Canon officially announces the Canon EOS R system
- Thread starter Canon Rumors Guy
- Start date
I think it has to be an LP-E6 for the first one - it makes it a viable secondary camera for current EF users. If I was going to buy this as a second camera for a FF DSLR I would want both units to be as cross compatible as possible. That's certainly something this camera has that competing bodies do not if your primary camera is a Canon product.
Part of me thinks they are holding back on processing power for this camera to make LP-E6 feasible in order to ease the transition for current EF users. I am betting on a different battery for a more advanced model and much longer battery life, and for that to be positioned (and priced) as a primary camera and not a secondary camera.
But I'm with you, I'd be really nervous with the battery life projected if that's all I had with me. I love the 5D IV touch screen, but I keep it off quite often to increase battery life.
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I need IBIS and Focus Peaking, because i also want to use vintage lenses and modern manual lenses, i shoot many times in low and very low light,
shooting mainly B&W, so everything around color performance is a bit secondary for me.
For my main projects i would be happy with a black and white sensor, but give me ISO performance, solid IBIS and focus peaking or anything that enable easy manual focus,
i would be happy even with the oldschool splitsreen viewfinder ... my first steps in photography were on a Yashica FR.
So sadly this camera, and as appears Canon strategy, doesn't cover my specific needs.
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Which challenges would that be? And "currently"? That article was written by a Canon fanboy and most (if not all) points have long since been debunked (did you read the link at the end of the article - https://petapixel.com/2016/04/05/defense-sonys-pro-mirrorless-cameras/)?
I don't understand this continuing bashing of brand X from supporters of brand Y. No brand gets better by insulting or spreading myths. There is no "perfect" camera. Just use the gear that suits you and enjoy it.
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not impossible but if they wait too long it will become an increasingly difficult choice to make: every single one of those R lenses isn't going to mount on the EF bodies. Ok now, but and as the list of updates and "unique" lenses keeps getting longer, it puts people in a tough spot: buy into EF compatibility without adapter but waving good bye to ever mounting an update or unique R lens, OR just suck it up with the adapter like everybody else.
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There is a 1.7x crop in 4k also I would wait for reviews of released cameras in the open before comparing the Canon vs sony vs Nikon, plus the lenses that are missing from Sony and Nikon can be developed + then released..
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1) Because IBIS was an afterthought, the throat diameter is tight for the additional space needed to accommodate the movement of the sensor.
2) Because of the greater incident angle that a small flange distance requires, wide angle lenses are difficult to design.
The article you linked did not debunk any of the above.
I mention Sony because many here have pointed that they are moving to Sony... just a precaution to jump in with your eyes open.
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After all the rumors, the leaked specs, the official release, the videos, white papers, etc. all I can say is...
Meh.
I'm looking for a FF backup to my 5Ds. I held off to see what Canon's new FF MILC would be like. If it had checked certain boxes at $2,300 it would have been an easy preorder. Instead I have no interest. Worse, I find myself wondering if Canon really is screwing up like the shills have been screaming.
When it comes to video the EOS R is dead on arrival. Reading more about it the 4k crop is closer to 1.8x than 1.7x. At that point you might as well shoot a GH5 or BlackMagic PCC. It can't do 4k/60p, it can't do 1080/120p, and it can't do 4:2:2 internal. The ONLY video feature it has going for it is DPAF. That's it.
What about stills? It does deliver the 5D4 sensor at $2,300. That's a good sensor at a good price for someone who wants Canon glass and a USA warranty. But if my backup is for stills only I can gray market another 5Ds or 5Dsr, get considerably better IQ, and save a couple hundred. Or spend a bit more on a gray market 5D4 and get higher fps. What does the EOS R bring to the table? EVFs are inferior to OVFs. I don't need Eye AF. It doesn't have IBIS for adapted glass. What does it offer me on stills? Nothing really. Don't get me wrong, it will be a solid stills camera. So if it had solid video specs it would be an easy buy. But with crippled video there are simply better options.
Right now I'm in a situation where I might as well split my kit between stills and video. Do I get an A73 since I can adapt all my EF lenses and it can serve as yet another stills backup in a pinch? (Even though I hate Sony color science and ergonomics.) Do I get a Fuji XT3 and have a Canon FF stills kit and a lightweight Fuji crop stills/4k video kit? Will Panasonic win me over with their new FF camera? I don't know. But I do know there's a high probability I will be adding non-Canon equipment soon. And that is entirely Canon's fault.
There's no excuse what-so-ever for crippling the video features on the R. I don't want to hear "but the 5D4." You know what would happen if the R blew the 5D4 away on video? 5D4 owners would add the R and keep shooting both, just for different things. And Canon might feel some pressure to bring out a 5D5 sooner. That would be a good thing.
For the record: I love my 5Ds and my L glass. The 5Ds model is now three years old. Go ahead and show up with a brand new D850 or A7R III. Talk about DxO scores all you want. I'll make prints all day long that match or beat them on IQ, from the lowest to the highest ISO. The IQ off that 50mp sensor with Canon's best glass in front of it is jaw dropping. It beats 6x9 film, holds its own against MF digital (in the same resolution class), and can even hold its own against 4x5 except at really huge print sizes. It's phenomenal. Even at high ISO (contrary to many reviews).
And Canon's lens library? Awesome. Best in the business.
So why did they insist on blowing it when it came to their first FF mirrorless?
Meh.
I'm looking for a FF backup to my 5Ds. I held off to see what Canon's new FF MILC would be like. If it had checked certain boxes at $2,300 it would have been an easy preorder. Instead I have no interest. Worse, I find myself wondering if Canon really is screwing up like the shills have been screaming.
When it comes to video the EOS R is dead on arrival. Reading more about it the 4k crop is closer to 1.8x than 1.7x. At that point you might as well shoot a GH5 or BlackMagic PCC. It can't do 4k/60p, it can't do 1080/120p, and it can't do 4:2:2 internal. The ONLY video feature it has going for it is DPAF. That's it.
What about stills? It does deliver the 5D4 sensor at $2,300. That's a good sensor at a good price for someone who wants Canon glass and a USA warranty. But if my backup is for stills only I can gray market another 5Ds or 5Dsr, get considerably better IQ, and save a couple hundred. Or spend a bit more on a gray market 5D4 and get higher fps. What does the EOS R bring to the table? EVFs are inferior to OVFs. I don't need Eye AF. It doesn't have IBIS for adapted glass. What does it offer me on stills? Nothing really. Don't get me wrong, it will be a solid stills camera. So if it had solid video specs it would be an easy buy. But with crippled video there are simply better options.
Right now I'm in a situation where I might as well split my kit between stills and video. Do I get an A73 since I can adapt all my EF lenses and it can serve as yet another stills backup in a pinch? (Even though I hate Sony color science and ergonomics.) Do I get a Fuji XT3 and have a Canon FF stills kit and a lightweight Fuji crop stills/4k video kit? Will Panasonic win me over with their new FF camera? I don't know. But I do know there's a high probability I will be adding non-Canon equipment soon. And that is entirely Canon's fault.
There's no excuse what-so-ever for crippling the video features on the R. I don't want to hear "but the 5D4." You know what would happen if the R blew the 5D4 away on video? 5D4 owners would add the R and keep shooting both, just for different things. And Canon might feel some pressure to bring out a 5D5 sooner. That would be a good thing.
For the record: I love my 5Ds and my L glass. The 5Ds model is now three years old. Go ahead and show up with a brand new D850 or A7R III. Talk about DxO scores all you want. I'll make prints all day long that match or beat them on IQ, from the lowest to the highest ISO. The IQ off that 50mp sensor with Canon's best glass in front of it is jaw dropping. It beats 6x9 film, holds its own against MF digital (in the same resolution class), and can even hold its own against 4x5 except at really huge print sizes. It's phenomenal. Even at high ISO (contrary to many reviews).
And Canon's lens library? Awesome. Best in the business.
So why did they insist on blowing it when it came to their first FF mirrorless?
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Not sure exactly what is "fanboy"-ish about the article. Its science. Smaller diameter mount means it will be harder for Sony to make more advanced lenses for the E-mount when compared to Nikon and Canon. I agree that all three manufacterers have their advantages/disadvantages, and certainly Sony will do what they need to do to offset the limitations of the E-mount, just like Nikon has been doing for years to offset the limitations of the F-mount. But to say that this is a "myth" is like saying climate change isn't real. The mount diameter is designed for APS-C sensors - not full frame, and therefore, the E-mount will suffer long-term constraints, and many years in the future Sony may need to move on to another mount design.
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It can be EF-mount. Then it won't be compatible with these lenses. Or it can be R. Then it will.
The next big (or small) R will have RF mount. The next big (or small) EOS may as well be EF-native, but then it won't be called R.
I think that it is positioned about as the original 5D - 5DII was, and it will be replaced by at least two distinct lines: 6D- and 5D+. At the moment is definitely not positioned as a part of the current 5D line, as 5D4 has faster AF tracking burst speed and a more comfortable grip and button layout, and 5DS [R] has better resolution. It is even possible that the next 5D5 will be a DSLR, while the 5D+ mirrorless will be a replacement for the 5DS.
We are also going to see a 1D-class R camera in the future, but it may take more than 2 years from here.
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Completely agree. This intentionally crippling approach by Canon needs to stop, and we have to stop being Canon apologists, otherwise Canon will simply continue this practice infinitely. As I've said before, I have never seen a consumer electronics company who intentionally gives customers "less is more" - i.e. the "subtractive" approach, by subtracting rather than adding. A Cinema EOS camera is absolutely in a different market than a DSLR/ILC, full stop. Canon needs to wake up and realize this. There is no reason why the crop needed to be included other than to subtract features to save another market. Just like there is no reason NOT to add C-log into the 1DX Mark II (yet THIS camera has C-log - can someone please explain that to me?)
I'm in the same boat as you - trying to figure out whether to divide and conquer with one video and one stills device. But my heart is still on having a single device that can do it all. I had high hopes that this release would have been the rebirth of the 5D Mark II - the last truly amazing hybrid device, and IMO the last time Canon applied more of an "additive" strategy (i.e. add more features, rather than subtracting, in order to differentiate the market lines)
I still want to wait it out, as I think Canon did get something substantial right with this camera - the UX. I think the UX is going to be unparalleled, and that coupled with the high-quality lenses will make the R system a worthy upgrade. We just need the right R body to upgrade too. Canon - you listening?
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I think the suggestion that Canon may revert back an EF is a dangerous path at best - it risks alienating anyone who buys into RF. This is one area where I think Nikon truly got it right, as they seem very invested in the Z-mount and have made it clear that the Z-mount represents their future.
I do believe there is still room for an EF-X - the hybrid EF / RF system that has been mentioned many times on these boards. Especially when I see the back end of each RF lens there appears to be a protruding silver-colored material that looks like it was designed for such a hybrid system.
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Except that there is no "revert back". Canon is not rushing headlong into RF, it still develops new EF lenses.
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There is one : this is the best Canon can technically produce at a reasonable cost now. The crop is caused by the 5DIV's sensor (comparatively) slow readout speed : if the whole sensor was read, rolling shutter, which is already excessive, would be even worse.
From what I understand sensor production needs very long lead times between decision and actual execution, and significant investments that have to provide a return on investment in a few years only. This could explain why Canon has been lagging behind for a while : they may have given priority to investments that to them make more sense, even if it means trade-offs in certain production capabilities. These days Canon gives you DPAF, which no one else has. But they also can't give you fast readout speeds.
Given the R's use of the 5DIV sensor, and its launch price tag, I wouldn't expect much progress in that area for a while. This is where it's at, and probably for longer than what some people may like.
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You can be sure that it is the same as of 5D4.
Maybe slightly better denoising in in-camera JPEGs.
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