Canon registers a 32.5mp APS-C DSLR in Taiwan

Del Paso

M3 Singlestroke
Aug 9, 2018
505
464
What is it about the internet that causes people to double down when they ought to just concede they were wrong and move on?

This whole argument is ignorant. If you don't need or want higher megapixels, just save to one of the formats that has less. But, don't dismiss what others need.
Canon, Sony, Nikon, Panasonic etc all do high resolution and low resolution models because there is a demand for both. I am not telling you that you need a high resolution resolution but simply pointing out that there are enough of us who do. It is your biased view that your two cousins bought cameras with too many pixels.
There can even be a demand for a mid- and a high- MP camera in the same bag.
I do need a 30 MP (5 D IV) for most of my pictures, but wish I had a 60+ MP camera for macro. The 2 seemingly contradictory demands exist and sometimes even coexist.
 
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lawny13

EOS M50
Mar 6, 2019
29
40
I know it's off-topic...and I apologize.:oops:
But the decision to stop raising top-speed above 250 k/mh was taken in Europe by Daimler, BMW and Audi mostly because of extremely high development costs, AND because Germany is the only country where you can legally attain these speeds, on less than 1% of the roads!

Back to topic: for me , 30 MP are sufficient, apart from macro photography, where, to get enough depth of field, i shoot at some distance, and then crop!
So, I'm impatiently waiting for the high-MP EOS R, also to fit it with the RF 1,2/85, provided I "find" the money. (gaasp)
A low MP camera vs a high MP camera of the same format... the high MP images can be down sampled to pretty much obtain the same IQ and resolution as the low MP sensor. You can't exactly up sample.

That said... the point is that the biggest issue on high MP is cost, and processing speed/limitations.
Are you saying that down sampling enhances DR and noise performance? Hmmm.....guess pixel size doesn't matter.
Care to look up the DR of the A7III vs the A7R3? The R has significantly more pixels, and though the DR of the former is better the DR drop is marginal. As such the DR of a 32 MP camera vs 24... meh, doubt you would see any meaningful difference.

As for noise. Yes looking at a high MP image of the same format as a lower MP sensor would exhibit more noise simply due to having a higher pixel count. So if that what what you mean than you are right. But down sampling the image is essentially an averaging affect which does decrease noise.

One can easily show a reduction of noise numerically. General 1000 points randomly between 0 and 1 in excel and plot it. Then performing a downsampling is the data down to 200 points. Then plot the data. Report back to us what you see... bet you the later would appear less noisy though with less resolution.

Our perception of DR also involves how noisy the shadow area is of an image. So... if down sample reduces noise at the cost of resolution, it does translate into cleaner looked images which shadows pulled. Of course there is more to it than that, but the song camera only lead by 2/3 to 1 stop DR advantage, but only a small percentage of people pull 5 stops of shadows. 4 is more than adequate and the on board ADC of canon’s sensors produce DR on par with the previous mk2 Sony bodies which was already good.

Rather than DR (go to Sony if that 1 stop at ISO 50 to 125 is important to you) canon has bigger fish to fry. Read out speed and processing speed is currently their bottle neck in terms of innovation. Beyond that there is algorithm development to deal with tracking and stuff like that. It is way more significant for them to get FPS, rolling shutter mitigation, and IBIS with A7R2 type DR performance than focus on DR.
 

bdbender4

EOS M50
Jan 19, 2017
30
16
As always, my question is: where's the update for the M5? Will it use this sensor? If Canon is not going to make any more high-end EOS-M stuff I wish they would come right out and say so. All they say is "the customer will decide". The customers in Japan have decided they like the M50 and that's about it. But that's a chicken-and-egg question about what has the newest features.
 

Joules

EOS RP
Jul 16, 2017
227
144
Hamburg, Germany
As always, my question is: where's the update for the M5? Will it use this sensor? If Canon is not going to make any more high-end EOS-M stuff I wish they would come right out and say so. All they say is "the customer will decide". The customers in Japan have decided they like the M50 and that's about it. But that's a chicken-and-egg question about what has the newest features.
Did you read this "rumor"?


It was the first we saw of this 32 MP APC-C Body and the EOS RP. It also shows that Canon likely has two Mirrorless Cameras with 24MP coming, which are likely the updates to the M6 and M5.

I guess since the 32 MP sensor is used only in one of the DSLR that that camera will be the 80D/7D replacement and it indicates that it won't be a mirror equivalent of the M5 but sit above it.
 
Apr 23, 2019
2
1
As someone who has a 7D and a 7D mark II, and want a newer camera to replace the latter Canon's attitude annoys the hell out of me.

I'm happy to wait for a 7D Mark III to be released - and I'm open minded(ish) about what the specs should be. I can understand why Canon might not want to say much about it before any release either. What I find intolerable is the fact that they won't confirm that there even will be such a camera.

Having purchased 70-200mm f2.8L and 100-400mm Mk2 lenses I'm hesitant to change brands - I consider myself having had half a dozen Canon DSLR bodies to be a loyal customer - but I am starting to vaguely think of jumping from the Canon ship.

All I ask is confirmation that there is going to be a 7D Mark III.....
 
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digigal

Traveling the world one step at a time.
Aug 26, 2014
141
166
You seem to have missed my point, which is the number of posts about sensor resolution is not proportional to the percentage of photographers who actually need more nowadays.
[/QUOTE]
I meet up with about 150 people twice a month to share photographs we've taken either by projected or printed form. Only a few of these people are active professional photographers and but all have high megapixel cameras to allow them to capture and modify their art with as little limitation as possible. Many of them do have shows here in the Bay Area. I don't think any one of them would agree with your premise and I know NONE of the wildlife photographers I know would for the reasons that have already been stated. Most of the landscape photographers I know like the high megapixel cameras for the flexibility of the print size.
Catherine
 

jvillain

EOS T7i
Sep 29, 2018
87
72
I'm curious about what specifically you prefer about the R, since you're somebody who owns and uses both. I just own the 80D, and have only used the R a couple times. So, there's a chance I just wasn't used to it, but I found myself questioning a couple of the ergo decisions on the R. Firstly, the on/off switch and mode dial are a couple of head-scratchers... I'm not really sure why the R sets them up like they did, I think the 80D sets them up much better. The second one is that I missed the wheel around the d-pad, though I guess that had to go due to less real-estate on the back of the camera.

I would step up from APS-C to FF in a heartbeat though, I'm willing to pay the extra weight for my use cases. I very nearly dove in and bought the RP when it was announced, but I think I'll at least need to wait for the 24-70 2.8 to buy into the R ecosystem.
There are some things about my experience that may be different from yours, but here goes. I shoot both stills and video. The main thing I like is that it is almost like two cameras in one because so many of the buttons are reused for multiple purposes. The mode dial is a prime example. At times it is the aperture control some times it is the mode dial. Some times it controls other things. But it is a control that is perfectly placed. When it is the aperture control it is so easy to reach as opposed to the wheel on the 80D which even with my large hands I have always found to be a stretch to get to. Aperture is such a critical setting and is used so often that it needs to be very simple to get to and easy to use.

Speaking of the mode dial the button you have to press and hold on the 80D is a pure killer for me. I had an accident that paralyzed half of my left hand. So in order to operate the mode dial I actually have to put the camera down reach over with my right hand and to press, hold and turn the dial. The R I can simply use with just my right hand with out having to put the camera down. The knurling on both the mode dial and the power switch I find give me better purchase to operate them than the slippery plastic equivelents on the 80D.

3 different custom modes and fully independent between video and stills. That is huge for me.

The AF, drive, iso and exposure area button along the top front on the 80D I always found vague. ISO was OK because it had an indent so I knew where it was easily. The others I had to keep stopping and thinking as I don't use them very often. I find changing ISO on the R far easier as the mode button is by it's self next to the shutter button where my finger already is and once I press it ISO is on the mode dial where my thumb is already. I mostly shoot locked off on a tripod so ISO isn't a big thing any way.

Pretty well any thing you don' like you can remap to better suite your needs.

There a few things where the 80D kicks ass on the R still. The biggest is there are still very few editors that that can deal with the damn CR3 files. Nothing I use can so for now I can't edit RAW from the R. But when I go out to a location I am usually shooting video on the R and stills on the 80D any way. But dang it I want my RAW files. The damn intervolomiter is simple software that canon perfected like half a century ago. I will get banned if a say what I really think of the decision to leave it out. Having said that the movie mode intervalomiter in the R is really quite good, I can do time lapses in 4K and Holy Grail time lapses are ridiculously easy, so that softens the pain a bit.

If you like the feel of the 80D in your hand and I always did then your gonna like the R because it is basically the same body with a few buttons moved.

I should mention any one looking for a large bump in PQ moving from the 80D to the R isn't going to find it with stills but will find it with video.

I'm not one of those guys that says becuase I don't have a need for some thing no one else should be allowed to have it. JL is right when he says "Find the gear that works for you" . The R works for me but that doesn't mean it will for you. Every one has different needs, different work flows. If your not in a rush then take your time and think about it. Maybe the camera listed here is what you will want or maybe one of the other Canons coming up or maybe some thing completely different. Good luck.
 
Last edited:
Jul 12, 2017
111
75
@Antono Refa

This argument against higher resolution sensor saying people don't need it is ridiculous. As long as the increase in mpx does not negatively impact noise or DR (which with recent Canon releases show that it does not) then who cares? Canon offers m or s raws don't they? Or downsample.

I shoot a bit of everything including deep sky and birds where more cropping power the better; especially with the deep sky since I only have an entry level tracker I am limited to certain focal length (and weight) before tracking becomes inconsistent/inaccurate so more resolution can only help. I've been shooting since the good old 500D and I do a lot of high DR scenes (sunrise/sets) and never found DR to be an issue because I learnt how to get around the limitations. Of course the better sensor in my 5D4 makes my life easier nowadays but so would a higher mpx sensor.

I could easily flip the argument and say most people buying cameras these days are mum and dads or newbies buying entry level bodies taking snapshots and would have no need for (or even aware of the need) for better DR or noise so do we stop progress there too? See how easy it is to generalise?
 
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CanonOregon

Having fun with what I have to shoot with now.
Sep 12, 2012
38
0
Oregon
It will probably indicate the MPs of the full frame pro 5R.
FPS will be interesting and focusing system. ISO performance too.
My 7DII is quite worn. I’d be in the market to replace it with something better.
I'm getting there...I know it's only a 'wish' but I do wish that it wasn't true that the MkII will be the last 7d. I'm not ready for the mirrorless lineup!
 
Sep 28, 2018
8
8
i've been waiting for something to come out to replace my 70D...if this has 10fps, and a flip out screen, i'd buy it right away...if it's less than 10fps, than i assume there would be a 7DIII in the works
 

bdbender4

EOS M50
Jan 19, 2017
30
16
Did you read this "rumor"?


It was the first we saw of this 32 MP APC-C Body and the EOS RP. It also shows that Canon likely has two Mirrorless Cameras with 24MP coming, which are likely the updates to the M6 and M5.

I guess since the 32 MP sensor is used only in one of the DSLR that that camera will be the 80D/7D replacement and it indicates that it won't be a mirror equivalent of the M5 but sit above it.
Slight variations on this type of M5 update rumor have been ongoing for something like 18 months now - that would be my (frustrated!) point.

The current M5 has the virtually the same sensor in it as the 80D. So an equally logical supposition would be that the M5 update - if it actually exists - would have the updated 32.5MP sensor.
 

pj1974

EOS 7D MK II
Oct 18, 2011
593
56
Adelaide, Australia
Speaking of the mode dial the button you have to press and hold on the 80D is a pure killer for me. I had an accident that paralyzed half of my left hand. So in order to operate the mode dial I actually have to put the camera down reach over with my right hand and to press, hold and turn the dial. The R I can simply use with just my right hand with out having to put the camera down. The knurling on both the mode dial and the power switch I find give me better purchase to operate them than the slippery plastic equivelents on the 80D.

......................

If you like the feel of the 80D in your hand and I always did then your gonna like the R because it is basically the same body with a few buttons moved.
I have a 80D as my main camera, and I have the M5 as my mirrorless. Most of what you wrote in your (long!) post I agree with, jvillain.
Like you, I really dislike the button on the 80D's mode dial too. Like you, I have a physical issue with my left hand.
I have probably only ever accidentally moved the mode dial on all of my other Canon DSLRs (e.g. 350D, 700D, 7D, etc) twice in hundreds of thousands of photos.

The ergonomics (size, weight, button placement, etc) on the 80D work really well for me (just wish there would have been a joystick like my 7D has).
I use the 80D enough so almost every setting / function I operate using muscle memory.

The M5 has decent ergonomics for its size. I like the dial-func it has. After setting it up as wanted, and practising using it, I found it such a great way of changing fairly frequently accessed functions. I would dial-funcs on more camera bodies.

When I have used the R, it is nowhere near as ergonomics for me as the 80D. The swipe bar absolutely does not work for me.
That, and other reasons, means that the first Canon FF Mirrorless for me, would be a higher model than the R.
The R's back wheel has terrible feedback and feel for how I would like to use it.
 

Cochese

EOS 80D
Oct 22, 2014
101
47
Why would anyone want to print a poster @ 300PPI, and more importantly - how many of such photographers are there?
We're an art gallery and print shop. If you're printing concert quality posters, all files are preferred to be at 300DPI. You can easily get by on small res files, but it's far from ideal. Especially for large prints. I've worked with a guy like you before. Dude is the company's graphic designer, but only saves files in 72DPI. They always want large prints. Storage is cheap as fuck. Why save in anything else?
 
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Jethro

EOS R
Jul 14, 2018
206
92
There a few things where the 80D kicks ass on the R still. The biggest is there are still very few editors that that can deal with the damn CR3 files. Nothing I use can so for now I can't edit RAW from the R.
I know CR3 processing isn't universal yet, but ACR and DxO work fine - although purchasing the EOS R forced me to upgrade my versions :cautious:...
 

ohm

Apr 8, 2019
5
0
There are some things about my experience that may be different from yours, but here goes. I shoot both stills and video. The main thing I like is that it is almost like two cameras in one because so many of the buttons are reused for multiple purposes. The mode dial is a prime example. At times it is the aperture control some times it is the mode dial. Some times it controls other things. But it is a control that is perfectly placed. When it is the aperture control it is so easy to reach as opposed to the wheel on the 80D which even with my large hands I have always found to be a stretch to get to. Aperture is such a critical setting and is used so often that it needs to be very simple to get to and easy to use.

Speaking of the mode dial the button you have to press and hold on the 80D is a pure killer for me. I had an accident that paralyzed half of my left hand. So in order to operate the mode dial I actually have to put the camera down reach over with my right hand and to press, hold and turn the dial. The R I can simply use with just my right hand with out having to put the camera down. The knurling on both the mode dial and the power switch I find give me better purchase to operate them than the slippery plastic equivelents on the 80D.

3 different custom modes and fully independent between video and stills. That is huge for me.

The AF, drive, iso and exposure area button along the top front on the 80D I always found vague. ISO was OK because it had an indent so I knew where it was easily. The others I had to keep stopping and thinking as I don't use them very often. I find changing ISO on the R far easier as the mode button is by it's self next to the shutter button where my finger already is and once I press it ISO is on the mode dial where my thumb is already. I mostly shoot locked off on a tripod so ISO isn't a big thing any way.

Pretty well any thing you don' like you can remap to better suite your needs.

There a few things where the 80D kicks ass on the R still. The biggest is there are still very few editors that that can deal with the damn CR3 files. Nothing I use can so for now I can't edit RAW from the R. But when I go out to a location I am usually shooting video on the R and stills on the 80D any way. But dang it I want my RAW files. The damn intervolomiter is simple software that canon perfected like half a century ago. I will get banned if a say what I really think of the decision to leave it out. Having said that the movie mode intervalomiter in the R is really quite good, I can do time lapses in 4K and Holy Grail time lapses are ridiculously easy, so that softens the pain a bit.

If you like the feel of the 80D in your hand and I always did then your gonna like the R because it is basically the same body with a few buttons moved.

I should mention any one looking for a large bump in PQ moving from the 80D to the R isn't going to find it with stills but will find it with video.

I'm not one of those guys that says becuase I don't have a need for some thing no one else should be allowed to have it. JL is right when he says "Find the gear that works for you" . The R works for me but that doesn't mean it will for you. Every one has different needs, different work flows. If your not in a rush then take your time and think about it. Maybe the camera listed here is what you will want or maybe one of the other Canons coming up or maybe some thing completely different. Good luck.
I also own the 80D, and rented the R for three days. I miss it already. I love its output and performance, but its interfaces (both hardware and software) are much more complicated.

The Mode dial is okay, but there are FAR better ways to implement it. Leica nailed it with the SL, which a simple depress activates, after which, you rotate the dial to get to PASM.

I agree WRT to the aperture dial/ring on the back. That thing is hard to use. I don't find it hard to reach, but the small purchase afforded it against the large central 8-way button is a bugger.

AF/ISO/etc dials: I'm ambiguous about them on both cameras. The 80D is the first dSLR I've picked up that I didn't question anything except where to find exposure preview functionality. The R was complicated in most of its functions and I felt less apt to just pick up and shoot. Obviously this is subjective, but the simplicity of that dSLR in particular, is above reproach.

I really wish Canon would do something more like what Panasonic or Leica did: and keep the design of a classic dSLR (Leica S) and transfer it to a mirrorless. I also rented a 5D MKIV, which I loved, and found it remarkably fast, but its interface was more complicated again. That said, the 5D MKIV was simpler than the EOS R.

I understand the desire to reinvent the wheel, but there are basic layout structures which don't need to be changed to fit a different view technology.
 

HarryFilm

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 6, 2016
445
43
300 ppi is considered the minimum standard in most publications, fine art, etc. You do not need to take my word for it, it is something very easy to confirm with a few searches:

So, you ask how many photographers are there that should be concerned about 300 ppi? At a minimum, anyone that wants to publish. But, really, I would argue, anyone interested in high quality prints. I understand your 115-130 ppi print likely looks good. I have a couple up myself in the 200-250 ppi range. But my prints that are greater than 300 ppi do look better, IMO.

Another way to look at this is if you went someplace to print, they have guides or warnings if your ppi/dpi is too low. The lowest setting is usually around 100 ppi, the "excellent" settings are usually > 300 ppi.
===

In terms of our INTERNAL printing of posters, we usually PRINT at 2400 dpi (individual dots per inch) which is about 600 ppi (i.e. CMYK pixel groupings per inch). Since we usually shoot using a 1dx Mk2 for up to 8x10 inch or a 100 megapixel Hasselblad that works out to about 150 ppi if we scale it to 19x13 inches.

Since we ALSO use a FRACTAL SCALER-based rasterizer on our print jobs, the combination of fractal scaling and error diffusion makes our photos look great even when printed out at 48 inches by 36 inches and larger.

THE KEY ISSUE when printing is NOT the actual dpi of the source camera image but rather the QUALITY of your print rasterizer which SHOULD USE Fractal Scaling and/or Stochastic Error Diffusion.

MOST newer Epson or Canon pro-level printers will have 2400 dpi and ERROR DIFFUSION settings which you should turn ON for best photo quality output!

If you have the TIME, using an external software-based image scaler/rasterizer is best, but modern printers now give you 90% of that sort of quality within the printer of itself using the built-in error diffusion algorithms.

One thing I have noticed, is you MUST USE a colour-matching system (i.e. Datacolor SpyderX Elite is one of the best monitor calibrators!) so that your printout will MATCH what is displayed on your monitor within your image processing and publishing program.

Every morning I colour match my monitors and printers for BOTH video and print uses and save a preset so I can switch between the YCbCr video-centric display modes and print-centric CMYK modes. Since monitors have COLOUR DRIFT over a time period as short as even a few hours, I usually do it in the morning.

Not everyone will need that sort of colour accuracy, but by buying even the cheaper Spyder colour calibrators, your printouts will match your monitors pretty closely!

---

And while the point of high resolution is for allowing more cropping options and better print resolution, it's NOT always necessary since MANY publications are WEB-specific which means for 8.5 inches by 11 inches PDF files, you can get away with a full page portrait resolution as little as 2000 by 1500 pixel or about 180 dpi! That means your camera really needs to be at a minimum of maybe 6 megapixels to give you enough room to do a proper downsample and crop for web-based publishing!

In my opinion, two of the BEST cheaper MILC cameras for doing that sort of web-publishing are the Canon M-50 and the Sony A6500. The quality and resolution are MORE THAN ENOUGH for web and the price is right! If you are JUST doing web photos and maybe smaller 1920 by 1080 embedded videos then the $799 Canon M50 is a good start.

If you're doing BOTH print AND vlogging then the $1600 Sony A6500 is much better for that!

.
 

Antono Refa

EOS 6D MK II
Mar 26, 2014
810
107
"The term occurs so rarely in English that major dictionaries do not agree on the spelling or pronunciation even within a single dialect of English " (Wikipedia, with references to multiple dictionaries and several without mention of it). FWIW, I'm generally the nerdiest nerd in the room and had never come across those. "Unusual" is a fair description, yes.
I speak English as a second language, so the finer points of English spelling are lost on me. Which is why I used the ‰ character, rather than spell it out.

Around here it's taught in elementary school along side percents, after fractions, probably to demonstrate those are just names for "parts per hundred", "parts per thousand", and "parts per ten thousand".