to a higher resolution (i.e. 4K) and a higher frame rate (60 fps) UNLESS you make modifications to the video imagery itself (i.e. do Hollywood-style colour grading and high contrast luminance balancing) and use higher quality displays (i.e. 60 fps 4K OLED) and display at the SAME refresh rate original shot (i.e. 60 fps display if shot at 60 fps). Some displays WILL enforce a 120 or 240 hz internal refresh which is designed for sports and action. You NEED to turn that type of refresh rate OFF and set it back to pure 60 fps.

To prevent that "Soap Opera Effect" where video can be too clear and crisp, you may need to actually ADD film grain and extra randomized noise to your video frames by using the filters found within many non-linear video editing programs and special effects plug-ins. You can shoot at a much higher frame rate (60 fps!) and resolution 4k or 8k BUT upon your FINAL edited master output render, YOU ADD extra film grain, randomized noise and bump up your contrast. These steps will make your video APPEAR to come from actual film and will HELP the viewer's brain adjust into a new type of "Suspension of Belief" so that they FEEL they are IN the movie and not just watching a picture displayed on a glass wall.
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Reactions: stevelee
Sep 16, 2014
7
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Canon gave us, for those who need them, the C200 and the C300 M II. What more do people need? I don’t have clients that typically request 4K though I when I have, they have specifically requested the Sony cameras. In my experience, aside of the video quality, they seemed to slow down the shoots due to errors and/or issues with the camera or perhaps the shooter.
 

bokehmon22

EOS RP
Oct 31, 2016
355
186
There is no situation where a 5D IV will require two (or more) blended frames but an A7r3 will only require one. The DR difference between them is simply too small.

It's surprisingly rare to encounter a scene that requires two frames on a 5Ds/5DsR but only one on a Sony A7r3 or Nikon D8x0, and there's a 2.3ev DR difference in that case.

There's far too much theorizing from tests and scores and not enough actual field experience and side-by-side testing when it comes to stuff like this.
I was responding to another poster saying something "I use a 5D IV and never have any issues with DR. If I do, its because of user error."

I never said anything about A7RIII is better than 5D IV DR just simply even with the current sensor tech, we are still limited by the dynamic range. It isn't user error either. Recovering shadow or highlight results in noisy shadow. This is why people blend exposure.
 

unfocused

EOS 5D SR
Jul 20, 2010
4,872
1,132
65
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
...24 fps, which is the typical Hollywood capture and display rate, is a TEMPORAL ARTIFACT (i.e. time-based) of 1920's era film electrical engineering BUT for some reason ALSO has an effect on the human brain that allows a temporary suspension of current belief which lets you the viewer immerse yourself into the movie...
Yes, I understand the technology. Unfortunately, I fear that the current fascination with high resolution will eventually lead to a public expectation that we all should experience films (and I am using "Film" in the generic sense, not in reference to the actual recording medium) in the highest available resolution. Already, too many films are being up-sampled into 4K so that people can feel better about spending money on 4K displays, even if the resulting product destroys the aura and illusion of the original. While I was not familiar with the term "Soap Opera Effect," that is an apt phrase for it as it perfectly illustrates the debasement of film that is occurring.
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,088
1,566
Canada
By accounts on this forum, Canon either lacks 4K or their implementation makes Canon ILCs useless for 4K capture. Yet Canon continues to sell more ILCs than any other manufacturer, all of whom, according to the accounts on this forum, have much better 4K offerings.

So the answer to your question is either that the majority of ILC buyers are clueless, or those on this forum pounding on the importance of 4K are clueless. If you’re wondering which answer is correct, here’s a hint: it’s the one supported by data, not the one supported by your opinion.
There is a third possibility.... Perhaps most people just don't care....
 

QuisUtDeus

EOS 80D
Feb 20, 2019
115
80
There is a third possibility.... Perhaps most people just don't care....
Doesn't that make the people on this forum pounding on the importance of 4k clueless, and slot it right into neuro's second possibility? I have some hobbyist photography friends (in the sense of owning and using a DSLR), and not a one of them cares a whit about video specs or DR. Most barely grasp the exposure triangle. They do love the green box and scene modes.
 
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Dec 6, 2018
86
117
Sony will be releasing its fourth or fifth model with those specs before Canon gets its first to market
As with my last few bodies, I don't need IBIS or 60 frames. But at least my new Canon isn't a dust funnel when changing lenses. Hope Canon can preserve that new innovative feature.
 
Dec 6, 2018
86
117
Maybe those people enjoy taking photos with a photography camera, this 4k60 is ridiculous cause I bet 99% of people complaining don’t shoot 4k60fps because of the file size ....it’s like jpeg vs raw, people complaining about raw file size
That's true. Most people have other more basic needs. And existing Canon gear does a pretty good job as is. For myself, I don't like the size of full frame cameras built for toddler size hands. But aside from that, it's evident why many people can enjoy sticking with Canon cameras and lenses if they simply enjoy general purpose photography.

For my needs, matching the same existing lenses, and the LP-e6 batteries was very streamlined and practical. My bodies, lenses, chargers, cards and spares are similar.
 
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Viggo

EOS 5D SR
Dec 13, 2010
4,098
652
Specs doesn’t replace content, ever... if your video or photos suck now, it would suck just as bad in 4K60 or with 15 stop DR.

Such a whiny thread this.

I use to think if I only had a 14mm prime for example, I could make some really cool landscapes, but eventually realized that if I didn’t shoot cool landscapes with any lens I already owned, I would not with a 14mm either.

I started to get into controlling my own light and look more into improving the shots I already took. No 3 stops of DR, ibis or 4K60 would help One Single Bit.....
 

bhf3737

---
Sep 9, 2015
426
391
Calgary, Canada
www.flickr.com
No, I got his point, which was that 4K video is overrated and not important in stills/video hybrid cameras. I simply disagree. And it's also incorrect to imply that MILCs are not used for professional video work. The Sony A7 series is a very popular camera to see on independent and corporate film sets here in New York.
May be you are looking at a different crowd and assume that they are "professionals".
What pro video productions have are:
  1. Scripted storytelling: making every take matched with the former shots and subsequent video editing in mind
  2. Streamlined video editing: workflow, editing software, color matching, time code, A/V mixers, storage, etc.
  3. Proactive management: personnel, experience, etc.
and finally
4. High quality and high reliability equipment: camera, light and modifiers, filters, camera support gear, gimbals for steady shots, pro audio equipment, etc.

Camera is only one tiny piece of the puzzle and honestly, in professional video work, no one gives a s##t about what camera brand to use and whether it is full-frame, 4K or 60p as long as it matches the workflow and gets the job done on time, budget and with the desired quality. If any wanna-be video pro thinks that 4K 60p is the magic bullet for video production, he/she needs to grow up quite a lot. Just saying.
 

transpo1

EOS 7D MK II
Jan 12, 2011
734
84
May be you are looking at a different crowd and assume that they are "professionals".
What pro video productions have are:
  1. Scripted storytelling: making every take matched with the former shots and subsequent video editing in mind
  2. Streamlined video editing: workflow, editing software, color matching, time code, A/V mixers, storage, etc.
  3. Proactive management: personnel, experience, etc.
and finally
4. High quality and high reliability equipment: camera, light and modifiers, filters, camera support gear, gimbals for steady shots, pro audio equipment, etc.

Camera is only one tiny piece of the puzzle and honestly, in professional video work, no one gives a s##t about what camera brand to use and whether it is full-frame, 4K or 60p as long as it matches the workflow and gets the job done on time, budget and with the desired quality. If any wanna-be video pro thinks that 4K 60p is the magic bullet for video production, he/she needs to grow up quite a lot. Just saying.
Wow. I am taken aback by the ignorance displayed here. Video professionals run the gamut of those using a Sony A7SII on a gimbal for corporate work, to those using a C200 for documentary work, to those renting an Alexa 65 to shoot “Roma.” When I hire a crew in Las Vegas to film a tech conference, or a crew to shoot a short film, I’m always concerned with what camera we’re shooting it on, because each has a different look that will lend itself or not lend itself to the subject matter. And each, of course, affects budget.

We’re not even going to get into the fact that I personally like to do hybrid stills/video shooting but some other points to keep in mind:

—Anyone who gets paid for video work is professional (but they all have varying degrees of skill).
—Scripted storytelling does not mean making every shot match. You’re referring to continuity, but I don’t think you know it.
—Anyone with any knowledge or skill from the director on down to the camera department thinks about what format to film on, as it dictates the look and feel. Every camera is capable of a different look and has different strengths.

I could go on, but you get the picture.

Thanks again for a post filled with true filmmaking ignorance.
 

transpo1

EOS 7D MK II
Jan 12, 2011
734
84
I’m not disputing the merit of your points regarding uses of 4K, merely stating that they are not relevant to the majority. I’m more than happy to debate the merits of the bokeh on my 600/4L IS II, but I recognize that the majority of the market doesn’t give a hoot about such a niche lens.

The point you were arguing against was essentially that ‘4K doesn’t matter to most people’, and the sales data support that point quite effectively.
No, the point I was arguing was that 4K matters to most video people using MILC numbers. I don’t give a #%& about sales figures— I’m thinking about the best possible product. But I do believe that no matter how many cameras Canon’s sold in the past 4 years, they would have sold more if they had more competitive 4K video features.

For a possible indicator from a sales perspective, try taking a chunk out of Sony’s FF MILC sales in the past few years and adding it to Canon’s share. They would have made even more money. Again, I don’t care, because I’m not a Canon shareholder; I’m just thinking about the best possible product for my money as a low-budget professional tool and for hybrid shooting.
 
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Kit.

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 25, 2011
1,143
553
But I do believe that no matter how many cameras Canon’s sold in the past 4 years, they would have sold more if they had more competitive 4K video features.
If Canon is delaying G7X III release because they want to make it shoot 4K DPAF properly, they are losing my money right now, because I don't care if it shoots 4K DPAF (or even 4K at all, thank you very much).
 

transpo1

EOS 7D MK II
Jan 12, 2011
734
84
If Canon is delaying G7X III release because they want to make it shoot 4K DPAF properly, they are losing my money right now, because I don't care if it shoots 4K DPAF (or even 4K at all, thank you very much).
Don't worry, Canon would never do this because, as I think we've seen, they really don't care about delivering competitive 4K video on stills cameras ;)

Also, you're not the demographic I'm talking about.