Canon Patent: New Rear Screen Concept for DSLRs

[Diko]

I use quite two rear buttons where I have assigned the focus and the other one is used with the top dial to change ISO. I love it because on both occasions I don't need to see, but to feel the button's whereabouts. If I understand correctly the second button would be history.

Don't like it!

 

[BroncosFan]

A really interesting concept.

With the monitor in the up position, you have full access to the rear thumbwheel etc, and you have all the shooting info displayed on the screen, which you can look down at, when the camera is hanging from your neck. This makes the little LCD panel on the top plate obsolete, making space for an improved button / dial layout.

And of course you can switch it into live view or replay mode, as well as use it to dspaly shooting info.

The screen then folds back down and reverses to protect it from damage when the camera is packed.



Brilliant. Innovation, at last.

I don't see how the screen would flip in to protect the touch surface with the hinge being off center like it is.

 

[BroncosFan]

This looks awful! Pleeeeez don't mess up my 7D III with this! Don't mess with one of the only things that has kept me a Canon user over the last few years which are the ergonomics and functionality. A simple tilt out screen, ala D500 is more than fine. If you want to innovate start with the sensor not the body. Or just start using Sony sensors, it's ok, we'll still love you in the morning.

 

[old-pr-pix]

As someone who is both left-handed and left eye dominant I'm having a tough time envisioning how I'd adapt to anything like this. At least as shown it seems to be even more right-hand oriented than today's dSLR. On the other hand, it seems obvious from smartphone sales that people like screens as large as can be held with one hand. Combine that with the engineering knowledge that buttons and dials are more expensive to design, make weather-proof and manufacturer compared to touchscreens and firmware and it becomes obvious that at some point the buttons and dials are likely to be minimized if not eliminated.

 

[Talys]

I kind of hate this.

You have to flip this screen up and out in order to have access to the controls on the back of the camera?

So, for everyone who complains about the supposed fragility of a flip screen, imagine having to have the screen always flipped out in order to have access to the controls on the back of the camera.

I hate it too. This is like having permanent field monitor... or something. The thing on the top looks like it'd just be in the way more than anything, and having all that extra stuff north of the eyepiece just to get to back controls makes no sense.

Anyways, I don't really like flip-up screens anyhow; I think fully articulating is just vastly superior, and I far prefer flip to the side.

As someone who is both left-handed and left eye dominant I'm having a tough time envisioning how I'd adapt to anything like this. At least as shown it seems to be even more right-hand oriented than today's dSLR. On the other hand, it seems obvious from smartphone sales that people like screens as large as can be held with one hand. Combine that with the engineering knowledge that buttons and dials are more expensive to design, make weather-proof and manufacturer compared to touchscreens and firmware and it becomes obvious that at some point the buttons and dials are likely to be minimized if not eliminated.

I'm ok with a model of camera with no buttons and dials on the back to make way for a bigger screen. I mean, I wouldn't buy one, but I get it.

I think it's crazy to hide buttons and dials behind the screen in the back, though

Then again, it's just a patent, not a product. At this point, it's no more than a drawing to ensure that someone else doesn't actually capitalize on this strange idea, though I think Canon should be thankful if someone else does.

+1. with on camera flash attached, how one supposed to flip the screen up and not get the flash in the way?

You need to watch more CSI. Real photographers use macro flashes for everything.

 

[Gnocchi]

I wonder where they may or may not go with this? It would be kind of good if they could some how implement the touch and move focus system (like the m5) onto a dslr with some kind of overlay in the ovf. This would then give you up to 80% coverage of the sensor with dpaf. I imagine they might have some sort of touch and drag aperture wheel set up on that back screen as well. Who knows?

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I think we are talking about apples and oranges.

A touch screen is very useful for reviewing images and for navigating through menus. Much more intuitive and easier than punching buttons.

Buttons, click wheels and joysticks are much more useful when one is shooting through an optical viewfinder. The tactile feedback is important when one can't take their eyes off the subject.


No argument there. I've been using live view and dpaf as much as possible, for most cases its fast enough, but the ovf certain lt gets used, and then, its buttons and the joystick. So far, I use them heavily for products where the lcd is a advantage.

 

[Talys]

I think we are talking about apples and oranges.

A touch screen is very useful for reviewing images and for navigating through menus. Much more intuitive and easier than punching buttons.

Buttons, click wheels and joysticks are much more useful when one is shooting through an optical viewfinder. The tactile feedback is important when one can't take their eyes off the subject.


No argument there. I've been using live view and dpaf as much as possible, for most cases its fast enough, but the ovf certain lt gets used, and then, its buttons and the joystick. So far, I use them heavily for products where the lcd is a advantage.

Exposure settings are handled much better by dials than onscreen, though, even when you're using a liveview shoot. It's painless to quickly and accurately set aperture and shutter using dials, and even to a lesser extent ISO -- way, way faster than tapping all over the screen. Another critical back button for me is AF. I'd be lost without at least those 2 dials and button as physical controls, even on liveview shooting.

I'm also a big fan of the directional pad or dials for navigating config menus. That's just preference, though.

 

[Viggo]

I think we are talking about apples and oranges.

A touch screen is very useful for reviewing images and for navigating through menus. Much more intuitive and easier than punching buttons.

Buttons, click wheels and joysticks are much more useful when one is shooting through an optical viewfinder. The tactile feedback is important when one can't take their eyes off the subject.


No argument there. I've been using live view and dpaf as much as possible, for most cases its fast enough, but the ovf certain lt gets used, and then, its buttons and the joystick. So far, I use them heavily for products where the lcd is a advantage.

Exposure settings are handled much better by dials than onscreen, though, even when you're using a liveview shoot. It's painless to quickly and accurately set aperture and shutter using dials, and even to a lesser extent ISO -- way, way faster than tapping all over the screen. Another critical back button for me is AF. I'd be lost without at least those 2 dials and button as physical controls, even on liveview shooting.

I'm also a big fan of the directional pad or dials for navigating config menus. That's just preference, though.

Exactly, the whole point of a pro body is being able to control everything with the eye to the VF, and have responsive buttons with feedback. And try using touch screen with rain and snow and gloves, no thanks

 

[jolyonralph]

Exposure settings are handled much better by dials than onscreen, though, even when you're using a liveview shoot.

I used to think this was obvious, plain common sense, especially as someone who's been shooting with SLRs for a long time.

But the reality is that when the touch screen controls are done right that actually no, it turns out to be MUCH easier to control these things from the touch screen while doing liveview.

Please forgive the heresy, but it's true.

 

[jolyonralph]

Another advantage of touch screen controls is that they can be done with a much lighter touch than regular controls, which is really critical for things like macro work (although generally I do most of my macro shooting tethered so that doesn't really matter.)

 

[H. Jones]

I can definitely see this as a video centric camera, like a 1DC Mark II on steroids. It seems similar to some of the cinema camera designs Canon has made.

 

[Talys]

Kinda sorta looks like the Samsung Galaxy NX.

That's a 4.77-inch multitouch screen.

Wow. I would never buy a camera that looked like that.

I can definitely see this as a video centric camera, like a 1DC Mark II on steroids. It seems similar to some of the cinema camera designs Canon has made.

I guess that's what leads me to my sentiment... I've never been interested in videos other than occasionally capturing a moment on my cell phone. Anything that I'd spend money on, I want optimized for stills. Of course, I recognize other people might have totally different priorities.

 

[aceflibble]

Obligatory reminder that patents =/= products even in development, let alone products which you'll find on store shelves. Nine times out of ten a patent is just an idea or theory which a company wants to claim before anybody else beats them to a similar concept.

In this instance, this patent covers Canon for using larger screens, hiding controls under a cover, and a new way of manoeuvring a screen or cover; these could all be used together, alone, in any combination, or never used at all.

It's Canon 'bookmarking' some ideas and very unlikely anything more. Though implementing larger touch screens is inevitable—and I do mean inevitable—that's regardless of this particular patent.

 

[Ozarker]

That's not a flip out screen. That's a weather vane.

 

[jolyonralph]

We tend to forget here that we are not the target market. We're the sheep who will buy Canon bodies regardless because we already have our lens investment.

Canon need to get a new generation of photographers wanting to use interchangeable lens cameras. And for those who have grown up using their cellphone (or iPad!) to take photos the tiny screen on the back of most cameras is a serious problem.

Add to this the perceived "complexity" of 'serious' cameras. Dials with cryptic codes (Av/Tv, etc) - remember we live in an age where people don't want to read manuals.

So, like it or not, we're going to go towards, at least at the lower end, we have cameras with large touch screens, with the touch screen assisting with things like defining what areas you want in focus or not (rather than manually setting apertures). Our favourite buttons will go because they're confusing and put people off buying a camera.

Improvements in algorithms and the ability to constantly monitor the image data (with a mirrorless or liveview device) will lead to far more intelligent automatic shooting than we've seen before. Better control of levels, better iso management, using some HDR-type techniques with fast multiple frames to get greater dynamic range or greater depth of field automatically, digital effects such as automatic background removal, etc, etc.

And, we'll inevitably see cameras that are not just wifi but cellular enabled too. Want to post your photo immediately to Instagram directly from your camera? No problem.

So, if you're worried about whether your scroll wheel is going to disappear or not I'm afraid you're really not going to like what's coming next...

Jolyon

(on the positive side I don't think this change will filter down to non-rebel type cameras for many many years)

 

[RobbieHat]

As someone who is both left-handed and left eye dominant I'm having a tough time envisioning how I'd adapt to anything like this. At least as shown it seems to be even more right-hand oriented than today's dSLR. On the other hand, it seems obvious from smartphone sales that people like screens as large as can be held with one hand. Combine that with the engineering knowledge that buttons and dials are more expensive to design, make weather-proof and manufacturer compared to touchscreens and firmware and it becomes obvious that at some point the buttons and dials are likely to be minimized if not eliminated.

I too am left handed and left eye dominate but can see lots of use for this innovation. I shoot a 5DSR today next to a landscape/nightscape photographer that shoots the new Nikon D850. He blows me away in ability to quickly focus, check focus, review images for sharpness, adjust settings and check his FOV with his flip screen with touch enabled controls. It took him about 1000 shots and a few sessions of use before he totally had it mastered.

I wear glasses and am infuriated by the inability to adjust between the view finder, the screen and my vision (with glasses or without). This could solve a lot of problems in that regard. In addition, as someone that is not afraid of technology and innovation and embraces by iPhone 7+ with the larger screen and better resolution I would wholeheartedly embrace this innovation.

Many of the dial/switch dedicated functions could be re-positioned on the camera (to where the existing LCD is today or elsewhere) and there usefulness would be retained. We would all have to get used to new ergonomics but we are doing that all the time today and muscle memory is an amazing thing and can be retrained.

I am hoping for a whole lot of innovation in the 7dIII and 5DSR II or I will seriously look to change systems. I won't be going to Sony but would seriously consider a move to Nikon for my style of shooting. I know I would take a major hit on glass but with all the innovation Sigma is driving and Nikon continuing to refresh many of their older lenses due to high resolution the gap is closing and Canon needs to get their act together on the core sensor capabilities and body ergonomics/innovation or they will lose a lot of shooters like me.

 

[Lenscracker]

I have been with Canon since the original F1N. I have begun to defect a little at a time over the last few years because I am tired of waiting for them to catch up with consumer desires and current technology. It is my opinion that when and if this new screen technology is ever implemented it will have absolutely nothing to do with what the consumer wants. Their line of lenses keep us tied to their line of cameras and they know it. Advances in their camera technology seems to embrace the idea that we will take whatever they decide to give us and we will like it.

 

[FramerMCB]

We tend to forget here that we are not the target market. We're the sheep who will buy Canon bodies regardless because we already have our lens investment.

Canon need to get a new generation of photographers wanting to use interchangeable lens cameras. And for those who have grown up using their cellphone (or iPad!) to take photos the tiny screen on the back of most cameras is a serious problem.

Add to this the perceived "complexity" of 'serious' cameras. Dials with cryptic codes (Av/Tv, etc) - remember we live in an age where people don't want to read manuals.

So, like it or not, we're going to go towards, at least at the lower end, we have cameras with large touch screens, with the touch screen assisting with things like defining what areas you want in focus or not (rather than manually setting apertures). Our favourite buttons will go because they're confusing and put people off buying a camera.

Improvements in algorithms and the ability to constantly monitor the image data (with a mirrorless or liveview device) will lead to far more intelligent automatic shooting than we've seen before. Better control of levels, better iso management, using some HDR-type techniques with fast multiple frames to get greater dynamic range or greater depth of field automatically, digital effects such as automatic background removal, etc, etc.

And, we'll inevitably see cameras that are not just wifi but cellular enabled too. Want to post your photo immediately to Instagram directly from your camera? No problem.

So, if you're worried about whether your scroll wheel is going to disappear or not I'm afraid you're really not going to like what's coming next...

Jolyon

(on the positive side I don't think this change will filter down to non-rebel type cameras for many many years)

I can't wait for the day when we can connect wirelessly directly with our cameras - brain to CPU. So we can just think about what settings we want, what we want to focus on, etc, etc. Oh no, I guess I will still have to touch the thing to aim it...darn it!

 

[FramerMCB]

Improvements in algorithms and the ability to constantly monitor the image data (with a mirrorless or liveview device) will lead to far more intelligent automatic shooting than we've seen before. Better control of levels, better iso management, using some HDR-type techniques with fast multiple frames to get greater dynamic range or greater depth of field automatically, digital effects such as automatic background removal, etc, etc.

And, we'll inevitably see cameras that are not just wifi but cellular enabled too. Want to post your photo immediately to Instagram directly from your camera? No problem.

So, if you're worried about whether your scroll wheel is going to disappear or not I'm afraid you're really not going to like what's coming next...

Jolyon

(on the positive side I don't think this change will filter down to non-rebel type cameras for many many years)

I would like an "HDR" mode that one can enable when the camera is rigid (i.e. tripod mounted or secured in some other way so as to not be moving) that would then take multiple exposures in 1/4 or 1/3-stop increments and you could punch in the exact number of frames wanted - so for a scene with a large DR, like Sunset or Sunrise, you could punch in say 36 frames and the camera would then just whir away with it. Then in POST Processing use an HDR plug-in to combine whichever frames you want to achieve the precise affect...

I know great things can be achieved right now with HDR but this would open up more creativity for the end result(s). Although technically one can do this already in the field in camera it's just a lot more tedious. And most cameras that I'm aware of do not allow 1/4-stop increments - only 1/3.