Canon to add 24p recording to the Canon EOS 90D, Canon EOS RP & Canon EOS M6 Mark II

navastronia

EOS RP + 5D Classic
Aug 31, 2018
207
228
It's quite possible that with content-aware autofocus we will soon see a subscription-based model. If you want your autofocus to not lag behind your neighbor's, you will need to pay monthly.
Boy, that would be awful.
 

WoodyWindy

On the road again!
Jul 20, 2010
87
1
So wait...the amount of feedback that Canon got for giving the EOS R 120fps in 720p and they're not even going to update the EOS R's 120fps to 1080p even though we all know it's capable of doing so?! Ugh...
We don't know either of those things to be true. (that they aren't updating the capture, or that it is capable of handling it even if they wanted to). Granted, since they didn't announce it, chances are they aren't doing it is a fair statement, if a bit speculative. However, there is no indication that the higher frame rate at the higher resolution is even possible with the tech in the camera (raw data transfer rates or CPU power does not equal the ability to do anything you want).
 
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freejay

EOS M50
Feb 3, 2015
39
24
I definitely don' t feel left alone, but I think you have a tendency to negatively oversimplify your opinion of big bad Canon...
That's what you read from my post? Interesting. I'm a fan of Canon products - just that you know it...
 

Scenes

Filmmaker
Jun 12, 2014
62
43
UK
There’s no 1:1 4K crop mode on the 90D. It’s 3:2. And the reason the M6II doesn’t have it is almost 100% certainly thermal concerns. According to Gordon Laing the 90D can shoot uncropped 4K about 6*30min without pausing to cool down, but cropped 4K only a bit over 30 min at a time. Meanwhile the M6II with its lesser heat rejection capacity could only record about 45 min of (uncropped) 4K before shutting down.
I’ve seen No evidence of recording 4K footage Uncropped and having to stop to cool down and recorded plenty of clips 20-25mins.
 

Dantana

EOS RP
Jan 29, 2013
241
89
Los Angeles, CA
www.flickr.com
PAL and NTSC are pretty much obsolete artifacts of the analog era. Digital displays have their own refresh rates (typically 60 Hz) and it's a media player's job to figure out how to best reproduce whatever frame rate it is given.
So, you’re saying that digital displays tun at 60Hz in countries that have 50Hz electrical service? That’s news to me.
 

Kit.

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 25, 2011
1,358
747
So, you’re saying that digital displays tun at 60Hz in countries that have 50Hz electrical service? That’s news to me.
I believe most notebook displays have no other option than 60Hz.

However, I doubt that a human eye can detect a sub-10ms jitter in video frames shown on LCDs.
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
7,911
1,053
119
So, you’re saying that digital displays tun at 60Hz in countries that have 50Hz electrical service? That’s news to me.
Look at any Apple store worldwide, standard display frequency and support is always listed at 60Hz.

Just goes to show how ridiculous the 24p meme is. It is impossible to display true 24 fps unless you are using very specialized equipment or you have an old film projector. Everything else is cadenced to make it fit in 60Hz, 2:2, 3:2 blah blah blah....
 
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stevelee

FT-QL
Jul 6, 2017
1,252
285
Davidson, NC
Look at any Apple store worldwide, standard display frequency and support is always listed at 60Hz.

Just goes to show how ridiculous the 24p meme is. It is impossible to display true 24 fps unless you are using very specialized equipment or you have an old film projector. Everything else is cadenced to make it fit in 60Hz, 2:2, 3:2 blah blah blah....
But we are used to seeing 24fps movies shown on 60fps screens. That is what looks “cinematic“ to us. I watched old movies on what amounted to 30i starting by 1954.
 

cpreston

EOS T7i
Mar 22, 2014
99
40
24p is not 23.98fps. They are two different and incompatible formats, and should not be used interchangeably.
This isn't even a semantic pet peeve. This is a dangerous misunderstanding and it is surprising how few people seem to understand this. When a client asks me for 24p, I make sure to note that I will be giving them 23.98p. I mean, I can give them 24p, but they will probably be very unhappy about it. Even the EOS R can shoot actual 24p. I'm assuming this headline actually means 23.98p, but it would be funny if Canon was only supplying 24p like everybody keeps demanding.
 

Dantana

EOS RP
Jan 29, 2013
241
89
Los Angeles, CA
www.flickr.com
Look at any Apple store worldwide, standard display frequency and support is always listed at 60Hz.

Just goes to show how ridiculous the 24p meme is. It is impossible to display true 24 fps unless you are using very specialized equipment or you have an old film projector. Everything else is cadenced to make it fit in 60Hz, 2:2, 3:2 blah blah blah....
That's interesting. I thought it was tied to the mains. Thanks for the bit of knowledge.

The point of my original reply wasn't really tied to Hz or old video standards, but trying to tell someone who sounded like they were in Europe why people in North America might want to shoot 24 vs 25. I see that I could have been much better at answering that. For film (since the sound era) 24 fps has been the standard projection format in North America, 25 fps in Europe. That has trickled down into different parts of film and video production. In analog days, that seemed to have also been tied to the mains of the region of production, but it seems that now it's not the case.

I'm not advocating for shooting at any particular frame-rate, or even criticizing whatever camera company for including or not including a particular frame-rate on their cameras (especially their consumer oriented cameras). People have their reasons (valid or not) for shooting at a preferred frame-rate.

Times change, formats change, mediums change.
 

stevelee

FT-QL
Jul 6, 2017
1,252
285
Davidson, NC
This isn't even a semantic pet peeve. This is a dangerous misunderstanding and it is surprising how few people seem to understand this. When a client asks me for 24p, I make sure to note that I will be giving them 23.98p. I mean, I can give them 24p, but they will probably be very unhappy about it. Even the EOS R can shoot actual 24p. I'm assuming this headline actually means 23.98p, but it would be funny if Canon was only supplying 24p like everybody keeps demanding.
OK, I understand why adding color information for NTSC made them slow down 30 fps to 29 point something. The black-and-white sets could just ignore the color signal and it would be compatible. But I have no clue why 23.98 ever was a thing. It’s not like anybody had 24 Hz house current In the TV era as best I’ve heard.

Also my TV says it has a 120 Hz refresh rate, or maybe 240. Are those specs right, or are those really just multiples of the NTSC slowdown rate?
 

Ricardo_fon

I'm New Here
Mar 19, 2019
18
12
OK, I understand why adding color information for NTSC made them slow down 30 fps to 29 point something. The black-and-white sets could just ignore the color signal and it would be compatible. But I have no clue why 23.98 ever was a thing. It’s not like anybody had 24 Hz house current In the TV era as best I’ve heard.

Also my TV says it has a 120 Hz refresh rate, or maybe 240. Are those specs right, or are those really just multiples of the NTSC slowdown rate?
I don't know exactly how it all works. But my TV gives a notification on the bottom of the screen when the frame rate changes. As far as I can tell it matches the frame rate of the content. Sometimes it shows 24, sometimes 25, 30, 60, etc. That's off my Apple TV. I think it's playing back as per content, so the tv can play anything up the rating... But stand to be corrected.
 

cpreston

EOS T7i
Mar 22, 2014
99
40
OK, I understand why adding color information for NTSC made them slow down 30 fps to 29 point something. The black-and-white sets could just ignore the color signal and it would be compatible. But I have no clue why 23.98 ever was a thing. It’s not like anybody had 24 Hz house current In the TV era as best I’ve heard.

Also my TV says it has a 120 Hz refresh rate, or maybe 240. Are those specs right, or are those really just multiples of the NTSC slowdown rate?
The 23.976 is for the pull down to fit into the 59.94 hz / 29.97 NTSC standard. It was the way to fit a 24p movie onto a TV. My guess is that the newer TV's can actually show a 24p movie without any pull down. Heck, maybe TV's will start showing blank frames to mimic an actual movie projector so you can really get that 24p effect that people insist is the best.

In any case, professional audio and video equipment can do both 23.98 and 24p, but way too many people shorten 23.98p to 24p without realizing the complete mess that can occur if sound and the various cameras are all recording at different rates due to a misunderstanding.
 

stevelee

FT-QL
Jul 6, 2017
1,252
285
Davidson, NC
The 23.976 is for the pull down to fit into the 59.94 hz / 29.97 NTSC standard. It was the way to fit a 24p movie onto a TV. My guess is that the newer TV's can actually show a 24p movie without any pull down. Heck, maybe TV's will start showing blank frames to mimic an actual movie projector so you can really get that 24p effect that people insist is the best.

In any case, professional audio and video equipment can do both 23.98 and 24p, but way too many people shorten 23.98p to 24p without realizing the complete mess that can occur if sound and the various cameras are all recording at different rates due to a misunderstanding.
Thanks. That makes sense. I assume that my TV just shows each frame 5 times when it is given 24p material from the Blu-Ray/DVD player.
 

CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D SR
Jan 28, 2015
4,102
1,647
Irving, Texas
I definitely don' t feel left alone, but I think you have a tendency to negatively oversimplify your opinion of big bad Canon...
I have to agree with you Del Paso. 1. Everyone, including professionals, are consumers. 2. The idea that any consumer only buys what he "needs" is wrong headed. I buy what I "want". Personally, I couldn't care less about video. 3. The idea that "professionals" are out spending big bucks just because they are "professionals" is the silliest thing I have ever heard. Most professionals are eating hand to mouth. What makes them (some of them) unique is that their work is good enough to draw customers. My young cousin makes her living on senior pictures, engagement photos, and family portraits. However, she has to turn a large volume of customers to make a living at it. She shoots with a 70D and only pop-up flash, no "L" glass... but by definition she is a professional. The vast majority of them don't make much money at all. 4. Some "consumers" and "enthusiasts" put many professionals to shame with their work.

I am no pro. I try to get a paid gig now and then to support my photography habit. I was recently asked to quote senior photos for a young model I have gotten published twice. My quote was $350 for 4 hours, and then extra if I sent off for prints. Needless to say, they went with a lady that did the job for $75 including prints. The photos were horrid. So the competition is cut throat. The pressure is down on prices.

Canon does a great job in my opinion for what I do. Freejay is oversimplifying big time, and yes, negatively. Not all pro consumers are running around with top line gear. Not all amateur consumers are running around with low end gear. I happen to be an enthusiast consumer. Canon has not forgotten about me, which is what freejay said. In fact, I would wager that the enthusiasts are Canon's biggest market. Canon is producing exactly what I want.
 
May 30, 2019
4
0
I am getting so tired listening to this endless whine, about no 24p especially in those cases where there is 25 fps. NO one will see the difference
My coworkers from the editing and marketing departments would whine all day to me if I ever deliver a 25fps for them to work with, since this format is a nightmare to blend with any 24fps content without introducing very noticeable frame skipping or time demaning tasks to fix it.
 

Sharlin

EOS 6D MK II
Dec 26, 2015
1,061
559
Turku, Finland
So, you’re saying that digital displays tun at 60Hz in countries that have 50Hz electrical service? That’s news to me.
Even old analog CRT computer displays almost never had vertical refresh synchronized with the mains frequency. A CRT at 60Hz flickers very noticeably and irritatingly, never mind at 50Hz! 75Hz was widely seen as the minimum reasonable frequency for long-term usage, and high-end monitors would refresh at 90 or 100Hz.

Digital LCD displays would basically standardize at 60Hz because unlike with CRTs, flicker is not that big of a big problem, and getting LCDs to refresh even that quickly without ghosting or reduction in contrast was a fairly difficult engineering challenge. They're fundamentally DC semiconductor devices anyway, so mains frequency does not matter at all.