Canon officially announces the development of the EOS-1D X Mark III

ethanz

1DX II
Apr 12, 2016
1,115
390
ethanzentz.com
Those examples are not demonstrating oil spots on the sensor. Clarity and dehaze work by creating structure based on minute variations in the raw file. If you take an input, like a small oil spot in an otherwise clear blue field, and apply a massive amount of structure to it then of course it will look terrible. My standard setting for clarity is -10.

100% Clarity and 100% Dehaze aren't allowing you to see the problem. They are creating the problem. What you see in those example are pixels created by camera raw and is not an indication of how much oil is on the sensor.

I'm sure there are instances where oil splatter causes problems. But if you are waiting for a perfect camera to come along you might be waiting a while. Complex systems have complex problems.
I've attached a picture from my aforementioned recent trip. It was taken three weeks after a CMS cleaning. I had not taken that many frames since the CMS. The picture is f6.3 and is un-edited. I think it just shows that it is easy for the sensor to get dirty from oil even after a cleaning.
 

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Nelu

5D Mark IV, 1Dx, EOS R
Personally I didn't like the 1Dx II update, not many differences. But I think canon did a good job with 5D IV.
Let's hope that 5D V (or it's mirrorless replacement) will be also a good camera.
Same thoughts here but do you remember how much bitching around the poor 5D Mark IV had?
I postponed the purchase for more than one year, just because of that and I was sorry; it is a great camera, the best I've ever had!
 

R1-7D

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 25, 2012
717
35
Canada
Those examples are not demonstrating oil spots on the sensor. Clarity and dehaze work by creating structure based on minute variations in the raw file. If you take an input, like a small oil spot in an otherwise clear blue field, and apply a massive amount of structure to it then of course it will look terrible. My standard setting for clarity is -10.

100% Clarity and 100% Dehaze aren't allowing you to see the problem. They are creating the problem. What you see in those example are pixels created by camera raw and is not an indication of how much oil is on the sensor.

I'm sure there are instances where oil splatter causes problems. But if you are waiting for a perfect camera to come along you might be waiting a while. Complex systems have complex problems.

This has to be one of the most willfully blind and in-denial posts I've ever seen. Yeah righttttttt...so those spots then...then aren't oil; they're just artifacts from dehaze turned up too high... :rolleyes:

Apparently, then, by your logic, the 1DX Mark II has an artifact problem since NO OTHER CAMERA DOES THIS!

Ironic that your name has "artifacts" in it. Apparently that's all you see.
 
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Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,492
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Alberta, Canada
Ethan, that's a good example of a bad example and not fun to correct. I think my style/type of photo tends not to accentuate oil spatter but now I won't be able to relax for fear one of those dreaded spots is going to show. In your case I'd be pressing Canon, and maybe you have and they are not budging??

I think a simple unedited photo makes for a better case.

Jack
 

Graphic.Artifacts

EOS 7D MK II
Aug 1, 2017
550
395
This has to be one of the most willfully blind and in-denial posts I've ever seen. Yeah righttttttt...so those spots then...then aren't oil; they're just artifacts from dehaze turned up too high... :rolleyes:

Apparently, then, by your logic, the 1DX Mark II has an artifact problem since NO OTHER CAMERA DOES THIS!

Ironic that your name has "artifacts" in it. Apparently that's all you see.
If you want to talk about the actual problem post an original unedited file that demonstrates it. As it is you have only posted files from an unknown source that grossly exagerates (i.e. willfully misrepresents) the extent of problem. I'm going out of my my way to try and be polite and give you the benefit of the doubt but you are making it difficult. Some people are only happy when they have big dramatic issue even if they have to imagine one.
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
8,409
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...... since NO OTHER CAMERA DOES THIS!
Er, that's not true.

This is an image from my EOS-M in Lightroom with Visualize Spots turned on at a very mild setting. This is after 216 images from new.
Screen Shot 2019-10-29 at 12.53.24 PM.png



To be sure I am not saying your 1DX MkII doesn't have a problem, but I am saying mine doesn't so it isn't a camera wide issue, therefore saying things like 'the 1DX MkII is bad' is incorrect, you can only say 'my 1DX MkII is bad, or here are images from one that is bad (but I don't know what they actually did to illustrate how bad'. Further, I post images equally bad from different cameras to disprove the statement "NO OTHER CAMERA DOES THIS!" as it simply isn't true.

See also:
 
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R1-7D

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 25, 2012
717
35
Canada
If you want to talk about the actual problem post an original unedited file that demonstrates it. As it is you have only posted files from an unknown source that grossly exagerates (i.e. willfully misrepresents) the extent of problem. I'm going out of my my way to try and be polite and give you the benefit of the doubt but you are making it difficult. Some people are only happy when they have big dramatic issue even if they have to imagine one.
Why waste my time? You've already confirmed they're artifacts!

Some people are only happy when they're in in-denial.

Look, as I've said before...the 1D series are an awesome line. I've kept mine and work around the issue. But it's an issue nonetheless. I'm not about to switch brands or anything, but I'm also not about to let Canon off the hook for missteps either.
 
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ethanz

1DX II
Apr 12, 2016
1,115
390
ethanzentz.com
Ethan, that's a good example of a bad example and not fun to correct. I think my style/type of photo tends not to accentuate oil spatter but now I won't be able to relax for fear one of those dreaded spots is going to show. In your case I'd be pressing Canon, and maybe you have and they are not budging??

I think a simple unedited photo makes for a better case.

Jack
I sent it back to them after my trip for another CMS and it is fine now. They either didn't clean it well or put too much oil on the mirror? lol I'm dreading editing all these trip pictures because of it. My CMS cleans are free, so it's not like they could give me anything.

Don't live in fear of it Jack, just keep shooting. I use my mirror a lot, especially for lots of bursts for sports.
 
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Quarkcharmed

EOS 5DMkIV
Feb 14, 2018
889
720
Australia
www.michaelborisenko.com
Those examples are not demonstrating oil spots on the sensor. Clarity and dehaze work by creating structure based on minute variations in the raw file. If you take an input, like a small oil spot in an otherwise clear blue field, and apply a massive amount of structure to it then of course it will look terrible. My standard setting for clarity is -10.

100% Clarity and 100% Dehaze aren't allowing you to see the problem. They are creating the problem. What you see in those example are pixels created by camera raw and is not an indication of how much oil is on the sensor.
From my experience, +100 dehaze does allow to see the dust spots and dirt marks on the sensor. Clarity has a similar effect but I use dehaze as it's stronger. The proof is very simple, I take test shots before and after sensor cleaning and dehaze shows much less or no spots after a proper cleaning.
If you have -10 clarity by default, you're actually hiding the problem.
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,492
1,721
Alberta, Canada
OK here is my sample since it's been implied that I'm a denier. I don't deny reality and when my shortcomings are pointed out I take them like an adult. I virtually never shoot these kind of shots but looked back for this one, taken at about 40k - I'm now at around 55k. It was underexposed so I've brightened it about 2/3 stop,
Sample_39109.JPG
otherwise it's just my usual full size 16:9. Should I be losing sleep over oil spots?

Jack
 

R1-7D

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 25, 2012
717
35
Canada
Er, that's not true.

This is an image from my EOS-M in Lightroom with Visualize Spots turned on at a very mild setting. This is after 216 images from new.
View attachment 187297


To be sure I am not saying your 1DX MkII doesn't have a problem, but I am saying mine doesn't so it isn't a camera wide issue, therefore saying things like 'the 1DX MkII is bad' is incorrect, you can only say 'my 1DX MkII is bad, or here are images from one that is bad (but I don't know what they actually did to illustrate how bad'. Further, I post images equally bad from different cameras to disprove the statement "NO OTHER CAMERA DOES THIS!" as it simply isn't true.

See also:

Fair enough. Perhaps, my "NO OTHER CAMERA DOES THIS" comment was overly broad. I'll grant you that. Ironically, the D600 links you posted showed that model's problem in exactly the same way as in the images I posted -- by turning up the dehaze or clarity, or by going to black and white. The main difference between the D600 and its splatter problem and the 1DX Mark II's is that the D600 was recalled and eventually replaced.

From my experience, and from working with Canon USA and Canon Canada to diagnose the problem, this splatter issue happens far more to the 1DX Mark II than to any of their other products. Canon USA and Canon Canada admitted to me that they saw "something" but would never go as far as to confirm what was causing the problem.

Your M is a mess. I'll check my original M when I get home, but I doubt it's that bad. What I can say, however, is that every single 1DX Mark II I've tried has the issue. Every single one -- this includes the loaners Canon send me when I send my own in for cleaning several times a year, as well as show room models from Vistek and The Camera Store.

The collection of files I have from over 40 different 1DX Mark II's speak for themselves.


At the end of the day, though, like you and others have said...if the problem doesn't bother or affect you, then don't worry about it. I argue that the oil splatter should still not occur with the frequency that it does, and that it's a flaw. But, to each their own. I've still kept my 1DX and 1DX2; I work around it, knowing that it's a problem. However for me, going forward, I won't make another large purchase where I have to worry about such things. I'll look at other offerings from Canon as they come out and see if they meet my needs.

What gets me is the denial that there's not an issue. It's a camera, all of them have flaws in one way or another. The 1DX Mark II's just happens to be oil splatter. There's no point in being tribal about this (not saying you are PBD -- just saying in general for those claiming it's not a flaw).
 

Graphic.Artifacts

EOS 7D MK II
Aug 1, 2017
550
395
Looks fine to me Jack. I used an Original 5D as my primary for 7 years and the sensor on that thing must have been made of velcro. It would have taken an hour to clean the spots of a blue sky image like that one. And we didn't even have dehaze or clarity back then. ;)
 

Graphic.Artifacts

EOS 7D MK II
Aug 1, 2017
550
395
From my experience, +100 dehaze does allow to see the dust spots and dirt marks on the sensor. Clarity has a similar effect but I use dehaze as it's stronger. The proof is very simple, I take test shots before and after sensor cleaning and dehaze shows much less or no spots after a proper cleaning.
If you have -10 clarity by default, you're actually hiding the problem.
IMO there is a difference between using dehaze to check for dirt on your sensor and posting max dehaze/clarity images on line to say all 1DX2's have an oil problem. I took a look at Ethanz's image and it's obvious that he's got an issue which he has every right to be unhappy about. I don't see anything that couldn't be corrected but obviously that's certainly not the best use of anyone's time.

BTW. I like negative clarity as I think it improves tonality in the middle values. I make up for the reduced apparent sharpness using other methods.
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
8,409
1,897
120
Fair enough. Perhaps, my "NO OTHER CAMERA DOES THIS" comment was overly broad. I'll grant you that. Ironically, the D600 links you posted showed that model's problem in exactly the same way as in the images I posted -- by turning up the dehaze or clarity, or by going to black and white. The main difference between the D600 and its splatter problem and the 1DX Mark II's is that the D600 was recalled and eventually replaced.

From my experience, and from working with Canon USA and Canon Canada to diagnose the problem, this splatter issue happens far more to the 1DX Mark II than to any of their other products. Canon USA and Canon Canada admitted to me that they saw "something" but would never go as far as to confirm what was causing the problem.

Your M is a mess. I'll check my original M when I get home, but I doubt it's that bad. What I can say, however, is that every single 1DX Mark II I've tried has the issue. Every single one -- this includes the loaners Canon send me when I send my own in for cleaning several times a year, as well as show room models from Vistek and The Camera Store.

The collection of files I have from over 40 different 1DX Mark II's speak for themselves.


At the end of the day, though, like you and others have said...if the problem doesn't bother or affect you, then don't worry about it. I argue that the oil splatter should still not occur with the frequency that it does, and that it's a flaw. But, to each their own. I've still kept my 1DX and 1DX2; I work around it, knowing that it's a problem. However for me, going forward, I won't make another large purchase where I have to worry about such things. I'll look at other offerings from Canon as they come out and see if they meet my needs.

What gets me is the denial that there's not an issue. It's a camera, all of them have flaws in one way or another. The 1DX Mark II's just happens to be oil splatter. There's no point in being tribal about this (not saying you are PBD -- just saying in general for those claiming it's not a flaw).
The point with the D600 is that Nikon refused to acknowledge it had an issue until they were banned from selling the camera in China! They didn't accept the issue, which was very bad on a large proportion of the camera run, until they were legally forced to.

In my experience the 1Ds MkIII (I had 2) was much worse than the 1DX MkII but there were factory recalls on both the 1D MkIII and the 1Ds MkIII for oil splatter, I can clean my own sensor so never sent them in for that specific recall.

My M might look a mess, but in real world use I never saw anything worth bothering with.

I have 2 1DX MkII's, I have two friends who have one each so I have a very small sample size, but of those four none have any kind of oil or dust 'issue', certainly nothing more or less than other bodies irregular use.

And again, I'm not saying your camera doesn't have a problem or that it should be ignored, all I have tried to say is it isn't all 1DX MkII's and while it is no comfort to people who do own one with a problem other camera models have proven to be much worse.
 
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dcm

Good or bad - it's not the gear.
Apr 18, 2013
796
135
DCM, really nice sequence. It's really great to see the species make a major comeback. The Bald Eagle had disappeared from Southern Ontario (and many other places) due largely to DDT.
There is a breeding pair on the Grand River, that I have been photographing for the last 5 years. Photographing Bald Eagles, as with all birds, come with unique challenges. Over the years, I have learned about their natural behaviour which makes it easier to predict their actions.
I have the 1DX and the 1DX2, but like you, I will wait to see what the III has to offer.
Thanks. I am fortunate to live in northern Colorado and vacation in northern Idaho where there seem to be year-round bald eagle populations. There is an annual winter eagle watch in northern Idaho where I vacation in the summer (previous photos). One year I have to visit in the winter.

There is a smaller population around the nearby reservoirs here in Colorado in the winter. My first eagle photos and BIF were shot locally with a 6D and a first generation Tamron 150-600. It was interesting to see bald eagles in an urban habitat.

Much better results perched than in flight. It was hard to maintain the AF center point on target and the 6D/Tamron combo struggled to keep up when I did. Less than 10% keepers my first time out between AF and exposure challenges with late day sun - lots of noise.

This is what prompted me to get the 1DXII and 100-400L II a year later. It was well worth the upgrade. I almost waited for the 5DIV but I'm glad I went for the 1DXII - no second guessing if I made the wrong choice. More interesting than the III to me is the next high megapixel body. I think that may afford more capabilities than replacing the 1DXII with a 1DXIII.
 

arthurbikemad

EOS 7D MK II
Jul 19, 2015
474
54
UK
Are we talking about oil splatter?

Well, I have good news, the 1DX3 has oil splatter hahaha... it's not funny I know, and mine is minimal (maybe 6-10 or so fairly small spots) compared to my old container ship the Mk2, buts it's there, and there from 100 images. I wont check for it again unless I see it wide open, and even then I'll probably ignore that too.
 
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