Canon Explains Canon Log on the EOS 5D Mark IV

Matt Williams

I'm New Here
Jul 1, 2016
13
1
kingrobertii said:
The crop really isn't that bad though. If you absolutely NEED that super wide shot, use your C300 or IDX. It sounds like you have plenty to work with. I am sure it is frustrating, but with that much camera power, I would imagine you could find a way to make it work...
The main reason I have a problem with the crop on the 5D4 isn't really to do with not being able to get wide angle shots (I have lenses that will get me the wides I need), it's that it's a lot harder to get the same shallow depth of field with a cropped sensor. And particularly when filming interviews, it's good to have that shallow depth of field.
 
Matt Williams said:
kingrobertii said:
The crop really isn't that bad though. If you absolutely NEED that super wide shot, use your C300 or IDX. It sounds like you have plenty to work with. I am sure it is frustrating, but with that much camera power, I would imagine you could find a way to make it work...
The main reason I have a problem with the crop on the 5D4 isn't really to do with not being able to get wide angle shots (I have lenses that will get me the wides I need), it's that it's a lot harder to get the same shallow depth of field with a cropped sensor. And particularly when filming interviews, it's good to have that shallow depth of field.
I completely understand that. A majority of what I shoot with my 5D IV and 5D II is interviews. I would imagine a good piece of cine glass or a f/1.8-1.2 would solve that problem for the most part. At least to an extent.
 

gregory4000

EOS M50
Mar 12, 2015
49
0
RayValdez360 said:
TeT said:
bsbeamer said:
Matt Williams said:
It’s hugely insulting that Canon has brought this to the 5D4 and not the 1DX MkII. Canon clearly realise the importance of CLog to professional users, and so to not offer it on their flagship pro DSLR when they have proven it is possible, is contemptible.
the outrage for the lack of an update for the 1DX2 is (slowly) growing... really wonder when the 1DC will stop being sold as a product. I'd figure as soon as that happens, the CLOG update for the 1DX2 will suddenly be realized and offered.
1DCII gets released before IDXII gets CLOG; that's my guess on what they are thinking... May change, who knows..
Seeing how Sony was brave enough not put S log on the a9. It reaffirms canon's potion that a sports camera is a sports camera and is made for stills primarily. Why did they add all the video features and 4k 60p. God only knows....
Use common sense reasoning, you'll figure it out.
 

unfocused

EOS 1D MK II
Jul 20, 2010
5,049
1,432
66
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
Why oh why are people incapable of actually watching the video or reading the story?

Canon chose the 5DIV because they wanted a compact, inexpensive (by professional standards) "B" camera available to their high end video customers. The price difference between the 5D and 1DX starts to add up when you need multiple cameras -- especially if some might be crash cams.

The rationale is explained in the video. I'm a 1DX II owner and I'm not the least bit upset by what seems to be a perfectly rational business decision on Canon's part.
 

gregory4000

EOS M50
Mar 12, 2015
49
0
unfocused said:
Why oh why are people incapable of actually watching the video or reading the story?

Canon chose the 5DIV because they wanted a compact, inexpensive (by professional standards) "B" camera available to their high end video customers. The price difference between the 5D and 1DX starts to add up when you need multiple cameras -- especially if some might be crash cams.

The rationale is explained in the video. I'm a 1DX II owner and I'm not the least bit upset by what seems to be a perfectly rational business decision on Canon's part.
Don't be a smart ass.
Your naive if you accept Canon's remarks. This is what we call a damage control statement.
Canon, just like Sony, Nikon or any other large company that make multiple / similar products has to do a delicate balancing act to increase their market exposure, rake in as much revenue as possible and not piss off their existing customers. It's just that simple!
 

dak723

EOS 6D MK II
Oct 26, 2013
1,141
434
unfocused said:
Why oh why are people incapable of actually watching the video or reading the story?

Canon chose the 5DIV because they wanted a compact, inexpensive (by professional standards) "B" camera available to their high end video customers. The price difference between the 5D and 1DX starts to add up when you need multiple cameras -- especially if some might be crash cams.

The rationale is explained in the video. I'm a 1DX II owner and I'm not the least bit upset by what seems to be a perfectly rational business decision on Canon's part.
Shame on you! Don't you know that to be a REAL CR contributor, you need to whine like a 6 year old if you don't get what you want, or believe that it is all a conspiracy by Canon to screw their customers! Geez, please try again!! :p
 

RayValdez360

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 6, 2012
431
187
gregory4000 said:
RayValdez360 said:
TeT said:
bsbeamer said:
Matt Williams said:
It’s hugely insulting that Canon has brought this to the 5D4 and not the 1DX MkII. Canon clearly realise the importance of CLog to professional users, and so to not offer it on their flagship pro DSLR when they have proven it is possible, is contemptible.
the outrage for the lack of an update for the 1DX2 is (slowly) growing... really wonder when the 1DC will stop being sold as a product. I'd figure as soon as that happens, the CLOG update for the 1DX2 will suddenly be realized and offered.
1DCII gets released before IDXII gets CLOG; that's my guess on what they are thinking... May change, who knows..
Seeing how Sony was brave enough not put S log on the a9. It reaffirms canon's potion that a sports camera is a sports camera and is made for stills primarily. Why did they add all the video features and 4k 60p. God only knows....
Use common sense reasoning, you'll figure it out.
I always use common sense. Canon will never sell a dslr with "all the features" even if it is a flagship. You end up buying each for a different purpose if you need to. Sony took a step backwards( for the customers) with giving us an all-in-one camera, probably because they are doing ok and will only get much better with their sales in the near future. it's time for them to differentiate their cameras like canon does to make more profit not to actually make the customer totally satisfied. At the end of the day c log is a software update, i cant imagine it costing much or being hard to implement in a more powerful camera.
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
7,973
1,189
119
RayValdez360 said:
I always use common sense. Canon will never sell a dslr with "all the features" even if it is a flagship. You end up buying each for a different purpose if you need to. Sony took a step backwards( for the customers) with giving us an all-in-one camera, probably because they are doing ok and will only get much better with their sales in the near future. it's time for them to differentiate their cameras like canon does to make more profit not to actually make the customer totally satisfied. At the end of the day c log is a software update, i cant imagine it costing much or being hard to implement in a more powerful camera.
They did with the 1DC.

Also you can't ignore the fact that processing power has a limit, because of that if you demand highest possible MP then you can't have highest possible fps, but for its time the 1DC had close to everything. You can get a brand new one today for under $4,000.
 

IglooEater

EOS 6D MK II
Nov 15, 2014
904
0
privatebydesign said:
RayValdez360 said:
I always use common sense. Canon will never sell a dslr with "all the features" even if it is a flagship. You end up buying each for a different purpose if you need to. Sony took a step backwards( for the customers) with giving us an all-in-one camera, probably because they are doing ok and will only get much better with their sales in the near future. it's time for them to differentiate their cameras like canon does to make more profit not to actually make the customer totally satisfied. At the end of the day c log is a software update, i cant imagine it costing much or being hard to implement in a more powerful camera.
They did with the 1DC.
Yes they did. At $15,000 at release, it was more expensive than a 1DX II and a 5D IV together.
 

ExodistPhotography

Photographer, Artist & Youtuber
Feb 20, 2016
224
1
41
Phillippines
www.youtube.com
RayValdez360 said:
.......... i cant imagine it costing much or being hard to implement in a more powerful camera.
From having dealt with Canon Services multiple times. Its more the likely that $100 goes to having to take the body open and update the software from inside. Keep in mind that often means the rubber on the body/grip has to be replaced and re-glued back down. So it does cost Canon to have it updated.

That said, those who complain here about a petty $100 bucks.. Chances are you do not own the camera anyway.. Nor would be in the market to need C-Log. That said, there is the budget option for everyone else. Just go get CineStyle from Technicolor, its free.. Or splurge your wallet and spend $20 on EOSHD picture style. While they will not get you the improved dynamic range since they do not change the color gamut. They will sure as heck flatten that S-curve down a huge amount to make most of the general public pretty happy.
 

tr573

EOS RP
Dec 2, 2015
218
0
Matt Williams said:
Not bringing CLOG to the 1DX2 when they've shown it is possible and they're willing to do so with the 5D4 is very frustrating though. I own a C300 MkII which I spent a great deal of money on, and I currently use a 1DX2 as a B camera for interviews etc. I actually also own a 5D4 as well (which I currently mainly use for photography), but with them only offering CLOG on the 5D4 I'm in a position where I either shoot on the 5D4 in CLOG (which will match to my C300II) but with the horrible cropped sensor, or I shoot on the 1DX2 which whilst it doesn't have the horrible crop, doesn't have CLOG!
Honest Q - when your main camera is a Super35, why is the only slightly larger crop factor of the 5D4 such a big deal? Do you keep a FF DSLR around as your B cam to get you wider than you can with the C300 and your lens set?

(I know intent is hard to carry in text, this is an honest question, not trying to be a jerk.)
 
tr573 said:
Matt Williams said:
Not bringing CLOG to the 1DX2 when they've shown it is possible and they're willing to do so with the 5D4 is very frustrating though. I own a C300 MkII which I spent a great deal of money on, and I currently use a 1DX2 as a B camera for interviews etc. I actually also own a 5D4 as well (which I currently mainly use for photography), but with them only offering CLOG on the 5D4 I'm in a position where I either shoot on the 5D4 in CLOG (which will match to my C300II) but with the horrible cropped sensor, or I shoot on the 1DX2 which whilst it doesn't have the horrible crop, doesn't have CLOG!
The easy answer is that it isn't a big deal. Some people want it all in a camera. But the truth is there is no perfect camera. I've been shooting on my 5D IV and I have never ran into an issue where I couldn't figure out a way to get around the crop.
Honest Q - when your main camera is a Super35, why is the only slightly larger crop factor of the 5D4 such a big deal? Do you keep a FF DSLR around as your B cam to get you wider than you can with the C300 and your lens set?

(I know intent is hard to carry in text, this is an honest question, not trying to be a jerk.)
 

ExodistPhotography

Photographer, Artist & Youtuber
Feb 20, 2016
224
1
41
Phillippines
www.youtube.com
tr573 said:
Matt Williams said:
Not bringing CLOG to the 1DX2 when they've shown it is possible and they're willing to do so with the 5D4 is very frustrating though. I own a C300 MkII which I spent a great deal of money on, and I currently use a 1DX2 as a B camera for interviews etc. I actually also own a 5D4 as well (which I currently mainly use for photography), but with them only offering CLOG on the 5D4 I'm in a position where I either shoot on the 5D4 in CLOG (which will match to my C300II) but with the horrible cropped sensor, or I shoot on the 1DX2 which whilst it doesn't have the horrible crop, doesn't have CLOG!
Honest Q - when your main camera is a Super35, why is the only slightly larger crop factor of the 5D4 such a big deal? Do you keep a FF DSLR around as your B cam to get you wider than you can with the C300 and your lens set?

(I know intent is hard to carry in text, this is an honest question, not trying to be a jerk.)
I also think that is a very fair question as well. Even the Blackmagic 4k Cinema Camera is Super35 IIRC.. Which seems to be the larger size for a lot of high end professional video cameras, many go down to m43 size or smaller that are not 4k.. (the 2.5k cinema camera is a tiny 15.6 x 8.8mm). Now the 5D4 4k crop is actually 1.74, which is smaller then Super35. Its actually close to Sigmas Phoveon mess.. Other then the fact that Sony does a full sensor read out and there is that spite. But if someone normally does use professional video cameras that use Super35. A 1.74 crop for a B cam is still very good.

Me personally the only real reason I would have a complaint about the crop factor is not being able to put official Canon EF-S lenses on it. Now the Sigma 18-35mm Art will fit and work. At least I see no reason what so ever it would not. My only complaint is the freaking large size of motion Jpeg.. Why could they not just gave the option for 30 & 24 fps ALL-I..

I think many assume the high price of the C300 II means, full frame sensor. Which is far from the truth. Or they just get confused over what a Super35mm is and what true 35mm equivalent Full Frame is..
 

Matt Williams

I'm New Here
Jul 1, 2016
13
1
tr573 said:
Matt Williams said:
Not bringing CLOG to the 1DX2 when they've shown it is possible and they're willing to do so with the 5D4 is very frustrating though. I own a C300 MkII which I spent a great deal of money on, and I currently use a 1DX2 as a B camera for interviews etc. I actually also own a 5D4 as well (which I currently mainly use for photography), but with them only offering CLOG on the 5D4 I'm in a position where I either shoot on the 5D4 in CLOG (which will match to my C300II) but with the horrible cropped sensor, or I shoot on the 1DX2 which whilst it doesn't have the horrible crop, doesn't have CLOG!

Honest Q - when your main camera is a Super35, why is the only slightly larger crop factor of the 5D4 such a big deal? Do you keep a FF DSLR around as your B cam to get you wider than you can with the C300 and your lens set?

(I know intent is hard to carry in text, this is an honest question, not trying to be a jerk.)
Hi, that's a fair enough question. Shooting interviews I tend to have the C300II on a CU with the 70-200 (usually at the long end) and then my 1DXII shooting the wide with a prime on. The 1DXII in 4K is about a 1.3ish crop and so with a prime I get a nice shallow depth of field. The C300II whilst it is a Super 35mm sensor I still get a shallow depth of field because of the long focal length.

I know it doesn't sound much difference between a 1.3 crop and a 1.74 crop, but when you're shooting in a small room (as interviews invariably are) it can be a real struggle to get that shallow depth of field on the wide cam anyway, even with a prime wide open - so the bigger the sensor the better, and that's why I like the 1.3 crop on my 1DXII for the wide. Of course it's all personal preference.
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
7,973
1,189
119
Matt Williams said:
tr573 said:
Matt Williams said:
Not bringing CLOG to the 1DX2 when they've shown it is possible and they're willing to do so with the 5D4 is very frustrating though. I own a C300 MkII which I spent a great deal of money on, and I currently use a 1DX2 as a B camera for interviews etc. I actually also own a 5D4 as well (which I currently mainly use for photography), but with them only offering CLOG on the 5D4 I'm in a position where I either shoot on the 5D4 in CLOG (which will match to my C300II) but with the horrible cropped sensor, or I shoot on the 1DX2 which whilst it doesn't have the horrible crop, doesn't have CLOG!

Honest Q - when your main camera is a Super35, why is the only slightly larger crop factor of the 5D4 such a big deal? Do you keep a FF DSLR around as your B cam to get you wider than you can with the C300 and your lens set?

(I know intent is hard to carry in text, this is an honest question, not trying to be a jerk.)
Hi, that's a fair enough question. Shooting interviews I tend to have the C300II on a CU with the 70-200 (usually at the long end) and then my 1DXII shooting the wide with a prime on. The 1DXII in 4K is about a 1.3ish crop and so with a prime I get a nice shallow depth of field. The C300II whilst it is a Super 35mm sensor I still get a shallow depth of field because of the long focal length.

I know it doesn't sound much difference between a 1.3 crop and a 1.74 crop, but when you're shooting in a small room (as interviews invariably are) it can be a real struggle to get that shallow depth of field on the wide cam anyway, even with a prime wide open - so the bigger the sensor the better, and that's why I like the 1.3 crop on my 1DXII for the wide. Of course it's all personal preference.
The difference between 1.3 and 1.74 crop is effectively a stop.

If you had an f2 aperture lens wide open it would be an effective f2.6 on the 1DX MkII, a 2/3 rd stop loss, and f3.48 on the C300II, 5/3 rds stop less than a 135 format and very close to 1 full stop less dof than the 1DX MkII crop mode.
 

RunAndGun

EOS RP
Dec 16, 2011
323
27
Hector1970 said:
I thought CLog was a type of wooden shoe from The Netherlands. Why are Canon trying to add it to my 5DIV?
Seriously though what is CLog and how does it make a difference?.
In film making is it all about post processing as opposed to getting it right in camera?
I'm not a film maker so it's a bit alien to me but wouldn't you be better off focusing on a better film idea, script and cast rather than CLog
I probably don't appreciate the finer details in film but HD looks pretty good to me and I struggle to a huge improvement in 4K. I'm just wonder if videographers are sometimes focused on the wrong thing (the gear rather than the content) like many photographers are.
More or less, LOG is about post processing: giving you the most latitude and adjustment in the image for post. LOG images are unusable as-is. VERY flat and grey.