Canon executives say a lot more coming in 2019

smaruzzi@gmail.com

I'm New Here
Sep 6, 2016
12
3
Sony will be releasing its fourth or fifth model with those specs before Canon gets its first to market
What would make me happy is a shipment date for the prematurely announced new 6 RF lenses, and a super professional body based on the R technology.

Stefano
 

proutprout

EOS M50
Nov 25, 2018
35
41
Except, they’re not...according the to the available data. But if you want to continue to fabricate facts and make yourself appear foolish, by all means continue posting the same drivel!
Crap i thought that’s what forums where here for ! Anyway : everyone i know is dropping Canon ! Here we go truth is saved
 

proutprout

EOS M50
Nov 25, 2018
35
41
4K TVs are everywhere in the USA; many computer and even the latest smartphone displays are greater than HD (revealing the resolution limitations of HD footage); and most video work is shot in 4K even when finishing in HD, to make use of the greater resolution to reframe and to enhance quality; also, many pros and prosumers need and want a hybrid camera that does stills and video; and, to top it off, many corporate productions are shot on Sony FS7s and the matching A7 series is used for a ton of gimbal work. All this goes without mentioning any future proofing benefits of shooting in 4K.

So, really who's clueless here?
Exactly, it’s like : you dont need a faster processor on your computer... wake up 4k is mandatory !
 

proutprout

EOS M50
Nov 25, 2018
35
41
So the answer to your question is either that the majority of ILC buyers are clueless, or those on this forum pounding on the importance of 4K are clueless. If you’re wondering which answer is correct, here’s a hint: it’s the one supported by data, not the one supported by your opinion.
Look : « everyone buying lala »... in a market that’s down 30% since last year ! Put the facts in perspective : Canon’s cameras are Uninspiring ! So no one buys them. You can rant about the fact they are leaders on the market yes, but on a dying market.

Phones’s cameras are very inspiring compared to dslr/mirrosless today. We need great cameras, with amazing performances, the same way phones grew this last decade. Canon should make a phone for Christ sake ! They are stucked in the 80´s with retro-dead tech. Come on wake up !
 
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proutprout

EOS M50
Nov 25, 2018
35
41
It’s amusing when people think anecdotes and data are synonymous. But also sad.
Dont be sad, it’s a forum ! If you want the truth go do a PHD. You’ll have 5 years to ponder on truth and exactitude ! Than you can go on forums and just have fun while other people think you’re all about truth...
 

dba101

EOS M50
Sep 11, 2018
33
46
Crap i thought that’s what forums where here for ! Anyway : everyone i know is dropping Canon ! Here we go truth is saved
Thing is when you leave your teenage years behind there's a big wide world out there. You will see.
 

Del Paso

M3 Singlestroke
Aug 9, 2018
526
501
Still. I joined Canon's Australian R&D group in 2011 and he was then 74, and they categorically said they'd be installing younger blood progressively and now he's an 82-year-old fossil still running them. You can see why Canon are no longer the trail blazers.
So, if you're 82 you are a fossil?
What about getting polite?????
 
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Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,129
1,650
Canada
Here is the Canon 7D sensor measurement at PhotonsToPhotos vs. the S1. Not 7D mark II, but the original. Worse dynamic range than a 6D2 or RP.

View attachment 183832

That's a difference of 3.5 stops. Based on that you would assume a massive difference in shadow recovery, would you not?
So what you are saying is that a FF camera that came out in 2019 is better than a crop camera that came out in 2009?
 

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,390
824
The funny part about this is Sony makes all of Fuji's sensors including their MF GFX line. I guess they aren't that old after all lol!
Hey now! You're pointing out facts! That's like pointing out that Canon's latest cameras have 4k video to the people complaining about needing 4k video. It messes up the narrative!
 
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dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,390
824
So what you are saying is that a FF camera that came out in 2019 is better than a crop camera that came out in 2009?
I'm saying that a whopping 3.5 stops of difference in these DR tests means relatively little, and 1 stop means nothing.

Complaining about the DR in the 5D4 or R is like complaining that the A73 only has 24mp while the 6D2 and RP have 26mp. (When is Sony going to stop recycling sensors and give us 27 or even 28mp??? If they don't fix this soon I'm switching to Canon!)

The incessant complaining on this board about relatively minor spec sheet differences gets on some of our nerves, as does the exaggeration of those differences. Different spec but as I pointed out earlier reading this thread one might walk away thinking that Canon doesn't have 4k on any camera yet while Sony A7 bodies some how magically gained 4k60p.
 

bokehmon22

EOS RP
Oct 31, 2016
356
186
Here is the Canon 7D sensor measurement at PhotonsToPhotos vs. the S1. Not 7D mark II, but the original. Worse dynamic range than a 6D2 or RP.

View attachment 183832

That's a difference of 3.5 stops. Based on that you would assume a massive difference in shadow recovery, would you not?

I've posted this before, but so that it can be easily compared to the Panasonic sample you posted:

View attachment 183833

The shadow recovery in the Panasonic sample is deeper, but not by visual leaps and bounds as people who study graphs and scores might imagine. (And I held the sky ;) )

Point is once you get to the roughly "1ev" range between the 5D4 and a S1 or D850, you're looking at small differences in noise quality while pixel peeping. You're not actually looking at differences in what can be recognizably recovered and used.

The problem with both PhotonsToPhotos and DxO is that nobody includes a clear legend which puts these differences into a meaningful context.
The read noise for Panasonic S1 is alot lower. This could mean less noise in the shadow recovery. I don't know but it requires more testing.

In your sample, there is clarity, vibrance and saturation adjustments. In the sample provided, the photographer made no adjustment to those area : https://www.l-rumors.com/page/2/

How would this translate in real life? I don't know...I print large canvas 24 x 36 pretty often and pretty adept with post processing so I'll see if there is a huge differences in my workflow.

It's a nice bonus to have a competitive sensor that rival Nikon and Sony. Panasonic S1 definite is a great bang for your buck vs Canon EOS R that's similar price without IBIS, dual card slot, 2 year old sensor, focus bracketing, joystick, 5.76 million dot EVF, 4K60, high resolution mode, backlit buttons with alot of things that make Canon a good camera (ergonomic, weather seal, menu, fully touch screen LCD, logical button layout).

I'm not saying all this because I'm a Panasonic fanboy but just as someone who is brand agnostic looking for a great value. I have no problem buying into Canon again if they provide competitive offering with their EOS R Pro line at a competitive value.

We are really chasing a diminish return on newer camera body and lenses. I bought the Panasonic S1 for $2250 NEW with free battery and grip ($435). If I sell my 5D IV, I can probably get around $2000 for it. It's hard justifying buying EOS R for $2300 retail price even though I make money off photography and can afford more. I think Canon really need to rethink their value proposition. They are competing against themselves to protect their DSLR/cinema line vs what the competitors are offering.


183842


http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/RN_ADU.htm
 

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transpo1

EOS 7D MK II
Jan 12, 2011
743
90
You are saying that Canon could sell more cameras if they were targeting a specific "demographic". I am saying that if it involves extra effort in development and/or production, Canon might actually end up selling less cameras.
If Canon includes more competitive video features on their cameras, they will end up encompassing another demographic, selling more cameras. But they must have the will to do the R&D to make it happen and include the features in the first place. In the long run, if they invest in the development, these features will sell more cameras, not less. And I don't think their development process could get slower than it already is.
 
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transpo1

EOS 7D MK II
Jan 12, 2011
743
90
Can you say "fast track?" Canon must be hearing an earful about lack of pro MILC bodies...
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,607
2,060
Dont be sad, it’s a forum ! If you want the truth go do a PHD. You’ll have 5 years to ponder on truth and exactitude ! Than you can go on forums and just have fun while other people think you’re all about truth...
I’m sad for people who can’t grasp basic facts, refuse to admit their mistakes, and believe their opinon trumps reality. No plans to do another PhD, the one I have is sufficient.
 

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,390
824
The read noise for Panasonic S1 is alot lower. This could mean less noise in the shadow recovery.
I'm absolutely certain it does mean that. But how that translates to practical, in field differences is the point that is lost when people complain about scores.

In your sample, there is clarity, vibrance and saturation adjustments.
None of which affect the actual shadow recovery.

It's a nice bonus to have a competitive sensor that rival Nikon and Sony. Panasonic S1 definite is a great bang for your buck vs Canon EOS R that's similar price without IBIS, dual card slot, 2 year old sensor,
And we're right back to the "old, uncompetitive sensor" narrative :rolleyes:

I agree the new S bodies are interesting and well spec'd. But sensor vs. sensor I would pick the R's 30mp over the S1's 24mp (for stills) because that difference might actually be visible in a few cases (large prints and/or extreme cropping). The DxO scores in your screenshot aren't going to be visible any where outside of 200% pixel peeping. Canon's 30mp sensor is competitive.

If I sell my 5D IV, I can probably get around $2000 for it. It's hard justifying buying EOS R for $2300 retail price even though I make money off photography and can afford more.
I admittedly would not sell a 5D4 for an R if I was facing that decision.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,607
2,060
If Canon includes more competitive video features on their cameras, they will end up encompassing another demographic, selling more cameras. But they must have the will to do the R&D to make it happen and include the features in the first place. In the long run, if they invest in the development, these features will sell more cameras, not less. And I don't think their development process could get slower than it already is.
The fact that, for the most part, the features you are referring to are already available on Canon cameras (albeit in some cases only the 1-series or Cinema line) indicates the research has been done, as far as the technical aspects, and those are features they could include across the lineups. But Canon also does another type of research —market research...and that provides data on which features they should include. The fact that they haven’t included the features you want in the models you want them in suggests their research led to conclusions that differ from yours. I suspect their market research on how to drive sales is more reliable than your personal opinion on what Canon should do (certainly their ongoing ILC market dominance suggests they’re doing things right despite mounds of contrary ‘expert advice’ on these forums), but either way it’s irrelevant because the decisions are theirs.
 
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dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,390
824
I suspect their market research in how to drive sales is more reliable than your personal opinion on what Canon should do, but either way it’s irrelevant because the decisions are theirs.
What? You think the globe's #1 ILC manufacturer has more reliable market research than people complaining on a forum???

That's just crazy talk! :LOL: