Canon registers a 32.5mp APS-C DSLR in Taiwan

malarcky

EOS M50
Nov 30, 2016
29
13
I haven't read through this entire thread, so excuse me if this has been addressed before, but is the 90D going to have two processors, like the 7dII, or just one, ala the 80D?
 

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,445
2,603
I haven't read through this entire thread, so excuse me if this has been addressed before, but is the 90D going to have two processors, like the 7dII, or just one, ala the 80D?
No one knows, and we don't even know whether there will be a 90D.
 

malarcky

EOS M50
Nov 30, 2016
29
13
No one knows, and we don't even know whether there will be a 90D.
So is it going to be an 8D MkII/7D MkIII/or 90D? If they put the dual processors and the rugged body armor into a body with the flip screen and WiFi, Bluetooth capabilities, that would be the best of the 80D and the 7D MkII, I'm going to be interested in what it actually can do. The 80D is a great APSC camera, as far as I know (I bought one of the first ones). If this camera really does embrace the best of these two Canon "Winners"", then it would be a really hard product to beat, other than the subtleties of the mirrorless technology and newer ML lens technology is concerned. I will be looking at this one for sure.
 

jvillain

EOS T7i
Sep 29, 2018
87
72
So is it going to be an 8D MkII/7D MkIII/or 90D? If they put the dual processors and the rugged body armor into a body with the flip screen and WiFi, Bluetooth capabilities, that would be the best of the 80D and the 7D MkII, I'm going to be interested in what it actually can do. The 80D is a great APSC camera, as far as I know (I bought one of the first ones). If this camera really does embrace the best of these two Canon "Winners"", then it would be a really hard product to beat, other than the subtleties of the mirrorless technology and newer ML lens technology is concerned. I will be looking at this one for sure.
87D?
 
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jvillain

EOS T7i
Sep 29, 2018
87
72
I'm still amused about how many people argue about printing posters when large resolution sensors are discussed.

It's not about printing posters. It's about increasing range through cropping, and allowing downsampling to reduce the problems with bayer filters.

Thank you!
Why can't it be about both?
 
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Mikehit

EOS 5D MK IV
Jul 28, 2015
3,210
395
Why can't it be about both?
well essentially they are the same.
The difference is that a cropped image is meant to be viewed close up. An uncropped image is meant to be observed from further away to be viewed as it is meant to be. So the cropped image is actually more demanding as far as the final use is intended.
 

preppyak

EOS 6D MK II
Oct 18, 2011
984
54
What was nice with the 70 and 80 D were its usefulness for video. I wonder with their supposed replacement here, will we see 4k only with the 1.8x crop or perhaps canon surprises us with this apsc ?
Wouldnt count on it. Canon released the M50, R, RP, and SL3 all with DIGIC 8, all with video crops. It's clearly not a function of sensor size or anything, they just cant (or wont) deliver 4k without crop. This camera will 100% have a crop factor in 4k on top of 1.6x from APS-C. Im not sure how the binning changes from a 24MP sensor to a 32MP sensor, but I'd count on it being similar to the 2.5x crop overall that the SL3 and M50.

Which is insane considering the GH4 managed 2.3x crop in 4k in 2014. Canon has yet to release a camera that matches tech from 5 years ago, let alone the current standards (4k60, 4k no crop full-frame, etc).
 

malarcky

EOS M50
Nov 30, 2016
29
13
"Which is insane considering the GH4 managed 2.3x crop in 4k in 2014. Canon has yet to release a camera that matches tech from 5 years ago, let alone the current standards (4k60, 4k no crop full-frame, etc)."

Just because a camera company offers some specifications that are sounding better than the other companies doesn't mean that they are going to be a reliable standard. Cell phones can take 4k video. That doesn't mean that it can be "Usable" in the standards that the videographers require for "Professional", or even "Amateur" purposes.

I am SO tired of hearing about the 4K tech of yore, that hasn't been implemented into the modern day DSLR's. Just because it's "4K" doesn;t mean a thing, as far as the way the final product will be implemented. Buy a dedicated video camera if you want to use 4K video in your final production. Just don't complain that you can't purchase a DSLR that will compete with a camcorder, or dedicated video camera that is designed for such duty.

@ preppyak Buy a GH4 and go to the Panasonic forums to pat them on the back for the "Awesome" job they did/are doing. We won't miss you pal. :)

This is a Canon forum, and there is nothing that anyone can say that prohibits them from using a Canon product that will create a superior product, as long as you aren't trying to buy a Pinto to do the Cadillac job.
 
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HarryFilm

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 6, 2016
446
43
Got your G7 master cert, homie?
---

I think the parent print facility does in fact have that certification. You are talking about an aerospace company that has systems like THESE:

Xerox® Brenva® HD Production Inkjet Press:


and


And these:


and a few of these:


SO YES! They have ISO-9001/ISO-9002 for ALL the manufacturing facilities and it does look like they have G7 cert for the print facility itself.

I do know the operators in the facility, of them, MANY have Master of Fine Arts (MFA) degrees, and multiple product-specific and industry-specific certifications.

My own diploma is from SAIT (Southern Alberta Institute of Technology) in CTSR (Cinema, Television, Stage and Radio Arts - Video and Graphics Production) so YUP I do have BOTH actual QUALIFIED post-secondary education and LOOONG work-experience (30 years now!) since the late 1980's in both VIDEO and DESKTOP PUBLISHING, plus I have quite the background in low-level Computer Graphics/Video Imaging development with a specialty in High Frame Rate Vision Recognition systems, real-time encryption systems, realtime hardware-level CODEC development AND autonomous drone/UAV flight control systems.

---

SO YEAH! I'm Qualified to Say that 6 megapixels downsampled to 2000 by 1500 pixels is all you really need in order to get away with 11 inch by 8.5 inch web page (or European A4 size!) PDF web publishing and distribution of print material.

For VIDEO, I am also QUALIFIED to state that YES! you can get away with buying a $799 U.S. Canon M50 camera or a $1700 U.S. Sony A6500 setup for your 24 fps 4k and 25/30 fps or higher frame rate 1920 by 1080 pixel vlogging needs!

.
AND one of my friends uses ONLY his iPhone-X for ALL his vlogging and print needs and IMHO, his web and video look pretty good!

I do note that I did teach him about the Nyquist downsampling method where you increase your overall exposure or brightness and shadows by 5% to 15%, increase contrast and saturation by at least 5% or to you personal preference AND then resample ALL still photos and video files DOWN by exactly half on each axis so that 4K resolution video is now 2K resolution video and your 4000 by 3000 pixel photo is now 2000 by 1500 pixels and use an UNSHARP MASK at 1.0, 1.5 or 2.0 pixel radius to enhance all object edges!

Still photos and videos look CRISP and highly detailed for typical 1080p web/youtube distribution, AND when error diffusion is turned ON, colour matching intent is set to Perceptual Colour Mode and print resolution is set at 2400 dpi on his Epson printer, his printed 8x10 photos look bright and PROFESSIONAL!

AND... P.S.

Do remember to spend as much as you can afford on the BEST 50 mm, 85 mm and 135 mm PRIME lenses out there for your camera! F/1.2 to F/1.4 is what you're aiming for in terms of a FAST and SHARP high-quality prime lens!
I personally like the SIGMA Art series as the price and SHARPNESS is right on the mark! YEAH! I probably could take the hit on spending $5000 on a single Zeiss Otus but I will let the parent company spend that sort of money on lenses!

Me personally? I will take the great Bang-for-the-Buck $1100 or less Sigma Art Series lenses!
.
.
 
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Aug 1, 2017
380
222
Just back from a regional migratory bird festival which attracts tens of thousands of wildlife pro's and affluent photo enthusiasts. 5 years ago that event would have been 80% Canon. Now ( based on my observation) I would say Canon and Nikon are evenly splitting about 60% of the market with Sony, Olympus and other MILC brands splitting the rest. Canon big and little whites were no more than 10 or 15% of the lenses with the majority now being the Sigma and Tamron superzooms. I don't see how a 90D with a 32 MP sensor is going to turn that around.

I get that Canon is cautious and concerned about the overall market but they really need to come up with some compelling products or the wildlife market is going to pass them by. I'd say MILC are only a generation or so behind for sports/action and the next 12 months are going to be a big release period for Sony.

Yes. I'm sure the 1DX3 will be outstanding but that market is shrinking too. I might have seen half a dozen pro (1D/D4-5) bodies. Five years ago there would have been a hundred. People want what they want but Canon still thinks they can bend the market to what they choose to provide. I don't think that's going to be a winning strategy this time around.
 
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Joules

EOS RP
Jul 16, 2017
237
153
Hamburg, Germany
Wouldnt count on it. Canon released the M50, R, RP, and SL3 all with DIGIC 8, all with video crops. It's clearly not a function of sensor size or anything, they just cant (or wont) deliver 4k without crop. This camera will 100% have a crop factor in 4k on top of 1.6x from APS-C.
I woudn't count on anything from Canon either. But the Cameras you nentioned may use a new processor, but all of them use sensors from 2017 (6D II = RP) or 2016 (5D IV = R, 80D = M50).

With the time that has passed since then and the jump in resolution, there is at least hope that Canon have managed to get their throughput up high enough for full sensor read out.

I am SO tired of hearing about the 4K tech of yore, that hasn't been implemented into the modern day DSLR's. Just because it's "4K" doesn;t mean a thing, as far as the way the final product will be implemented.
True. Canon shows that quite frequently by implementing 4K without proper AF (M50) or with crops that somewhat defeat the benefits of using full frame cameras.

You make it sound though as if nobody has delivered 4K that statisfies it's users and Canon aren't realy any worse than other's here.

They simply have a problem with throughput. Doesn't hurt anybody to admit that, does it? I'm sure they are aware of it. You must be aware of a problem inorder ro fix it.

Buy a dedicated video camera if you want to use 4K video in your final production.
I lost interest in video quite a while ago. But this attitude is weird to me anyway.

Canon are struggling to handle the same amount of data throughput that Sony for example handles. That most likely plays a role in the video limitations we see with most of their 4K Implementations. But also with Stills framerate and autofocus tracking abilities.

If we had a camera that handles continuous 60 frames per second full resolution raw shooting with a global shutter, that camera would likely get a lot of love from stills and video shooters alike (given that they have huge amount of storage or a way to compress the data to the level they need).

Video features aren't exlusively beneficial to video shooters. LiveView, and an EVF image for that matter, aren't much else than real time video beeing played back from the sensor. And even if you don't want more FPS from you're camera, quicker, more reliable tracking should still be appreciated.

Also, what's all this about just buying a camcorder? Like I said, lost interest in video a while back but camcorders with APS-C or Full Frame sensors and interchangeable lenses are still insanely expensive, are they not? If so, that's just not an alternative.
 

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,445
2,603
Just back from a regional migratory bird festival which attracts tens of thousands of wildlife pro's and affluent photo enthusiasts. 5 years ago that event would have been 80% Canon. Now ( based on my observation) I would say Canon and Nikon are evenly splitting about 60% of the market with Sony, Olympus and other MILC brands splitting the rest. Canon big and little whites were no more than 10 or 15% of the lenses with the majority now being the Sigma and Tamron superzooms. I don't see how a 90D with a 32 MP sensor is going to turn that around.

I get that Canon is cautious and concerned about the overall market but they really need to come up with some compelling products or the wildlife market is going to pass them by. I'd say MILC are only a generation or so behind for sports/action and the next 12 months are going to be a big release period for Sony.

Yes. I'm sure the 1DX3 will be outstanding but that market is shrinking too. I might have seen half a dozen pro (1D/D4-5) bodies. Five years ago there would have been a hundred. People want what they want but Canon still thinks they can bend the market to what they choose to provide. I don't think that's going to be a winning strategy this time around.
Anecdotal observation of 10s of 1000s does mean something, and does resonate with my serial observations of smaller numbers. Canon is just so frustrating. It's not that you can't get good nature images from Canon gear, it's that they could do better and they seem complacent about it. The Nikon D500 is a much better camera than the 7DII in terms of AF and IQ and other features as is the D850 compared with the 5DIV. Nikon has a lightweight modern 300mm f/4 PF (PF =DO) and 500mm 5/5.6 PF, doing with Canon's own technology what Canon should have done. Canon is still peddling a 20 year old much heavier, bigger, lower IQ and IS 300mm f/4, and its excellent 400mm f/4 DO II is much heavier than the 500 PF and really expensive. I prefer the Canon 100-400mm II but the Nikkor 200-500mm/D500 combination is very appealing to those making a choice between Nikon and Canon.
 
Aug 1, 2017
380
222
Anecdotal observation of 10s of 1000s does mean something, and does resonate with my serial observations of smaller numbers. Canon is just so frustrating. It's not that you can't get good nature images from Canon gear, it's that they could do better and they seem complacent about it. The Nikon D500 is a much better camera than the 7DII in terms of AF and IQ and other features as is the D850 compared with the 5DIV. Nikon has a lightweight modern 300mm f/4 PF (PF =DO) and 500mm 5/5.6 PF, doing with Canon's own technology what Canon should have done. Canon is still peddling a 20 year old much heavier, bigger, lower IQ and IS 300mm f/4, and its excellent 400mm f/4 DO II is much heavier than the 500 PF and really expensive. I prefer the Canon 100-400mm II but the Nikkor 200-500mm/D500 combination is very appealing to those making a choice between Nikon and Canon.
Yes. I conciously observed at least a thousand and casually observed several additional thousands so I'm confident that it's a reasonable sample of the US birding/wildlife market. I'd also say that the Nikon gear appeared to be more recently purchased than the Canon gear. The Sony's, and other MILC's as well. I don't recall seeing an EOS R/RP or a Nikon Z but there may have been.

Canon, who have attended in previous years to promote their gear, did not appear to be there. I guess they are too busy with the EOS R. The 100-400 II is a great lens but it's a 400 and the competitors are cheaper and 500-600mm so that's not a hard choice. I've worked with the 100-400 II/1.4x combo a fair amount and, even with the 1DX2, it's a challenge to lock focus in anything other than ideal light on a static subject. I found it near impossible to photograph warblers with a 5D4/100-400II/1.4x combo.

I have to admit that I'm skeptical that Canon resources are best spent re-enginerering their entire lens line in a new mount vs. supporting current markets that have been very Canon friendly. I don't recall anyone asking Canon for a complete line of alternate mount lenses but now everyone now seems to think it's a great idea. I don't get it. The EOS R line could be years away from delivering a competent wildlife body.
 
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preppyak

EOS 6D MK II
Oct 18, 2011
984
54
Just because a camera company offers some specifications that are sounding better than the other companies doesn't mean that they are going to be a reliable standard.
I guarantee you you've watched movies shot on a GH4 or a7III and didnt even realize it. This isnt cell phone video...Panasonic in particular is a widely praised implementation of 4k.

Canon has long had DSLR video problems. Their 1080 was soft compared to their competitors, and now they are years behind in 4k.

Buy a dedicated video camera if you want to use 4K video in your final production.
I travel for my government funded grant work, I dont have the luxury of throwing in a C300 along with my DSLRs, and my whole goal is to condense my kit. The very point of owning a camera of this style is that it can do multiple things, even with some tradeoffs. But super cropped 4k with no DPAF is a trade off that makes every other brand more appealing.

@ preppyak Buy a GH4 and go to the Panasonic forums to pat them on the back for the "Awesome" job they did/are doing. We won't miss you pal. :)
I actually did upgrade my GH4 to a GH5 because I wanted dedicated audio inputs (another thing Canon doesnt deliver that Sony/Panasonic do). My dream goal was to own my 80D and 90D, the 90D shooting useable 4k, both sharing the same battery type so I could further condense my kit. I even considered the RP, because at its price point its tempting, but the video is mediocre, the battery is weak, and I dont want to further lock myself into Canon at this point.

But if Canons 90D video is the same as the M50 or SL3, I wont upgrade. I got the useable 4k I need from my GH5, and while Id like my multi-camera set up to be entirely 4k, I deliver in 1080 so I can settle for the short-term.
 

preppyak

EOS 6D MK II
Oct 18, 2011
984
54
@malarcky I mean, I've shot Canon for the last decade. First on their DV cams, then on an XF, before moving to the 50D, 60D, and now 80D. My office also had Canon camcorders in that time. For my personal work I also briefly owned an a7R (hated it, mostly) and a GH2 (amazing video with the hacks). Canon with Magic Lantern was the preferred go-to over a hacked GH2 for a while. That's changed dramatically. Ive tried to stick with Canon...but the market demands are outstripping them for video right now.

Rooting for people to leave Canon is just a dumb strategy all around. One, because people already are...and two, because Canon is already seeing a massive drop in sales of these cameras, and each drop in sales makes them less willing to put the R&D in to improve the camera to get people back.
 

Jasonmc89

EOS 80D + 100-400mm mkii
Feb 7, 2019
127
91
UK
if they ever do merge the 7D and the 80D they should name it 9D. However, I am not sure how those two very different body options can be merged in a way both type of uses will be happy with them.
7d speed, build quality and focus system with everything else from an 80d should do it! To be honest an 80d sensor in a 7d2 would do me fine.
 

StoicalEtcher

EOS 80D
Jan 3, 2018
141
56
Yorkshire

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,445
2,603
7d speed, build quality and focus system with everything else from an 80d should do it! To be honest an 80d sensor in a 7d2 would do me fine.
The 80D sensor in a 7DIII would not do me fine as neither would the 7DII AF system. My 5DSR gives better AF than did my old 7DII as does a 1.6x crop of the 5DSR gives better IQ than the 7DII. The 80D has better DR at low iso but otherwise the IQ of the 5DSR is better. So, I want the Canon 7DIII to have improved AF and IQ up to the D500.
 
Aug 1, 2017
380
222
G.A., you might be right, but on the other hand, I don't know if you've seen the postings on the Andy Rouse thread here, Andy Rouse tweeted about some “new kit” - unreleased camera or lens? which I'm guessing could be an R camera in development under testing. And, if so, seems to be giving some pretty hot results!

Cheers.
I hope you're right. I guess we'll see. Presently, expecting high speed continuous focusing from DPAF is a bit like a hammering a square peg into a round hole. I guess Canon will work it out eventually.
 

Jasonmc89

EOS 80D + 100-400mm mkii
Feb 7, 2019
127
91
UK
The 80D sensor in a 7DIII would not do me fine as neither would the 7DII AF system. My 5DSR gives better AF than did my old 7DII as does a 1.6x crop of the 5DSR gives better IQ than the 7DII. The 80D has better DR at low iso but otherwise the IQ of the 5DSR is better. So, I want the Canon 7DIII to have improved AF and IQ up to the D500.
Don’t get me wrong I want the 7d3 to be world class and smash the D500. I should have emphasised the “me” part more as that’s all I’d require.; I’m just a hobbyist. I love the 7d2 but the IQ is seriously lacking now. Been using the 80d for a while now and the IQ seems way better to me, if little to no cropping is required I can get good files up to iso3200 and the colours are way better. Can’t say I’ve spent much time with the 7D2’s focusing system but I k ow a lot of people share your view.