Canon to announce at least 6 new RF lenses next week

Viggo

EOS 5D SR
Dec 13, 2010
4,216
782
Canon always thinks that far ahead.

When the first IS lens was released in 1995, it turned out that all bodies introduced since 2003 were already compatible with the new IS lens.
Aren’t those numbers the wrong way around?
 

Lee Jay

EOR R
Sep 22, 2011
2,069
51
If you are happy with the image quality and maximum aperture you get at 600mm f/6.3 with the Sigma 150-600mm on an APS-C camera, the high end Canon long glass is not for you.
It's a good light lens, and the IQ is a match for my 70-200L IS II when both are 1/3 of a stop down.

The Canon long glass doesn't zoom making it useless for my purposes, and I rarely need f/2.8 when shooting long. And I have a much bigger 'lens' than anything Canon makes when I need serious focal length (2000mm f7 or 2800mm f/10).
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,610
2,072
If you are happy with the image quality and maximum aperture you get at 600mm f/6.3 with the Sigma 150-600mm on an APS-C camera, the high end Canon long glass is not for you.
Indeed. In less challenging conditions (eg. full daylight), APS-C and lower quality lenses can certainly deliver excellent images. In those conditions, something like a Sony RX10 will do just as well, and be much smaller and lighter than a 7D/150-600 combo. In more challenging conditions (needing fast shutter speeds in lower light, like birds in flight in the early morning or late evening where light quality is great but light quantity isn’t), a faster lens and a larger sensor really make a difference – but there’s a trade off in size, weight and cost.
 
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Kit Lens Jockey

EOS 7D MK II
Nov 12, 2016
528
190
I think this rollout was exactly what they wanted to do. Introduce a couple of halo lenses to establish their commitment to the mirrorless platform, and a moderately priced body with enough features to not fall flat. Then introduce a value priced model for the mass market and finally a “pro” model for all the hobbyists to drain their retirement savings on.
Did they also intend to put out a camera that doesn't even do burst shooting in silent shutter mode without a firmware update like essentially every other good mirrorless camera can?

I maintain that Canon got caught out by Nikon's release, and had to push the EOS R out the door before it was really ready. The R isn't a bad camera, but it is a rushed camera.
 
Mar 14, 2012
2,305
190
Did they also intend to put out a camera that doesn't even do burst shooting in silent shutter mode without a firmware update like essentially every other good mirrorless camera can?

I maintain that Canon got caught out by Nikon's release, and had to push the EOS R out the door before it was really ready. The R isn't a bad camera, but it is a rushed camera.
Nikon announced the Z7 in August 2018. Canon announced the R system in September 2018 with availability in October 2018. That is some feat to finish engineering/tooling and to manufacture the product in volume in two months, so I disagree that Canon only released the R in response to Nikon Zs because the engineering for the R already had to be finished to be widely available that quickly.

I think it is more likely that Canon had decided to release the R system around October 2018 years ago, but that the body development had more delays than the lenses. The R system launched with more lenses than the Panasonic or the Nikon, and again the Canon lenses were more widely available at launch. The software wasn't quite ready with eyeAF, so I wouldn't be surprised that it is updated when the RP launches (similar software build). There were also rumors that one of the EOS R bodies in development was killed off, and I think the Z7 might have caused Canon to do that to the higher spec'ed R camera. Nikon launched with two cameras, Panasonic launched with two cameras, and I think that Canon had originally planned to launch with two cameras as well... which would make sense because as fantastic as the RF lenses are, the 28-70 and 50 should go on a higher end body than the R. So I think that the R was always in Canon's original plan. It wasn't "rushed" but it definitely sits below the 5D4, although it is closer to the 5D4 than the 6D2.
 

Kit Lens Jockey

EOS 7D MK II
Nov 12, 2016
528
190
Yes I think they were ready on the hardware side to go out with the camera, but they seem to be struggling with the software side of it, as evidenced by the fact that the EOS R can't currently do a burst in silent mode, unlike basically every other mirrorless camera. Really I think the release date for the camera probably shouldn't have been until whenever they are going to come out with this major firmware update, but they decided to push it out probably for two reasons... Not wanting to leave people empty handed when Nikon had two cameras out, and the fact that the lens side of the business was all ready to go with the lenses, but obviously you can't announce or release lenses without a camera to use them on.

And I think that's why we're at the point we're at. Canon knows lenses. They've been making great ones for decades. The processing and software for full frame mirrorless is something they're still struggling with. So I think that's why we're at the point that we are of having one single camera released with a boat load of lenses either already released or about to be announced, many of them that out-class the only camera that's able to use them.
 
Mar 14, 2012
2,305
190
And I think that's why we're at the point we're at. Canon knows lenses. They've been making great ones for decades. The processing and software for full frame mirrorless is something they're still struggling with. So I think that's why we're at the point that we are of having one single camera released with a boat load of lenses either already released or about to be announced, many of them that out-class the only camera that's able to use them.
The R&D required to bring out a new camera line (time and money) is probably more than a lens. Companies do best when they can iterate on previous designs. The R represents a larger departure from what Canon sold previously. At least the EOS R system was much better at launch than the EOS M system.
 

Larsskv

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 12, 2015
770
192
Yes obviously all mirrorless cameras are essentially like a DSLR in live view. But I'm talking specifically about how close the EOS R is to a 5D4, technologically. Really all they had to do to make the EOS R is take the sensor and interface that already existed for the 5D4's live view mode, and stick it in a new body with an EVF. Dual pixel autofocus has been around for years on the 5D4. It's just getting put to good use in the EOS R.

Granted there are a few improvements related to making the "live view" function of the EOS R into a fully featured way to shoot rather than the side show that it's always been in DSLRs. But really, there isn't a whole lot that the EOS R is that the 5D4 isn't when it's in live view. I'm just saying I don't think the EOS R was that huge of an engineering undertaking, aside from making the new RF mount.

Regardless of how exactly how much the lenses cost, it just seems weird to have Canon coming out with all of these top end, professional lenses when the only camera there is to use them with is... A little less than professional.

I still say that this product rollout is not exactly how Canon wanted it to go. Seems like they're struggling with mirrorless camera tech and didn't want to come out with it quite as early as they were forced to by Nikon. But meanwhile, they know how to make good lenses all day long, so those are coming out in droves.
I have to disagree with your description of the AF function on the R vs the 5DIV. I own and shot both several times a week. The dual pixel AF on the R works much better than on the 5DIV, also when using EF lenses. Just try a moving subject in poor light, and it becomes very obvious that the difference is more than significant. Put the RF 50L on the R, and the advantage increases much, much more. I am getting difficult shots in focus at f1.2 at a high keeper rate, a keeper rate that I could only dream of with my former 1DXII.

An example of difficult shots is my 1 year old daughter sitting on a kind of bike (toy) that moves back and forth (like a rocking chair). She moves either back or forth for maybe 0,5 seconds each way. The light is quite dim, but the R + the RF50L in AI servo and face tracking nails her eyes in shot after shot at f1.2, at a distance of 1-1,5 meters. I didn’t have her attention for more than a few seconds, and I can say for certain, that if I had the 1DXII I would need a good portion of luck to get away with one shot in ok focus.

Add to that, that I could leave it to the camera to focus. I could look up at her and get her to smile while shooting.
 
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Viggo

EOS 5D SR
Dec 13, 2010
4,216
782
I have to disagree with your description of the AF function on the R vs the 5DIV. I own and shot both several times a week. The dual pixel AF on the R works much better than on the 5DIV, also when using EF lenses. Just try a moving subject in poor light, and it becomes very obvious that the difference is more than significant. Put the RF 50L on the R, and the advantage increases much, much more. I am getting difficult shots in focus at f1.2 at a high keeper rate, a keeper rate that I could only dream of with my former 1DXII.

An example of difficult shots is my 1 year old daughter sitting on a kind of bike (toy) that moves back and forth (like a rocking chair). She moves either back or forth for maybe 0,5 seconds each way. The light is quite dim, but the R + the RF50L in AI servo and face tracking nails her eyes in shot after shot at f1.2, at a distance of 1-1,5 meters. I didn’t have her attention for more than a few seconds, and I can say for certain, that if I had the 1DXII I would need a good portion of luck to get away with one shot in ok focus.

Add to that, that I could leave it to the camera to focus. I could look up at her and get her to smile while shooting.
1000% agreed, it’s as if I wrote it myself. It’s the exact same story on swings also.
 
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Kit Lens Jockey

EOS 7D MK II
Nov 12, 2016
528
190
I have to disagree with your description of the AF function on the R vs the 5DIV. I own and shot both several times a week. The dual pixel AF on the R works much better than on the 5DIV, also when using EF lenses. Just try a moving subject in poor light, and it becomes very obvious that the difference is more than significant. Put the RF 50L on the R, and the advantage increases much, much more. I am getting difficult shots in focus at f1.2 at a high keeper rate, a keeper rate that I could only dream of with my former 1DXII.

An example of difficult shots is my 1 year old daughter sitting on a kind of bike (toy) that moves back and forth (like a rocking chair). She moves either back or forth for maybe 0,5 seconds each way. The light is quite dim, but the R + the RF50L in AI servo and face tracking nails her eyes in shot after shot at f1.2, at a distance of 1-1,5 meters. I didn’t have her attention for more than a few seconds, and I can say for certain, that if I had the 1DXII I would need a good portion of luck to get away with one shot in ok focus.

Add to that, that I could leave it to the camera to focus. I could look up at her and get her to smile while shooting.
I really haven't used autofocus on the 5D4 in live view enough to comment on how well it works compared to the R. I was just saying that it's essentially the same focusing technology from the same sensor. Are all those cases you talked about with the 5D4 and 1DXii when using live view? I've just never known people to use those cameras in live view for anything high action or hard to track. Seems like it'd be kind of cumbersome compared to the viewfinder.
 

Viggo

EOS 5D SR
Dec 13, 2010
4,216
782
I really haven't used autofocus on the 5D4 in live view enough to comment on how well it works compared to the R. I was just saying that it's essentially the same focusing technology from the same sensor. Are all those cases you talked about with the 5D4 and 1DXii when using live view? I've just never known people to use those cameras in live view for anything high action or hard to track. Seems like it'd be kind of cumbersome compared to the viewfinder.
For me the comparison I agreed to was all VF focusing. The 1dx2 doesn’t have Servo in live view for stills. 1dx2 AF for swings etc can’t match the DPAF in the EOS R. Going off center with AF the gap becomes wider. Before I shot at 14 fps to try and get it anything. Now I take one .
 
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Larsskv

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 12, 2015
770
192
I really haven't used autofocus on the 5D4 in live view enough to comment on how well it works compared to the R. I was just saying that it's essentially the same focusing technology from the same sensor. Are all those cases you talked about with the 5D4 and 1DXii when using live view? I've just never known people to use those cameras in live view for anything high action or hard to track. Seems like it'd be kind of cumbersome compared to the viewfinder.
No, I would never use 1DXII or 5DIV in live view in a situation like I described. The viewfinder AF works much better in the DSLRs for any type of action. And that was my point, the dual pixel AF in the R works so good, that it is much better than DSLRs in a challenging situation like the one I described. But please note, I haven’t used the R for other types of action photography, such as sports or BIF. I don’t have the experience to claim that the AF in the R is better than a DSLR in such situations. (But I recall Viggo praising the R for shooting soccer with the 85L f1.4 IS.)
 

Normalnorm

EOS 7D MK II
Dec 25, 2012
527
134
Did they also intend to put out a camera that doesn't even do burst shooting in silent shutter mode without a firmware update like essentially every other good mirrorless camera can?

I maintain that Canon got caught out by Nikon's release, and had to push the EOS R out the door before it was really ready. The R isn't a bad camera, but it is a rushed camera.
I would note that the competition (including Sony) have had their share of SW shortfalls and bugs. So far Fuji is the one to beat in terms of SW and FW upgrades/updates. Let us hope that Canon will get there as well.

Not disappointed that the R was not a hero body. Had they brought hat out and flopped it would have been very costly to Canon. Nikon was stung by the pratfalls in their own AF performance and lack of second slot.
 

jdavidse

EOS T7i
Sep 13, 2012
58
34
that is exactly the problem in this EF to RF transition....
I was thinking about mapping a purchase strategy over the next few years for weddings. I currently own two 5DIVs and want to end up completely converted to RF down the road. The trick will be to buy the most beneficial lenses first. That can be defined as lenses that either save considerable weight or are a huge improvement over their counterparts. Assuming all of these rumored lenses get stellar reviews of course. Also since RF can't be used on the 5DIV, gotta be careful not to get caught without redundancy at certain focal lengths. I came up with something like this:

1. Buy 1 (unreleased) 5d R mount. Keep one 5DIV as backup
2. Buy RF 50, sell EF 50
3. Buy RF 70-200, sell EF 70-200
4. Buy RF 15-35, sell EF 35
5. Buy 2nd 5d R camera
6. Buy RF 24-70, sell EF 24-70
7. Buy RF 85, sell EF 85

That just leaves the 100 macro, which I'll probably leave alone for a while.
What I really love about Canon's strategy here is nearly every lens I want is either out already or about to be released. And just 6 months in! That blows my mind. This is why Canon is going to have strong support from working professionals
 

Kit Lens Jockey

EOS 7D MK II
Nov 12, 2016
528
190
No, I would never use 1DXII or 5DIV in live view in a situation like I described. The viewfinder AF works much better in the DSLRs for any type of action. And that was my point, the dual pixel AF in the R works so good, that it is much better than DSLRs in a challenging situation like the one I described. But please note, I haven’t used the R for other types of action photography, such as sports or BIF. I don’t have the experience to claim that the AF in the R is better than a DSLR in such situations. (But I recall Viggo praising the R for shooting soccer with the 85L f1.4 IS.)
Ok, well then you're missing the point I'm trying to make. I'm not debating the superiority of the old DSLR autofocus performance compared to the EOS R's on-sensor DPAF. I'm not debating how good or bad of a camera the R is. I'm only saying that it wasn't a very big undertaking, engineering-wise, especially hardware engineering-wise, because most of the underlying technology had already been around for years, in the form of the 5D4's sensor.

All they really did was make a 5D4 that's stuck in live view mode, added a few software features to make it a fully functioning shooting mode instead of the secondary mode it is in the 5D4, and added an EVF. And it shows from things like the camera's inability to keep a smooth video feed going to the EVF, and the fact that there's no burst mode in silent mode, that Canon doesn't seem to have the software and processing aspects of full frame mirrorless nailed down yet. They basically just gave us a 5D4 stuck in live view minus a lot of its controls and with poorer weather sealing, and for some reason are already releasing a whole slew of lenses for it. It's just kind of strange to go right to releasing a ton of top of the line lenses when the only camera you can use them with, while again, capable in most regards, is definitely not what most people would want from a camera they would buy such expensive lenses to use with.
 
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Kit Lens Jockey

EOS 7D MK II
Nov 12, 2016
528
190
I would note that the competition (including Sony) have had their share of SW shortfalls and bugs.
That's true, but the bugs combined with the somewhat slow performance of the camera (again, no smooth feed to the EVF, no burst in silent mode for right now) says to me that overall Canon was not quite ready to enter the market when they did.
 

Larsskv

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 12, 2015
770
192
Ok, well then you're missing the point I'm trying to make. I'm not debating the superiority of the old DSLR autofocus performance compared to the EOS R's on-sensor DPAF. I'm not debating how good or bad of a camera the R is. I'm only saying that it wasn't a very big undertaking, engineering-wise, especially hardware engineering-wise, because most of the underlying technology had already been around for years, in the form of the 5D4's sensor.

All they really did was make a 5D4 that's stuck in live view mode, added a few software features to make it a fully functioning shooting mode instead of the secondary mode it is in the 5D4, and added an EVF. And it shows from things like the camera's inability to keep a smooth video feed going to the EVF, and the fact that there's no burst mode in silent mode, that Canon doesn't seem to have the software and processing aspects of full frame mirrorless nailed down yet. They basically just gave us a 5D4 stuck in live view minus a lot of its controls and with poorer weather sealing, and for some reason are already releasing a whole slew of lenses for it. It's just kind of strange to go right to releasing a ton of top of the line lenses when the only camera you can use them with, while again, capable in most regards, is definitely not what most people would want from a camera they would buy such expensive lenses to use with.
And yet again, we disagree. Canon worked much harder making the R and RF mount than you seem to be aware of. You should read this interview with developers, and get more insights on the new system:

https://d25tv1xepz39hi.cloudfront.net/2018-09-05/files/EOS_R_An_Interview_with_the_Developers_.pdf

One thing you will see emphasized is the increase of communication between lens and camera. The R and lens communicates 40 times more data than the 5DIV, when both are in DPAF-mode.

Edit: If you have seen the tear down of the RF 50L, you should be aware of the extra electronics built into the new lenses. The differences between R and EF cameras go way beyond software improvements.
 
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