Canon releases financials and lays out advanced EOS R plans

scyrene

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I just get the feeling the RS has become the R5 for the video features (business decisions again) and the RS will possibly never see the light of day. We’ll probably see a sports camera next now.
I wouldn't be so hasty. There's no reason at all to believe that, except pessimism. We simply don't know. But there's long been talk of a high resolution body, and we know they are producing sensors on a commercial basis with pixel densities that would give ~83MP FF, so I still expect they'll bring one out, for bragging rights if nothing else. Just because a couple more bodies have risen to the surface in the past few weeks doesn't change what we (thought we) knew before that.
 
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NiktoCan

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Jan 31, 2020
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Funny how so many Sony users are hoping the Canon R5 specs are no where near reality. Why would all of us (Nikon, Canon, Sony) not hope for increased competition. It will only push our manufacturer of choice to develop and produce better offerings? With that ridiculous logic, Sony users should be happy with 720p, as long as Sony was the only one to offer it...
 
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Codebunny

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Sep 5, 2018
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Funny how so many Sony users are hoping the Canon R5 specs are no where near reality. Why would all of us (Nikon, Canon, Sony) not hope for increased competition. It will only push our manufacturer of choice to develop and produce better offerings? With that ridiculous logic, Sony users should be happy with 720p, as long as Sony was the only one to offer it...
Perhaps my limited time here. But I keep hearing about Sony and Sony users as if they are the market dominator, when they are in third place. Canon’s rival is Nikon, I am more interested in what they are doing and how their lenses and bodies compete. What Sony is doing just now is irrelevant.

And back on to your post, aye more completion is good but users need to remember that there is more to the camera than a few specs which one body does better than another. The tens of thousands you have invested in one system or another is a much bigger factor than if the Nikon Z7 Mark ii will have more pixels than the Canon R5. No user is seriously going to switch at the drop of a body and re buy a whole new set of lenses.
 
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canonnews

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I do agree with you of course but you also understand cramming more and more is not a endless excersize of benefits, at some point there is diminishing returns on resolution, you cant just say this resolution is bigger on this sensor so it must be better, lets have as many photosites as possible. It does also have drawbacks on action photography and iso.
Yes I get tech keeps improving, but that can only go so far. This seems a more all around camera and I'd intend to use it for BIF and Landscape, a tighter pixel count also means faster shutter needed. This was already evident with the 1dxii and the 5div, I needed higher shutter to stop very fast action. Imagine what I'll need for 45mp. Cropping for me does nothing if the shot is motion blurred. But I get what you're saying as well.
yes and no, I respectively think there's more to be said about this - it's not quite that black and white.

1) if you view at the same output image size between a high MP and a low MP camera the shutter speeds necessary to stop action would be the same. So for instance, if you printed at say, a page spread and viewed them, the shutter speed necessary to look as if they are stopped would be effectively the same between the two cameras. Thus for the sake of a true comparison between low and high MP cameras, there is no difference.

2) if you view the images at the same level of pixel magnification (ie: 100% magnification on both) on each you are effectively increasing the print dimensions of the higher MP camera. Thus requiring a higher shutter speed. So then you have to adjust your shutter speed accordingly. But that higher MP camera allows you to put more pixels on target for when you can use a high shutter speed and because of that you can effectively crop tighter. You don't even have that option with a low MP camera.

It really depends on how you use the tool, but in reality, you can use a high MP camera in ways that you never could a lower resolution camera - which is why alot of people are screaming about the 1DX Mark III only be 20MP.
 
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canonnews

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Funny how so many Sony users are hoping the Canon R5 specs are no where near reality. Why would all of us (Nikon, Canon, Sony) not hope for increased competition. It will only push our manufacturer of choice to develop and produce better offerings? With that ridiculous logic, Sony users should be happy with 720p, as long as Sony was the only one to offer it...
I'm seriously waiting to see if the R5 is this camera that was leaked.

if it is - after posting all the dirty details on my website, and checking out CR - i'm grabbing a big popcorn bag and camping on dpreview because it would be epic to see the lengths in which the sony trolls will go to still find a way to say Sony's better (probably they'll point to the lenses) - but the level of imploding will be seriously epic.
 

canonnews

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Completely agree and understand the business decision from Canon re sales number. Still doesn’t diminish the high res wanters disappointment.

I just get the feeling the RS has become the R5 for the video features (business decisions again) and the RS will possibly never see the light of day. We’ll probably see a sports camera next now.
why on earth would you think that Canon would let Sony (or Nikon) hold onto the high MP crown? 3 years was the longest that any company other than Canon held that crown and you can bet Canon didn't like it much.

If this R5 beast is real and legit. Canon should be able to make around a 60-80MP full frame sensor and have it process at around 900 Megapixels per second. So, in reality, it should hit around 10 fps mechanical and electronic. Rolling shutter would probably suck, but hey. Life isn't perfect.

That said, it depends on the R5 - if it's real then Canon's really upped it's game with DIGIC in a massive way, not to mention really put the pedal to the metal when it comes to sensor speed.

IMO a high MP camera is a no brainer. Canon certainly doesn't want the A7R IV being the highest MP camera available. Heck they may not even like the GFX 100 sitting up there at 100MP.

Keep in mind that Canon has been actively developing a 120MP DSLR for around 4+ years now. They still have all the pieces of that laying around.
 
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Gazwas

EOS 80D
Sep 3, 2018
110
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why on earth would you think that Canon would let Sony (or Nikon) hold onto the high MP crown? 3 years was the longest that any company other than Canon held that crown and you can bet Canon didn't like it much.
I'm just spouting hot air but 45MP is probably considered high resolution enough for most people and video in this segment is probably more important (outside this forum) today than stills photography. I just think going forward the headline features in cameras for future generations of content creators will be video resolutions, frame rates and codecs over MP count.

For Canon to specifically talk about the importance of video in the recent financial statments points to what they hold important in the mirrorless market place and 100MP woun't necessarily sell more cameras today but 8K will.
 

cayenne

EOR R
Mar 28, 2012
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<snip>

IMO a high MP camera is a no brainer. Canon certainly doesn't want the A7R IV being the highest MP camera available. Heck they may not even like the GFX 100 sitting up there at 100MP.

Keep in mind that Canon has been actively developing a 120MP DSLR for around 4+ years now. They still have all the pieces of that laying around.
I wonder if Canon will ever want to dip their toes into the Medium Format area?

the GFX100 is very interesting, but that's not only 100MP, but it's also a larger medium format sensor too....requiring different lenses and all to cover the physically larger sensor....right?

I"ve been dabbling in Medium Format 120 film photography and it is interesting for sure. I was thinking of renting the GFX 100 and even maybe the Hasselblad X1D 2 just to see what that's like....

But would be cool if Canon jumped into that arena, but I'm guessing that's a WHOLE new thread there alone...haha.

I'm anxious to see what the R5 comes out like....should be very interesting and I"d love to make my 5D3 a backup to the R5 if it proves to be true to the specs leaked.

cayenne
 

PureClassA

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That said, it depends on the R5 - if it's real then Canon's really upped it's game with DIGIC in a massive way, not to mention really put the pedal to the metal when it comes to sensor speed.
I always wondered if when they upgraded their sensor fabrication process a few years ago now, if they had done the same with their CPUs. Similar to what AMD did to leapfrog intel and capture the growing Cloud Computing sector by investing heavily into the 7nm chip making process. meanwhile intel is struggling to catch up. Looks like Canon pulled this off with the Digic X, making a DX3 that always had 2 CPUs (plus a third for AF). It looks like after years of planning and VERY costly production upgrades, Canon has finally assembled all the puzzle pieces it needed to tear it wide open.
 
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Gazwas

EOS 80D
Sep 3, 2018
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I wonder if Canon will ever want to dip their toes into the Medium Format area?

the GFX100 is very interesting, but that's not only 100MP, but it's also a larger medium format sensor too....requiring different lenses and all to cover the physically larger sensor....right?

I"ve been dabbling in Medium Format 120 film photography and it is interesting for sure. I was thinking of renting the GFX 100 and even maybe the Hasselblad X1D 2 just to see what that's like....

But would be cool if Canon jumped into that arena, but I'm guessing that's a WHOLE new thread there alone...haha.

I'm anxious to see what the R5 comes out like....should be very interesting and I"d love to make my 5D3 a backup to the R5 if it proves to be true to the specs leaked.

cayenne
I personally think MFD is even more dead in the water than DSLR's and would be a massive mistake to follow that path. I honestly don't know how Phase One stays afloat and if it wasn't for the X1D, I think we would have lost Hasselblad a few years back.
 

canonnews

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I always wondered if when they upgraded their sensor fabrication process a few years ago now, if they had done the same with their CPUs. Similar to what AMD did to leapfrog intel and capture the growing Cloud Computing sector by investing heavily into the 7nm chip making process. meanwhile intel is struggling to catch up. Looks like Canon pulled this off with the Digic X, making a DX3 that always had 2 CPUs (plus a third for AF). It looks like after years of planning and VERY costly production upgrades, Canon has finally assembled all the puzzle pieces it needed to tear it wide open.
Canon outsources DIGIC. It was in the past codeveloped with TI and manufactured at some other fab.

But they may have done away with TI.

They did go from 500nm to 300nm quietly with the 1dx mark ii.
 

PureClassA

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I personally think MFD is even more dead in the water than DSLR's and would be a massive mistake to follow that path. I honestly don't know how Phase One stays afloat and if it wasn't for the X1D, I think we would have lost Hasselblad a few years back.
MFD isn't going anywhere. Physics are still physics and Medium Formal can therefore do thing 35mm can't. Granted it is a VERY specialized tool for extremely high end portrait pros who can charge for high end work and high end cameras. Medium format will never achieve the market penetration 35mm will. But thats why they are priced so much higher because they wont ever produce in large volume.
 

PureClassA

Canon since age 5. The A1
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Canon outsources DIGIC. It was in the past codeveloped with TI and manufactured at some other fab.

But they may have done away with TI.

They did go from 500nm to 300nm quietly with the 1dx mark ii.
Now that you say that, I do recall the Texas Instruments thing. Would be curious to know who is doing it now.

"DIGIC 5 was co-designed with Texas Instruments (TI) and manufactured by TI through foundry partnership in Asia using 45 nm node technology fanned out by TI.[11][12] "

That was 2011... 45nm, at least according to Wiki.
 

cayenne

EOR R
Mar 28, 2012
2,078
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MFD isn't going anywhere. Physics are still physics and Medium Formal can therefore do thing 35mm can't. Granted it is a VERY specialized tool for extremely high end portrait pros who can charge for high end work and high end cameras. Medium format will never achieve the market penetration 35mm will. But thats why they are priced so much higher because they wont ever produce in large volume.
Yeah, with camera sales in general going down, it MFD likely isn't going to get wide spread any time soon. Although, I do think the likes of the GFX100/50 and the X1D II are making things a BIT more reachable by common folks. A BIT...lol.

I do see the coming Hasselblad digital back, the part of the new CFV II 50C digital back coming out, as possibly being something that can introduce more wide spread (a relative term for sure) to more of the masses with disposable income:

Hasselblad V System new Products

The old 500 V system series of camera are out there by the ton, and aren't really that $$$...and it seems 120 film is having a bit of a resurgence from what I can see....and being able to pick up one of these cameras with lenses for a very reasonable price, could set you up to start shooting in an interesting square (6x6) format which is new to a lot of folks.....and then save up and get one of these backs and voila, you are in the MFD game for MUCH less than the Phase one or the Hasselblad H system beasts.

I"m actually kinda hoping that this is the case...if that new back comes out in the $5K range...with scrimping and saving, I could get one of these and really have a great companion to my Canon FF gear..plus I have that film thing I can fall back to for more variety.

I've actually been VERY surprised at the amount of content on YouTube on not just film, but MF film and cameras out there.

So, yes, while likely never to be as main stream 35mm digital, it does seem to be creeping into consciousness more and more of those really into photography.

As I understand it, in high end product commercial photography, fashion, etc...MF is highly prized and used, so perhaps it might be a part of that higher end, higher dollar market Canon might some day shoot for?

I dunno, likely wishful thinking, but interesting to discuss.

I mean, if eventually, I get a R5 and put my 5D3 back into back up mode for that, and have my 501CM where I can shoot 120 film and Digital MF there too...man, I think I'd be set as far as covering as many types of photography (and some video) as I'd want for quite some time.

While I'm at it....I'd also like a pony.
 

Gazwas

EOS 80D
Sep 3, 2018
110
71
MFD isn't going anywhere. Physics are still physics and Medium Formal can therefore do thing 35mm can't. Granted it is a VERY specialized tool for extremely high end portrait pros who can charge for high end work and high end cameras. Medium format will never achieve the market penetration 35mm will. But thats why they are priced so much higher because they wont ever produce in large volume.
I'm not so sure. For work I've shot exclusivly MFD for years but when Sony intruduced the A7R that all changed and myself like quite a few other photographers I know now shoot with FF 35mm. All my MFD kit has now gone and I've never looked back. The Sony A7RII was a game changer and I very much expect Canon to change the industy again with their new cameras and lenses going forward. Not sure if you have uses a MFD camera but focus accuracy and speed of focus is light years ahead with FF and when things like eye AF continue to evolve and resolutions climb higher I imagine event the high end guys will take notice.

And physics has very little to do with it as while the very high end might still demand MFD, this is more a case of what is expected on set when big budgets are being spent rather than from an IQ perspective.
 

Matthew19

EOS T7i
Feb 8, 2012
66
2
The 30 minute limitation has never been a technical limitation. It's to do with avoiding taxes on products in certain regions that are considered "video" cameras. It seems that at 30 mins, any camera automagically becomes a video camera.
that law was done away with a. couple of years ago.
 

melgross

EOS 7D MK II
Nov 2, 2016
437
239
What's your point? I'm talking general trends and the ability of Canon and Nikon to weather the ups and downs of the market and plan accordingly. An anecdote about what some random Canon rep told some random nosy teenager in the 60s is hardly relevant.
Wow, aren’t you defensive.
 

blackcoffee17

EOS RP
Sep 17, 2014
256
208
It's not just the sensor and processing power: video needs an entirely different soft- and hardware process and your implication was that if a sensor just can deliver a lot of frames quickly and a processor is potent enough all the rest will magically fall into place. Which is simply not true, and that extra effort in both hard- and software is something every user has to pay for when they buy the camera, a camera that will still be very much a stills camera when it comes to ergonomics and handling. So why pour all that energy into video features no photographer cares about?
You are right of course but how realistic would be to develop a camera only for stills? People would complain that it does not have video and sales would be low, just like for the Nikon Df.
IF not adding video features and designing a sensor only for stills would meke the image quality would be much better, then maybe it would have a market, i don't know.