Canon High End Mirrorless Camera Talk [CR2]

[Woody]

well, looking at bhphotovideo and amazon.. they don't appear to be flying off the shelves there. the only ones that seem to be flying off the shelves is the 5D Mark IV.

According to CIPA, ratio of DSLR to MILC shipment:

2015 Jan-May = 3.42:1 (2015 Jan-Dec = 2.90:1)
2016 Jan-May = 3.02:1 (2016 Jan-Dec = 2.67:1)
2017 Jan-May = 1.76:1

 

[scyrene]

Introduced Q4 of 2018? Kiss it goodbye Canon, Sony will be way too far out front to catch. Been a Canon user for 40 years. I went to a Sony a9 demo this weekend. It's the real deal. When they add some serious long glass, the tide will turn. Sony is playing it really smart too, marketing to Canon users. The rep had a metabones adaptor for EF glass and passed it around with a 24-70 mounted. "Buy our bodies now and convert glass to native Sony as you can" is the feeling I got. 2019? Too late. The sidelines will still be white lenses, but with Sony on them. And for those who don't shoot sports or nature, Fuji is positioned well right now too.

LOL

 

[scyrene]

Adding some fuel to this NEW CAMERA rumour fire, I am adding my juicy tidbit
from an update of one of my previous posts where I alluded to a VERY HIGH END medium format Canon camera using a 1Dx Mark 2 body style with possibly a 65mm/70mm-type medium format sensor.

See original post:

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=32297.0

I also alluded to a grainy Skype video seen that seemed to correlate to just such a system.

Now the interesting thing is that I have SEEN a much clearer Skype-streamed copy of that video from Germany containing a now much more obvious large medium format unmistakeably Canon Camera design that was definitely used on a football pitch (i.e. soccer field for you Americans) in Munich, Germany (i.e. Olympiapark sports complex)

I also have a better ability to make a direct comparison of the actual size and I can say it is twice the size of a 1Dxmk2 and depthwise from front-to-back is about twice the depth of the 1Dxmk2. I can also say the lenses are HUGE and probably very heavy but I think I can live with that since it has been told to me over and over again by my Germany/Netherlands contacts that it shoot 25 fps at 50 megapixels
48 bit colour (16-bits per colour channel!) onto user-specified INTERNAL SSD hard disks OR CFAST cards OR BOTH! It has ALSO been told to me over and over again that it shoots 50 megapixel 25 fps 48bit colour RAW and 4:4:4 Wavelet-based JPEG-2000 images. It HAS the ability to shoot 50/60 fps 4K video sampled from the ENTIRE SENSOR area and NOT cropped. It HAS an articulating OLED touchscreen with a stated resolution of 1920 x 1200 (that's a weird resolution!), a 3.5mm microphone input jack AND a headphone/audio output jack! 10-bit 4:2:2 MP4-style (is it Canon AVC?) video codec will be there at the starting gate along with CLOG 1/2/3 as told to me!

It is obvious to me that the design of the mirrorless camera and it's construction indicates a well-along body and lens design that is nearly production ready. It has again, been iterated over and over again to me that the 56mm by 42mm CMOS Bayer Pattern Global Shutter Sensor resolution is 8192 by 6036 pixels (4:3 aspect ratio) and the individual photosite size is 6.82 microns per pixel with a 14.5 EV at ISO 100 of Dynamic range (that's BETTER than the 1Dx Mk2!). Mid-2018 seems to be an announce date window with a price point being somewhere between 12 000 Euros to 16 000 Euros!

THAT is the information that has been repeated to me over and over again from said tech head/engineering types who seem to KNOW A LOT ABOUT the internal specifications of the camera AND who have shown me a MUCH BETTER COPY of a video that was taken at Olympiapark sports complex in Munich, Germany.

Let the comments rip and tear into this!

But in MY BOOKS --- I saw what I saw and I am pretty sure what I saw was a FULLY WORKING Canon Medium Format STILLS camera!

Even more LOL.

 

[gmrza]

Size and weight are not issues for me

Size and weight are of real importance to me.

Exactly. But which of you is in the majority? I have no idea...I'll just have to wait until Canon releases either a FF MILC with a native EF mount, or a compact FF MILC with an adapter for EF lenses, and then I'll know.

There are however a few interesting challenges for mirrorless bodies, some of which may not be possible to address:

• Beyond a certain focal length - possibly around 200mm - the weight of the body becomes academic as the lenses are so heavy
• If Canon retains the EF mount for a FF mirrorless system, then the flange distance cannot change, meaning the depth of the body cannot change
• With a shorter flange distance, the incident angle of the light reaching the sensor becomes more oblique - something that Canon's sensors don't cope with very well. (This is also an issue with very fast lenses like the 85mm f/1.2.) Canon probably needs to do some work on its sensors to address this first.
• Mirrorless sensors can't focus during the period when the sensor is being read out (yet). This is something DSLRs can do (because the mirror is down), and a key feature for sports and action photographers.

I have no doubt that the days of the reflex mirror are numbered, but there are still some technical challenges which need to be overcome before it can be put into complete retirement.

 

[neuroanatomist]

But in MY BOOKS --- I saw what I saw and I am pretty sure what I saw was a FULLY WORKING Canon Medium Format STILLS camera!

And the evidence you said you'd provide? Yeah.

In MY BOOKS, use of psychoactive agents is a distinct possibility.

 

[neuroanatomist]

2019? Too late. The sidelines will still be white lenses, but with Sony on them. And for those who don't shoot sports or nature, Fuji is positioned well right now too.

You're assuming Sony will still be making MILCs in 2019, and that's far from a given. Can you say 'Samsung MILC'? Can you say 'Sony dSLR'? Not anymore.

Fuji is well positioned to be a boutique, niche ILC brand in the future...just like they are today.

Seems like they're passing out crazy pills like candy.

 

[rrcphoto]

well, looking at bhphotovideo and amazon.. they don't appear to be flying off the shelves there. the only ones that seem to be flying off the shelves is the 5D Mark IV.

According to CIPA, ratio of DSLR to MILC shipment:

2015 Jan-May = 3.42:1 (2015 Jan-Dec = 2.90:1)
2016 Jan-May = 3.02:1 (2016 Jan-Dec = 2.67:1)
2017 Jan-May = 1.76:1

except we were talking the Sony A9.

also .. those CIPA numbers.. they have canon to thank for alot of it.

70% increase in MILC sales over 2Q 2016 with the same amount of ILC's sold.

that means a dramatic change in the CIPA numbers.

 

[HarryFilm]

But in MY BOOKS --- I saw what I saw and I am pretty sure what I saw was a FULLY WORKING Canon Medium Format STILLS camera!

And the evidence you said you'd provide? Yeah.

In MY BOOKS, use of psychoactive agents is a distinct possibility.

Sambuca (Licorice flavour) and Asbach Uralt (Fine German Brandy)
are my two favourite agents of mind-bending alteration....!!!

Now after that, I now confidently say Canon Medium Format (it could
also be viewed as a large format flagship sports/action camera!) is
where the heat is on in terms of the rumour mill in the Canon world

Don't be surprised to see some sort of talk at IBC or soon
after coming from Canon! What is interesting to me is that
after the Canon C700 Cinema EOS Global Shutter option
becoming available, Canon execs did mention something
about global shutter sensors becoming a mainstay in all
their product lines in the not too far future!

Again, large sensor 48-bit colour, 50 megapixel
mirrorless is what Canon will be giving us next year!

YOU CAN TAKE STATEMENT THAT TO THE BANK!

 

[neuroanatomist]

Again, large sensor 48-bit colour, 50 megapixel
mirrorless is what Canon will be giving us next year!

YOU CAN TAKE STATEMENT THAT TO THE BANK!

I could, if I wanted to be poor. I'll pass.

 

[ethanz]

well, looking at bhphotovideo and amazon.. they don't appear to be flying off the shelves there. the only ones that seem to be flying off the shelves is the 5D Mark IV.

Do you have a link so I can see their sales listings of camera? Thanks

 

[ethanz]

Here's proof that Sony is winning and Canon is doomed. A PJ using a sony at the White House. I don't see any Canons there. Pros are throwing out their 1dx2's and buying the Sonys. Sorry Neuro, better get rid of your Canon stuff, because its junk.

: : : : :

 

[Cthulhu]

Here's proof that Sony is winning and Canon is doomed. A PJ using a sony at the White House. I don't see any Canons there. Pros are throwing out their 1dx2's and buying the Sonys. Sorry Neuro, better get rid of your Canon stuff, because its junk.

: : : : :

Humor aside, I figure it's a matter of time until press shifts to quieter cameras for this type of coverage, now that it's available.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Here's proof that Sony is winning and Canon is doomed. A PJ using a sony at the White House. I don't see any Canons there. Pros are throwing out their 1dx2's and buying the Sonys. Sorry Neuro, better get rid of your Canon stuff, because its junk.

I thought you knew...all the good, qualified PJs have been banned from covering this administration's White House. So those poor saps were stuck with what got left behind in the equipment closet.

;D

 

[transpo1]

Surely we can guess at most aspects of the camera : Full Frame, EF lens mount, 4K - probably cropped with unpopular codec, reasonable dynamic range, and perhaps silent shutter with high FPS too and perhaps viewfinder magnification to match Sony.

But, it seems to me there is one feature which is utterly paramount above all else : In Body Stabilization for Still Shots.

This would overnight dramatically improve the low-light performance of all the great non-IS lenses - including the 16-35 f2.8, 24-70 f2.8 II, all the Canon (and Sigma Art series) Primes.

I can't think of anything which would be more likely to convince Canon owners to stick with Canon ... than if all their lenses were upgraded by 3 or 4 stops.

Anyone else agree ?

Totally agree that would be a huge plus. But increased dynamic range and 4K are necessities.

 

[ethanz]

Here's proof that Sony is winning and Canon is doomed. A PJ using a sony at the White House. I don't see any Canons there. Pros are throwing out their 1dx2's and buying the Sonys. Sorry Neuro, better get rid of your Canon stuff, because its junk.

: : : : :

Humor aside, I figure it's a matter of time until press shifts to quieter cameras for this type of coverage, now that it's available.

I was kind of surprised to see someone using a Sony so I knew I had to screenshot it.

 

[privatebydesign]

Here's proof that Sony is winning and Canon is doomed. A PJ using a sony at the White House. I don't see any Canons there. Pros are throwing out their 1dx2's and buying the Sonys. Sorry Neuro, better get rid of your Canon stuff, because its junk.

: : : : :

Humor aside, I figure it's a matter of time until press shifts to quieter cameras for this type of coverage, now that it's available.

Peter Souza, Obama's photographer, who has created some absolutely fantastic images had a brief dalliance with Sony, he used 5D models for years but moved to Sony while using the 5D MkIII's which he used a lot. He dropped Sony after less than a year and went to 5D MkIV's.

 

[H. Jones]

Here's proof that Sony is winning and Canon is doomed. A PJ using a sony at the White House. I don't see any Canons there. Pros are throwing out their 1dx2's and buying the Sonys. Sorry Neuro, better get rid of your Canon stuff, because its junk.

: : : : :

Humor aside, I figure it's a matter of time until press shifts to quieter cameras for this type of coverage, now that it's available.

I don't disagree with this eventually happening, but having covered assignments at the White House, no one is ever all that bothered by the noise other than TV crews, it's just part of life there. It doesn't really matter if your own camera is silent if there's still going to be 15 other D5s or 1DX2s in these scenarios, so that itself is not going to be a driving change in that respect. So far the ones I have talked to are mainly interested in seeing their exposures in the EVF, but I'd say a majority cares much more about battery life than anything else.

 

[H. Jones]

Here's proof that Sony is winning and Canon is doomed. A PJ using a sony at the White House. I don't see any Canons there. Pros are throwing out their 1dx2's and buying the Sonys. Sorry Neuro, better get rid of your Canon stuff, because its junk.

: : : : :

Humor aside, I figure it's a matter of time until press shifts to quieter cameras for this type of coverage, now that it's available.

I was kind of surprised to see someone using a Sony so I knew I had to screenshot it.

I think the Associated Press has been trying it out. AP's Andy Harnik has been using a A9 alongside his 1DX mark II recently, but I'm not sure if that's his personal A9 or if the AP is actually trying it out. Strange to see them mixing Canon and Sony though, so I doubt it's any sign of a real change.

 

[Cthulhu]

Here's proof that Sony is winning and Canon is doomed. A PJ using a sony at the White House. I don't see any Canons there. Pros are throwing out their 1dx2's and buying the Sonys. Sorry Neuro, better get rid of your Canon stuff, because its junk.

: : : : :

Humor aside, I figure it's a matter of time until press shifts to quieter cameras for this type of coverage, now that it's available.

Peter Souza, Obama's photographer, who has created some absolutely fantastic images had a brief dalliance with Sony, he used 5D models for years but moved to Sony while using the 5D MkIII's which he used a lot. He dropped Sony after less than a year and went to 5D MkIV's.

I sort of remember reading about it. The a7 line is horrible as working tools and it's silent electronic shutter is basically a gimmick. The a9 is a different story but I still have serious doubts as to it's durability.

 

[Woody]

You're assuming Sony will still be making MILCs in 2019, and that's far from a given. Can you say 'Samsung MILC'? Can you say 'Sony dSLR'? Not anymore.

Fuji is well positioned to be a boutique, niche ILC brand in the future...just like they are today.

Precisely my sentiments