Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Talk [CR1]

midluk

EOS RP
Aug 27, 2015
321
0
neuroanatomist said:
privatebydesign said:
I've got just under 2,000 shots with 25% left after a week with GPS in mode 1 and the camera in the 'On' position 18 hours a day, on the batteries first charge.
Yeah, but what happens when you need 8,000 shots in a week and you've lost the charger? Clearly, you should switch to Sony. :)
I'm pretty sure, when you use the camera for a whole week with EVF, you will get even more than 8000 shots from the Sony!!!!! Fortunately it does not have that power hungry OVF ::)
 

dak723

EOS 6D MK II
Oct 26, 2013
1,141
434
gregory4000 said:
Wow, Iv'e been reading a lot of comments to get to this point. And I'm surprised how 95% of the readers don't get it.
Sony is a serious threat to Canon and Nikon.
Who cares?

Why does it matter to anyone on this forum which company is No. 1 or No. 3? These are not sports teams. These are not countries where having a serious threat may actually mean something. They are companies that sell cameras, lenses and other photographic accessories. They will continue to do so regardless if Canon is No.1 or Sony is No. 1.

I hasten to guess what percentage of CR Rumors readers don't get it. ???
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,617
2,088
dak723 said:
They are companies that sell cameras, lenses and other photographic accessories. They will continue to do so regardless if Canon is No.1 or Sony is No. 1.
Just like Samsung continued selling cameras regardless?

Just like Sony continued selling PCs regardless?

[quote author=Sony in 2014]
Though we are discontinuing the sale of PCs, we will continue to offer after-sales support for all Sony branded VAIO PCs in accordance with local laws, regulations and warranty policies.
[/quote]

Get it?
 

bdunbar79

EOS 5D MK IV
May 16, 2012
3,152
0
40
Wadsworth, OH
dak723 said:
gregory4000 said:
Wow, Iv'e been reading a lot of comments to get to this point. And I'm surprised how 95% of the readers don't get it.
Sony is a serious threat to Canon and Nikon.
Who cares?

Why does it matter to anyone on this forum which company is No. 1 or No. 3? These are not sports teams. These are not countries where having a serious threat may actually mean something. They are companies that sell cameras, lenses and other photographic accessories. They will continue to do so regardless if Canon is No.1 or Sony is No. 1.

I hasten to guess what percentage of CR Rumors readers don't get it. ???
Oh the irony...
 

bdunbar79

EOS 5D MK IV
May 16, 2012
3,152
0
40
Wadsworth, OH
pokerz said:
bdunbar79 said:
douglaurent said:
privatebydesign said:
canonographer said:
Don Haines said:
neuroanatomist said:
canonographer said:
Comparing these lists, I'd say Sony has an easier path to closing their gaps than Canon does.
Except for the sales and market share gaps. ;)
And service gaps.....
And lack of lens selection gaps......
And lack of flashes gaps......
I can only speak for myself and what I care about as a landscape enthusiast. And when I'm out shooting, I don't really care about market share, or professional services, or flashes. For the type of landscape work I do, there are no lens gaps anymore, none, although they are generally too expensive and the Zeiss lenses aren't as rugged as I'd like.

I can tell you though that I will never go back to shooting landscape with an OVF. Clinging to an OVF is a lot like clinging to film. It's that big of a game changer, no question.

FWIW, I also can't see any reason to sacrifice IBIS, better dynamic range, and better ISO performance.
Interesting, when did Sony come out with a range of four tilt shift lenses? Anybody serious about landscapes that doesn't know the extreme benefits of T/S lenses is just playing at taking pretty pictures.
Owning all current 8 Canon and Nikon Tilt Shift lenses, I can reassure you that they all work great on the Sony A7R2 - AND do work even better on the Sony body as they are stabilized.
I think you missed his point. You stated that Canon had no advantage over SONY regarding landscape photography. Clearly they have a very large advantage over SONY in landscape photography; tilt-shift lenses.
Adapt all Canon Nikon TS len to sony body.
ie. Clearly they are a very large advantage over CANON
So we're supposed to be impressed because Canon has superior lenses that go on an inferior body? Or rather, Nikon's inferior T/S lenses? What if Canon's T/S lenses couldn't adapt to Sony cameras? Ooo, then what? Seems Sony has some dependence here on Canon whereas Canon has absolutely zero dependence on Sony for anything whatsoever.
 

dak723

EOS 6D MK II
Oct 26, 2013
1,141
434
neuroanatomist said:
dak723 said:
They are companies that sell cameras, lenses and other photographic accessories. They will continue to do so regardless if Canon is No.1 or Sony is No. 1.
Just like Samsung continued selling cameras regardless?

Just like Sony continued selling PCs regardless?

[quote author=Sony in 2014]
Though we are discontinuing the sale of PCs, we will continue to offer after-sales support for all Sony branded VAIO PCs in accordance with local laws, regulations and warranty policies.
Get it?
[/quote]

So what you are saying is that you believe that Canon will get out of the Camera business if they fall to No. 3?

If not, you totally missed my point. But that is what folks on this forum do, don't they.

They don't even try to understand what someone else is saying.
 

mb66energy

EOS 6D MK II
Dec 18, 2011
1,297
205
Germany
www.MichaelBockhorst.de
After reading some posts I decided to be satisfied with my inferior 5D classic and the great 70-200 f/4 IS USM, wait a little bit for a Canon FF mirrorless with DPAF or buy a 7 ii with stabilization and the chance to use FD lenses (the great 2.5 135 or the small but optically not so great 4.0 17 or ...)

Sun is coming out before sunset so I will shoot a little bit and enjoy what I have.
 

Pixel

EOS 80D
Sep 6, 2011
106
7
These people who tout their "XXX" brand the best over "YYY" brand should buy stock in the companies that way the trash talking actually has a purpose and not just meaningless posturing.
 

LonelyBoy

EOS 7D MK II
Feb 18, 2015
745
0
mb66energy said:
After reading some posts I decided to be satisfied with my inferior 5D classic and the great 70-200 f/4 IS USM, wait a little bit for a Canon FF mirrorless with DPAF or buy a 7 ii with stabilization and the chance to use FD lenses (the great 2.5 135 or the small but optically not so great 4.0 17 or ...)

Sun is coming out before sunset so I will shoot a little bit and enjoy what I have.
That last bit is always a good idea. 8)
 
Oct 7, 2013
350
0
actually for most photographers, they don't care about your little 20+ whiny points, because they still purchase canon cameras, and enjoy using them.

and I really doubt you have all these cameras, and as you say - use them every day. frankly I doubt you have anything other than a freaking Fischer price camera that you play with in your mom's basement.
[/quote]

I have approx 50 cameras and 300 lenses, which is why I know what I'm talking about. What do you own exactly?

It seems you will be really angry about Canon when they start to release mirrorless cameras in 2018, and starting to implement my stupid little whiny points. Sad for you that Canon turns into a mirrorless loser company like Sony in the coming years. Then you can only remember the great times between 2008 and 2018, when Canon DSLRs had hardly any significant improvements between each model.
 
Oct 7, 2013
350
0
neuroanatomist said:
douglaurent said:
The main question here is: why are people who don't think that anything from extremely steady sensor stabilization to seeing the actual exposure in a viewfinder and many other obvious and basic improvements do even spend time in a forum that is all about new product developments, when in fact they are not interested in any of that? Or what are the great features YOU want to see from Canon? Please send us your wish list.
I want a 600/4 that's shorter than my arm (i.e., DO) with a built-in, dedicated flip-out 1.4x TC. I want a high-MP sensor in a 1-series body. I want a 90mm TS-E with push-button orientation change for T relative to S. I want an OEM -RT receiver which would allow me to integrate monolights with an ST-E3/600EX-RT system. I wanted DPAF in a small M form factor, Canon delivered that one already and I will be ordering an M6 before my next trip.
Now THESE are really things that the whole world is waiting and asking for! Congrats! Much more important than seeing the actual exposure in the viewfinder or a dedicated ISO wheel!
 
Oct 7, 2013
350
0
Mikehit said:
unfocused said:
rrcphoto said:
...and I really doubt you have all these cameras, and as you say - use them every day. frankly I doubt you have anything other than a freaking Fischer price camera that you play with in your mom's basement.
In a previous thread, he indicated that he owns/runs a rental business. I find that plausible. But, that would also help explain the obsessive fascination with "features." Photographers who use a camera day in and day out and rely on it to put food on the table tend to be less enamored of new features. Instead, most want a reliable tool that they are familiar with and produces predictable and repeatable results. A rental shop owner needs to provide the latest toys and tools for people to try out and to use for specialized purposes. The mistake Mr. Laurent seems to be making is thinking that his experience and preferences can be extended to a majority or even a sizable minority of photographers.
Then again, someone who runs a rental business and claims to have every camera available to them would know the sort of thing the general consumer wants and how it fits into the general market.
Douglaurent seems to be ignorant of both.
Not really. A few years ago you could have satisfied people with 100% Canon branded products. Today Canon requests are 25% and the rest is Sony, Panasonic, Sigma etc. If you don't see this shift, good luck for you.
 
Oct 7, 2013
350
0
neuroanatomist said:
douglaurent said:
The evidence of 20+ precious features that only competitors of Canon do offer in their camera, and the knowledge that many photographers are not stupid enough to oversee these facts.
I guess it's a good thing for Canon that even more photographers are not stupid enough to sacrifice basics like reliability, usability and customer support to get those 20+ features that only you seem to think are precious.

EXACTLY! Nobody wants to give up the Canon advantages or leave the Canon brand. This is why Canon should simply add useful and modern features to their existing products. This is what a forum discussion about future Canon camera products is all about.

What is NOT helpful is a signal to Canon from their userbase, essentially telling them "everything is great the way it is, and nobody needs stupid new features, cheaper prices, faster product and firmware updates etc". Blind Canon Fanboyism and defending them will hurt any Canon user sooner or later, or more or less, as long as Canon keeps their path of crippled products, slow innovation and high prices.

It even hurts Sony users. If Canon would always have the same modern features as current Sony cameras, Sony wouldn't be able to charge their high prices. Not addressing the facts is a very bad thing for everyone except for the accountant of those large corporations.
 

Orangutan

EOR R
Sep 25, 2010
2,140
3
douglaurent said:
EXACTLY! Nobody wants to give up the Canon advantages or leave the Canon brand. This is why Canon should simply add useful and modern features to their existing products. This is what a forum discussion about future Canon camera products is all about.
That would add to the price because Canon won't include those features for free.


What is NOT helpful is a signal to Canon from their userbase, essentially telling them "everything is great the way it is, and nobody needs stupid new features, cheaper prices, faster product and firmware updates etc".
Ah, the truth comes out!

What we say on the forums has almost zero effect on the manufacturers -- they do serious market analysis, they don't spend time on forums infested with daydreamers and trolls.

However, in case Canon is listening: I want the 6D MkII to be a FF version of the 80D, and have an initial retail price under $1,000...and it should come with a pony! ;D :p
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,173
1,726
Canada
Orangutan said:
douglaurent said:
EXACTLY! Nobody wants to give up the Canon advantages or leave the Canon brand. This is why Canon should simply add useful and modern features to their existing products. This is what a forum discussion about future Canon camera products is all about.
That would add to the price because Canon won't include those features for free.


What is NOT helpful is a signal to Canon from their userbase, essentially telling them "everything is great the way it is, and nobody needs stupid new features, cheaper prices, faster product and firmware updates etc".
Ah, the truth comes out!

What we say on the forums has almost zero effect on the manufacturers -- they do serious market analysis, they don't spend time on forums infested with daydreamers and trolls.

However, in case Canon is listening: I want the 6D MkII to be a FF version of the 80D, and have an initial retail price under $1,000...and it should come with a pony! ;D :p
I want mine to come with a unicorn........
 

Orangutan

EOR R
Sep 25, 2010
2,140
3
Don Haines said:
Orangutan said:
douglaurent said:
EXACTLY! Nobody wants to give up the Canon advantages or leave the Canon brand. This is why Canon should simply add useful and modern features to their existing products. This is what a forum discussion about future Canon camera products is all about.
That would add to the price because Canon won't include those features for free.


What is NOT helpful is a signal to Canon from their userbase, essentially telling them "everything is great the way it is, and nobody needs stupid new features, cheaper prices, faster product and firmware updates etc".
Ah, the truth comes out!

What we say on the forums has almost zero effect on the manufacturers -- they do serious market analysis, they don't spend time on forums infested with daydreamers and trolls.

However, in case Canon is listening: I want the 6D MkII to be a FF version of the 80D, and have an initial retail price under $1,000...and it should come with a pony! ;D :p
I want mine to come with a unicorn........
I almost wrote that, but thought it might be considered sarcastic. :)
 

BillB

EOS 6D MK II
May 11, 2017
1,153
390

[/quote]

What is NOT helpful is a signal to Canon from their userbase, essentially telling them "everything is great the way it is, and nobody needs stupid new features, cheaper prices, faster product and firmware updates etc". Blind Canon Fanboyism and defending them will hurt any Canon user sooner or later, or more or less, as long as Canon keeps their path of crippled products, slow innovation and high prices.

[/quote]

But Canon doesn't want me to be happy with the way things are. To get me to buy a another Canon camera the new one will need to do something important to me that the one I have can't do. I am not a renter, I own Canon equipment, and I am in fact pretty happy with it, and the lenses that I have as well. In an important sense, Canon, Sony and everybody else is competing against their own past, rather than with each other. That seems to be especially true for Canon.

Stupid is your word. For me, your list has a lot of features that would not lead me to spend the money to replace the camera that I have. The question for me is not what new camera I am going to rent next week, the question is whether to stick with what I have. If I stand pat, the loser is Canon, and my guess is that they are smart enough to figure that out without my throwing a hissy fit on Canon Rumors.
 

Mikehit

EOS 5D MK IV
Jul 28, 2015
3,227
416
douglaurent said:
I have approx 50 cameras and 300 lenses, which is why I know what I'm talking about. What do you own exactly?

It seems you will be really angry about Canon when they start to release mirrorless cameras in 2018, and starting to implement my stupid little whiny points. Sad for you that Canon turns into a mirrorless loser company like Sony in the coming years. Then you can only remember the great times between 2008 and 2018, when Canon DSLRs had hardly any significant improvements between each model.
I feel sorry for you. You are so wrapped up in stating what you want in a camera that you are totally, absolutely and pathologically unable to understand what we are saying.

No-one (let me repeat that so you understand) NO-ONE is saying Canon should not incorporate the 20+ points you mentioned. No-ONE has said they would not find them useful. In fact, everyone agrees Canon will release FF mirrorless cameras. Where people are arguing against you is your insistence that Canon have to do it immediately and that if they do not, Canon are heading for the scrapheap.

Incidentally, the functions you mention arise out of the techology - they are installed because the technololgy make it possible. The camera is not designed to deliver them.
 

Mikehit

EOS 5D MK IV
Jul 28, 2015
3,227
416
douglaurent said:
Mikehit said:
unfocused said:
rrcphoto said:
...and I really doubt you have all these cameras, and as you say - use them every day. frankly I doubt you have anything other than a freaking Fischer price camera that you play with in your mom's basement.
In a previous thread, he indicated that he owns/runs a rental business. I find that plausible. But, that would also help explain the obsessive fascination with "features." Photographers who use a camera day in and day out and rely on it to put food on the table tend to be less enamored of new features. Instead, most want a reliable tool that they are familiar with and produces predictable and repeatable results. A rental shop owner needs to provide the latest toys and tools for people to try out and to use for specialized purposes. The mistake Mr. Laurent seems to be making is thinking that his experience and preferences can be extended to a majority or even a sizable minority of photographers.
Then again, someone who runs a rental business and claims to have every camera available to them would know the sort of thing the general consumer wants and how it fits into the general market.
Douglaurent seems to be ignorant of both.
Not really. A few years ago you could have satisfied people with 100% Canon branded products. Today Canon requests are 25% and the rest is Sony, Panasonic, Sigma etc. If you don't see this shift, good luck for you.
When you say 'Canon requests are 25%....' - 25% of what?
Who is making those requests to whom?
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,617
2,088
douglaurent said:
I have approx 50 cameras and 300 lenses, which is why I know what I'm talking about.
LOL. Is your penis bigger than his, too?

Incidentally, Canon, Nikon and Sony own inventories of thousands of cameras and lenses. All the latest models. I guess they know so much more than you, it makes you look like an idiot by comparison.


douglaurent said:
Now THESE are really things that the whole world is waiting and asking for! Congrats! Much more important than seeing the actual exposure in the viewfinder or a dedicated ISO wheel!
You're so right. Seeing the actual exposure is what everyone needs. Who cares if it's a few milliseconds behind the real world. Who cares if it's not the actual exposure because an EVF is showing an 8-bit jpg'd version of the world and I'm capturing a RAW image. Everyone needs a dedicated ISO wheel, too. Two wheels aren't enough for anyone. Three aren't enough either. We all need a fourth dedicated wheel for FEC, and a fifth dedicated wheel for setting a bracketing sequence, and a sixth dedicated wheel for adjusting WB, and a seventh dedicated wheel for zooming in while viewing through the EVF, and an eighth dedicated wheel for picking the AF mode.

When the A10 comes out with 8 dedicated wheels, Canon is doomed.