Canon officially announces the RF 85mm f/1.2L USM

PureClassA

Canon since age 5. The A1
Aug 15, 2014
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I don't know of a FF sensored ILC or MILC that does 4K video without a crop. Sony's A7R III crops to Super 35 size (1.5 crop factor). There might be a camera from somebody that doesn't crop the 4k on a FF sensor, but I don't have any idea who that would be. Lack of IS wouldn't put me off at all. Gonna look into selling a kidney somewhere. ;)
The Sony Alphas all have a FF readout in 4k. You can choose to crop it Super 35 if you wish. The Alpha 7S goes a step further with a 12MP sensor that also gives a FF readout in 4k but it's pixel for pixel in 16:9 at 8.8MP (FF readout with no binning)
 
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Mort

EOS M50
Jun 28, 2013
25
7
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I'm kind of wondering if this was the initial strategy or if they were planning on making a big splash in the mirrorless world next year, and had developed the lenses already, to a certain extent. Then, a change of heart and an almost rushed introduction of 2 bodies in the mid and low price range just to get their hat in the ring.

That is to say that their initial plan was to come in at the high end, and maybe one mid-range body also around late 2019 or early 2020. But, given the competition building and the popularity of mirrorless, they brought 2 bodies to market quickly, using many available parts from the DSLR line and maybe also the M series when applicable. That would explain why the RP in particular came out with no corresponding low-priced kit lens.
Do you think that Canon internal could see the R and RP as sort of a throwaway bodies? One that can be purchased at a relative low cost and allow people to start using the glass? I doubt it, especially for the R, but it is an interesting thought.

Honestly, the R was almost there. A better processor to overcome the video limitations, staying with tried and true ergonomics, and even without IBIS, I think it would have been more well received.
 

Cee Log

I'm New Here
Feb 13, 2019
14
8
Ahhhh... correct on the Sony. Except that in Super 35 crop mode the image is cleaner than in full sensor mode according to Mirrorless Comparisons .com

"The A7r III gives you the option to choose between full frame mode (the entire sensor is used) and Super35/APS-C mode. The latter crops the sensor by approximately 1.5x which alters the field of view of your lens but gives you better quality (full pixel readout) and the difference is especially visible at high ISOs. "Sony claims that the performance at mid and high sensitivities has been improved in full frame mode on the mark III model but don’t expect the same clean image as when shot in Super35."

I don't shoot video. However, what good is full sensor 4K if it isn't as good as Super 35? Even Sony admits Super 35 is better on their camera. Don't most broadcast cams use Super 35? Think I read that somewhere.

According to someone at dpreview:

"You don’t lose resolution with the A7R3 when shooting 4K crop.
in fact, you gain resolution because the data readout from the full frame sensor is immense and the camera has to drop resolution by pixel binning to keep up. Crop mode has no such limitation and retains full resolution 4K video."


Again, even if the A7R III uses the full sensor, Super 35 is better quality according to Sony. I wouldn't personally know either way. Then again, if the camera is "dropping resolution" through pixel binning, is it even really 4k anymore? Strictly speaking, I think not. I'd imagine Nikon, etc. do the same thing.

I can hear the howls already if Canon were to provide full sensor 4k, but their own crop factor mode provided better quality. Why almost nobody who comes here pushing Sony (not saying you are) never mentions what Sony itself says about it is strange to me.

So to me, it probably is not a matter of Canon not being able to provide it, but rather, Canon not being willing to do it if the resolution is better in crop. I personally find that more ethical than the others.
A7R3 is a high MP stills oriented camera as is the Z7. Those are the only 2 FF mirrorless models that do pixel binning in FF modes.

All the other camera models I've listed that happen to be more direct competitors to EOS R can do FF 4K with not only full readout but supersampled from 6K and with much lower rolling shutter.

Also 1.8x crop is closer to M43 than Super 35. This is very annoying as even EF-S lenses end up having non-standard focal lengths.

I am sorry to say that 4K on EOS R is simply by far the worst of the bunch any way you look at it.
 

CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D SR
Jan 28, 2015
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$2699 is a high starting price. Higher than I would have expected. Very out of line with the RP price.
I fail to see the required relationship between body and lens prices. Of course the price isn't near the RP body price. But what does that have to do with it?

BTW: Both the R and RP are high end for the vast majority of people... no matter the lens.
 

PureClassA

Canon since age 5. The A1
Aug 15, 2014
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I am sorry to say that 4K on EOS R is simply by far the worst of the bunch any way you look at it.
If you're using C Log 10 bit out to an external like the Atomos Ninja v (my setup) it looks great. One thing you can do to boost sharpness is actually raise the shapness in your profile setting which is in the same menu screen (Characteristics) used to select the 10 bit C Log output. It's default setting is at 0. It can go as high as 7. I have mine set to 4 and there is a very noticeable difference. And at 4, there is still no haloing or artifacts introduced. Give it a shot! There's actually a youtube video on this showing it compared to the Alpha and I think maybe the Fuji.

UPDATED:

found it

 
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slclick

EOS 3
Dec 17, 2013
3,102
625
480 grams heavier than my Tamron 85 (which is like a tank at 700 g.) Hope all you R folks enjoy this bad billy.
 

Foxeslink

EOS M50
Aug 2, 2018
25
44
If you’re expecting a 700€ drop by December, you’re probably also expecting a jolly old fat man in a sleigh pulled by eight caribou to land on your roof, slide down your chimney, and put it into your hands.

Good luck with that. :p
Not in grey market dude :D
RF50mm in grey market is about 1900€
 

CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D SR
Jan 28, 2015
3,947
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Irving, Texas
yea, but the woman you take to Hawaii wont look as good or function the same in 20 years...
Don't know about that. I've been married to the same woman for 37 years. She functions and looks just as good to me now as she did back in 1982 when she was 17. Some things are far better with age and experience. Of course, I got an "L" model. YMMV ;)
 

Tom W

EOS 80D
Sep 5, 2012
198
128
Do you think that Canon internal could see the R and RP as sort of a throwaway bodies? One that can be purchased at a relative low cost and allow people to start using the glass? I doubt it, especially for the R, but it is an interesting thought.

Honestly, the R was almost there. A better processor to overcome the video limitations, staying with tried and true ergonomics, and even without IBIS, I think it would have been more well received.
No, not throwaway, but not high-end either. I think they're right where the 5D4 and 6D2 are in terms of position in the lineup, though I think the R might be a little below the 5D4 in a couple of ways. I like the ruggedness of the Mk IV and it is just a great all-around performer to me.

I have the RP also, and I really like it. It's what I chose to get a taste of the full frame mirrorless, given that I have a number of Canon lenses on hand.
 

CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D SR
Jan 28, 2015
3,947
1,515
Irving, Texas
No, not throwaway, but not high-end either. I think they're right where the 5D4 and 6D2 are in terms of position in the lineup, though I think the R might be a little below the 5D4 in a couple of ways. I like the ruggedness of the Mk IV and it is just a great all-around performer to me.

I have the RP also, and I really like it. It's what I chose to get a taste of the full frame mirrorless, given that I have a number of Canon lenses on hand.
A $90k BMW "M" is high end. So is a $350,000 Bentley. Either of those cameras are high end to most people.
 

Cee Log

I'm New Here
Feb 13, 2019
14
8
If you're using C Log 10 bit out to an external like the Atomos Ninja v (my setup) it looks great. One thing you can do to boost sharpness is actually raise the shapness in your profile setting which is in the same menu screen (Characteristics) used to select the 10 bit C Log output. It's default setting is at 0. It can go as high as 7. I have mine set to 4 and there is a very noticeable difference. And at 4, there is still no haloing or artifacts introduced. Give it a shot! There's actually a youtube video on this showing it compared to the Alpha and I think maybe the Fuji.
Thanks, I was already aware of that tip. Not really a fan of sharpening though, I usually turn it to zero so it's actually fine that it's there already by default.

Supersampling from 6K has other benefits though such as actual detail increase and elimination of moire issues.

But anyways, that has nothing to do with helping the crop factor or rolling shutter which are my main 2 gripes with the 4K.

Other than that, EOS R IQ is great, especially in 10-bit. Not arguing that.

Again, if Canon managed to eliminate the crop factor, I would be much much more inclined to purchase their top RF glass but no way I'm spending $2800 on a 85mm f1.2 that performs as a 153mm F2 in video. I suspect I am not alone on this..
 

bhf3737

---
Sep 9, 2015
447
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www.flickr.com
You are seriously mistaken: Nikon Z6/Z7, Sony A7III/A7RIII/A9 & PanasonicS1/S1R can all do FF 4K without a crop.
Canon are the only ones left that still can't do full sensor 4K read out in 2019.
That is because they are using a 4-year-old (5DIV) sensor, when everyone else is using latest gen Sony/TowerJazz sensors.
Nikon Z6/Z7, Sony A7III/A7RIII/A9 & PanasonicS1/S1R can all do FF 4K without a crop but with line skipping, pixel binning or oversampling.
I think it was meant that producing a good quality video (i.e. good detail, better noise handling, better moire handling, better color reproduction, less artifacts, less aliasing) from full-frame readout using the three existing methods (i.e. line skipping, pixel binning, oversampling) has not been proven to do any better than cropping except that in crop the field of view will be changed. Perhaps electing to use cropping is by choice, like any other three techniques, and not by force.

Anyway, producing good quality video in camera, among other factors, depends on resolution power of the lens, less aberration and less focus shift and according to Canon it seems that this new RF 85mm will be good for it.