Canon U.S.A. Introduces Its First Two 8K Broadcast Lenses

sanj

EOS 5D MK IV
Jan 22, 2012
3,394
203
Yes, some might find it handy. As in a lot of photographers do not need 4K.

How hard was that to understand?
4k is not used by photographers. How hard was that to understand? Aware of a term - Videographers? Google it.
 

Antono Refa

EOS 6D MK II
Mar 26, 2014
929
174
4k is not used by photographers. How hard was that to understand? Aware of a term - Videographers? Google it.
Some photographers also shoot video, even 4K video. If you weren't a moron, you would have understood that before this post.
 

sanj

EOS 5D MK IV
Jan 22, 2012
3,394
203
Moron! Ah well. I went by what you said. You said, "photographer" and that makes it clear who the moron is.
So all good. Now you admitting we need 4k. It is obvious to me that you do not shoot video because even moron like you know the benefits of 4k when shooting video. But I forget you shoot kiddy birthday parties. LOL. Sure you do not need 4k. Carry on!
 

sanj

EOS 5D MK IV
Jan 22, 2012
3,394
203
I thought this discussion was over 4 years ago. I guess some people never step out of their caves.
 

RunAndGun

EOS RP
Dec 16, 2011
353
41
8k, sigh. Really, for almost everyone, 4K is a waste. I sit about 14 feet from my 61”1080p Tv, and I can only see a bit over 480 from that distance. In order to actually see the full 1080p resolution, I have to stand about 6 feet away. 4k means about 3 feet. 8k means about 18 inches.

isnt anyone paying attention to the angle of resolution a person can actually see? I suppose not, as Tv sales continue to drop, manufacturers continue to increase unneeded resolution, when studies have clearly shown that people prefer 1080p with wide band color to 4K with sRGB. And while color standards are DCI-P3 for 4K as opposed to sRGB for 1080p, most 4K sets can’t do more than sRGB.
Okay, and who’s fault is that that you’re sitting outside the proper viewing distance? Move closer or get a bigger screen.

Yes, I understand part of the point that you’re trying to make: that most people are not going to be close enough to or have big enough screens to see the difference in resolution. But regardless, it’s coming, at least for screen resolution. 4K sets are already the majority of what’s being made/sold on the consumer front and it won’t be too long before 8K is normal and supplants 4K screens. The move to 4K happened much faster than anyone anticipated. It’s just the way the manufacturing is moving.
 

RunAndGun

EOS RP
Dec 16, 2011
353
41
Moron! Ah well. I went by what you said. You said, "photographer" and that makes it clear who the moron is.
So all good. Now you admitting we need 4k. It is obvious to me that you do not shoot video because even moron like you know the benefits of 4k when shooting video. But I forget you shoot kiddy birthday parties. LOL. Sure you do not need 4k. Carry on!
“Photographer” isn’t just used to describe a stills shooter. MANY that shoot video/film are referred to and refer to themselves as photographers, also.
 

melgross

EOS 7D MK II
Nov 2, 2016
473
287
Ah, more lack of knowledge. Do you know how close you have to get to a screen to actually see detail? Apparently not.
 

melgross

EOS 7D MK II
Nov 2, 2016
473
287
Okay, and who’s fault is that that you’re sitting outside the proper viewing distance? Move closer or get a bigger screen.

Yes, I understand part of the point that you’re trying to make: that most people are not going to be close enough to or have big enough screens to see the difference in resolution. But regardless, it’s coming, at least for screen resolution. 4K sets are already the majority of what’s being made/sold on the consumer front and it won’t be too long before 8K is normal and supplants 4K screens. The move to 4K happened much faster than anyone anticipated. It’s just the way the manufacturing is moving.
So, I should sit 18 inches away from a 61” 8k screen? Or 3 feet from a 4K screen?
im planning on getting a new one at some point not that far away, and I understand very well that 4K is it. There’s is no longer a viable 2k choice, and I understand that. But even a 75”, which is about what I can put there, won’t make much difference.

its easy for you, with no idea of what my room is, or the audio/video system I use to just throw out the line of “move closer”, but that’s not helpful. To see 4K with clarity for all the detail (an individual pixel level is needed for that) I need a 200”+ size screen. That’s the way it is. 8 i requires a 400”+ screen.

its interesting that with photographers here claiming to “need” higher resolution in their cameras, to not understand the concept of viewing distance, is disturbing.
 

flip314

EOS RP
Sep 26, 2018
266
378
So, I should sit 18 inches away from a 61” 8k screen? Or 3 feet from a 4K screen?
im planning on getting a new one at some point not that far away, and I understand very well that 4K is it. There’s is no longer a viable 2k choice, and I understand that. But even a 75”, which is about what I can put there, won’t make much difference.

its easy for you, with no idea of what my room is, or the audio/video system I use to just throw out the line of “move closer”, but that’s not helpful. To see 4K with clarity for all the detail (an individual pixel level is needed for that) I need a 200”+ size screen. That’s the way it is. 8 i requires a 400”+ screen.

its interesting that with photographers here claiming to “need” higher resolution in their cameras, to not understand the concept of viewing distance, is disturbing.
I sit 18" away from a 50" screen (which I use as a computer monitor), and I notice a huge difference from the 4K resolution as compared to 1080p (even on my previous smaller 32" 1080p you could easily see pixels at that distance)... Not sure I'd notice 8K, but I do notice the downsampled chroma (enough that I'm going to upgrade to something better). Granted I'm mainly using it for productivity and not video, so it is a completely different situation than yours :)
 

jvillain

EOS 80D
Sep 29, 2018
129
91
Yes, some might find it handy. As in a lot of photographers do not need 4K.

How hard was that to understand?
When the customer says they wanted it delivered in 4K you shoot atleast 4K. How often do customers ask for 4K? More than 50% of the time now, since for years 4K TVs have been the standard. If it was only 25% of the time I would still own the gear becuase I can mark it up with out really doing any extra work. And we're just a small shop. If you are shooting for any one big like Netflix etc it is shoot 4K or go home with the exception they will some times make for Arri cameras.
 
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sanj

EOS 5D MK IV
Jan 22, 2012
3,394
203
4k is not shot necessarily to submit in 4k. Shooting in 4k and delivering in 2k has a huge advantage with grading and composition possibilities. And so funny to be discussing 2k/4k when even Iphone shoots on 4k and we are on a thread about 8k equipment.
 

sanj

EOS 5D MK IV
Jan 22, 2012
3,394
203
Okay, and who’s fault is that that you’re sitting outside the proper viewing distance? Move closer or get a bigger screen.

Yes, I understand part of the point that you’re trying to make: that most people are not going to be close enough to or have big enough screens to see the difference in resolution. But regardless, it’s coming, at least for screen resolution. 4K sets are already the majority of what’s being made/sold on the consumer front and it won’t be too long before 8K is normal and supplants 4K screens. The move to 4K happened much faster than anyone anticipated. It’s just the way the manufacturing is moving.
I do not think it happened faster than anyone anticipated. It happened gradually and many companies and consumers anticipated and adapted it. Bottom line: It works better and is not expensive, so it will be popular.
 

sanj

EOS 5D MK IV
Jan 22, 2012
3,394
203
When the customer says they wanted it delivered in 4K you shoot atleast 4K. How often do customers ask for 4K? More than 50% of the time now, since for years 4K TVs have been the standard. If it was only 25% of the time I would still own the gear becuase I can mark it up with out really doing any extra work. And we're just a small shop. If you are shooting for any one big like Netflix etc it is shoot 4K or go home with the exception they will some times make for Arri cameras.
Yes, sir. Actually more than 50%. It is in vogue and required by many, even if they do not understand it. They think if they ask for 4k, they get their monie's worth. They think shooting 4k is 'professional' Of course, people shooting a birthday party are not required. Just saying. (BUT if they were shooting it professionally, 4k would very likely come into consideration.)
 

melgross

EOS 7D MK II
Nov 2, 2016
473
287
I sit 18" away from a 50" screen (which I use as a computer monitor), and I notice a huge difference from the 4K resolution as compared to 1080p (even on my previous smaller 32" 1080p you could easily see pixels at that distance)... Not sure I'd notice 8K, but I do notice the downsampled chroma (enough that I'm going to upgrade to something better). Granted I'm mainly using it for productivity and not video, so it is a completely different situation than yours :)
It’s different for a computer monitor. We need to stay close, and even move to 10”, or even closer at times, for detail. But really, are you going to do that with a Tv? Most people put the Tv on, or right up to a wall, and their seat is back at the other wall, wherever it may be. I see people with 43” TVs sitting 12 feet, or more, away. Usually we’re stuck with a seating plan we have, regardless of where the Tv ends up. I planned my room out, and where I sit is as ideal, from a number of reasons.
 
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melgross

EOS 7D MK II
Nov 2, 2016
473
287
When the customer says they wanted it delivered in 4K you shoot atleast 4K. How often do customers ask for 4K? More than 50% of the time now, since for years 4K TVs have been the standard. If it was only 25% of the time I would still own the gear becuase I can mark it up with out really doing any extra work. And we're just a small shop. If you are shooting for any one big like Netflix etc it is shoot 4K or go home with the exception they will some times make for Arri cameras.
These days I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s not 75%. But that doesn’t mean it’s useful to the viewer. We all have had the experience when 1080 came out, and now with 4K, when going into a store and walking closer until we saw all the detail, and were surprised at just how close we needed to be to see that detail.
 
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Dantana

EOS RP
Jan 29, 2013
283
135
Los Angeles, CA
www.flickr.com
These days I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s not 75%. But that doesn’t mean it’s useful to the viewer. We all have had the experience when 1080 came out, and now with 4K, when going into a store and walking closer until we saw all the detail, and were surprised at just how close we needed to be to see that detail.
Sure, but it's not an 8K display. It's a tool for 8K acquisition. It's always better to acquire at a higher quality than what you exhibit at.
 
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HarryFilm

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 6, 2016
540
77
These types of lenses are what our parent company REALLY looks forward to!

I've used these types of super-zooms during football (i.e. soccer) and hockey games (i.e. on local cable station broadcasts of Major Junior teams which is one stop below pro hockey/soccer) and they are FANTASTIC! They have super smooth zoom and very little shake (i.e. internally stabilized) on arms with proper rocker switches and MANUAL focus/iris dials! The clarity of the Fujinon and Canon super-zooms is incredible BUT be prepared to pay between $120,000 US to $250,000 US PER LENS !!!

We purchase quite a few of these super-zoom even though we do have onsight optics grinding/polishing technology! We tend to build custom lenses ONLY for polycarbonate and acrylic (plastic) for our aerospace applications. For GLASS lenses, we tend to goto Zeiss, Schneider Kreuznach, Leica, Fujinon and Canon and lately they've ALL been getting up there in price. A set of Zeiss Master Primes is in the $260,000 US range. At one time we even offered to pay Panavision for their Primo lenses (they usually rent only!) and they privately said $850,000 might get them interested in selling rather than just renting! AND.....for that set, with us using 40+ c700 cameras that's quite a few tens of millions of dollars JUST for lenses!

These super-zooms, somewhere around $250,000 US, seem like a good compromise between lens SPEED (i.e. light gathering power) and zoom capability AND PRICE when compared to cinema lenses. I think my colleague already got a call from our Canon rep about these a few weeks ago since we tend to buy 10 to 20 of them at a time.

In terms of portability, we use 3-axis gyroscope platforms built into ball-domes and moveable robotic armature assemblies which we can bolt directly on planes, trains, automobiles, ships, subs, spacecraft and "other" vehicles. One nutcase we know built a Fujinon super-sports zoom onto a POWERED EXOSKELETON which bore the brunt of these incredibly HEAVY (100+ lbs) lens plus base setups so he could do Steadicam-like shots with a sports super-zoom!

---

In conclusion, these are the BEST pro sports zooms money can buy BUT you're getting into 6-figure price categories!

.
 

melgross

EOS 7D MK II
Nov 2, 2016
473
287
These types of lenses are what our parent company REALLY looks forward to!

I've used these types of super-zooms during football (i.e. soccer) and hockey games (i.e. on local cable station broadcasts of Major Junior teams which is one stop below pro hockey/soccer) and they are FANTASTIC! They have super smooth zoom and very little shake (i.e. internally stabilized) on arms with proper rocker switches and MANUAL focus/iris dials! The clarity of the Fujinon and Canon super-zooms is incredible BUT be prepared to pay between $120,000 US to $250,000 US PER LENS !!!

We purchase quite a few of these super-zoom even though we do have onsight optics grinding/polishing technology! We tend to build custom lenses ONLY for polycarbonate and acrylic (plastic) for our aerospace applications. For GLASS lenses, we tend to goto Zeiss, Schneider Kreuznach, Leica, Fujinon and Canon and lately they've ALL been getting up there in price. A set of Zeiss Master Primes is in the $260,000 US range. At one time we even offered to pay Panavision for their Primo lenses (they usually rent only!) and they privately said $850,000 might get them interested in selling rather than just renting! AND.....for that set, with us using 40+ c700 cameras that's quite a few tens of millions of dollars JUST for lenses!

These super-zooms, somewhere around $250,000 US, seem like a good compromise between lens SPEED (i.e. light gathering power) and zoom capability AND PRICE when compared to cinema lenses. I think my colleague already got a call from our Canon rep about these a few weeks ago since we tend to buy 10 to 20 of them at a time.

In terms of portability, we use 3-axis gyroscope platforms built into ball-domes and moveable robotic armature assemblies which we can bolt directly on planes, trains, automobiles, ships, subs, spacecraft and "other" vehicles. One nutcase we know built a Fujinon super-sports zoom onto a POWERED EXOSKELETON which bore the brunt of these incredibly HEAVY (100+ lbs) lens plus base setups so he could do Steadicam-like shots with a sports super-zoom!

---

In conclusion, these are the BEST pro sports zooms money can buy BUT you're getting into 6-figure price categories!

.
From what I recall, Canon has had about 75% of that market. That is, broadcast.
 

HarryFilm

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 6, 2016
540
77
From what I recall, Canon has had about 75% of that market. That is, broadcast.

It seems to be a regional preference as to Fujinon vs Canon for B4 mount (2/3rds inch and larger) sports zooms. Some stadiums like Fujinon and some like Canon. I can work with either as my MAIN CONCERN is the placement and size of the MANUAL iris/focus dials/rockers and the zoom-in/zoom-out rocker switches. In sports broadcast I am all MANUAL operations oriented and only a FEW sports zoom camera operators go for auto focus or auto iris modes.

OUTSIDE of sports, I've hooked up our Fujinon and Canon sports zooms to the underside of wings or onto the bow of a ship and within the underbelly of a Tier-4 HALE aerospace-craft and gotten FANTASTIC 4k imagery! Kinda like a WESCAM system but BIGGER with multi-axis gyroscopic stabilization!!!

They TRULY ARE some of the BEST lenses money can buy but OMG i've seen the purchase orders and their prices are an eye watering six figures! To think in that smallish container is $10 million dollars worth of glass just curdles the mind of our insurance company!

.

Good thing it ain't my money!

.