Canon will release four new full-frame cameras in 2020 [CR2]

Danglin52

Wildlife Shooter
Aug 8, 2018
147
116
Since I have a 7DII (but use mostly 5DsR) for birding but I am thinking about getting 90D sometime in the future can you please clarify a little more? Like: Which kind of lenses did you use? (I use 100-400 but mostly 400DOII and 500II) Was the AF inconsistent in high fps AI servo cases mostly?

Any info would be welcome...
I had my 1dx II with me for my 200-400, so the 100-400 II stayed on the 90d for most of the trip. I did do some shooting with the 70-200 f4 II and 200-400, but nothing exciting. I was shooting in servo, with single point / zone using backbitten focus (which I always use). If you had an animal moving quick and went into a 8-10 shot burst, about frame 7 or 8 it would loose focus. I don't typically shoot anything longer than 8-10 and that is when something is really moving or I want to capture movement. It did seem to find it's way back after several miss-focused shots if I held the burst. This was in wide open spaces in YNP with no trees or high grass to grab focus. I will say the image and high ISO were much better than anything I ever got with my 7d /7d II. I really wanted to like the camera, so I gave it every chance. The trip was end September / beginning of October 2019 right after the camera was released.
 
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mppix

EOS T7i
Feb 13, 2018
98
64
I think there is a chance that Canon is going to have two distinct lines. Ef-m for crop, RF for full frame.
Makes sense but there can still be an APS-C R body in addition to the EF-M system, where the latter is somewhere between the R and powershot in cost and size.
 

SteveC

M6 mk II
Sep 3, 2019
562
394
Makes sense but there can still be an APS-C R body in addition to the EF-M system, where the latter is somewhere between the R and powershot in cost and size.
There COULD.

But I strongly suspect all of you pining for such a thing will be disappointed, forever.
 

Adam Shutter Bug

I'm New Here
Jan 10, 2020
10
5
As one of the EOS R early adopters it has been a great camera. However Canon has short changed it in many areas. The EOS R2 looks good spec wise but almost feels entry level again compared to what Sony is producing. Canon needs a camera that can compete with the A74 with image size and the A92 with performance. A true Wildlife and Action mirrorless camera.
 

Joules

EOS 7D MK II
Jul 16, 2017
619
577
Hamburg, Germany
What you wrote is broadly true. The real benefits of mirrorless are felt with wider angle designs.
I wonder if the idea that mirrorless helps only wide lenses will go away once we see more RF lenses. It isn't true anyway as the removal of the mirror box already is a big benefit for large aperture lenses of all focal lengths.

Sony has a poor mount and therefore they are a bad example of what can be achieved. And Nikon only just started using a wide mount. Maybe Canon will surprise us, given their vast experience with the EF Mount and its restrictions. At least I don't see them sharing the opinion that the longer lenses won't improve much.

To quote the Canon RF white paper:

"The new RF mount makes possible greater lens design flexibilities:
1. Large diameter rear lens elements that are much closer to the full frame image sensor — enhancing overall optical performance (in particular, tighter control over optical
aberrations at image extremities)
2. Lenses having the same specifications for focal length and maximum aperture as current EF
mount lenses — but having significantly higher image quality — within the same size and weight
3. High optical performance, large aperture (F1.2) prime lenses for full frame cameras
4. Zoom lenses of higher brightness with constant aperture over their focal ranges — while still modest in size and weight

The following section is intended to convey the critical importance of back focus distance and rear lens
diameter on the overall optical performance of a given lens."

It's not just about the distance of the last element. It is also about its size - which Canon claims they can make much bigger now.

With such advancements on lens design and the ability to balance a lenses weaknesses with software like they did on the 24-240mm, it seems plausible to say that APS-C cameras will be limited to only the smallest of cameras (M line).

What people have to consider is this:

On EF going from APS-C to FF required a bigger sensor, a bigger mirror, a bigger shutter stronger motors for the mirror and shutter, a bigger optical viewfinder and in most cases a higher quality one.

That's a lot of components that need to scale up and add to the cost. With mirrorless, you can share the same EVF or even drop it completely. There's no larger optical components. There is no mirror and no larger motors. There might not even be a shutter, if Canon thinks they can get away with an eshutter only camera...

If that's the direction Canon is going it makes sense to me to keep the RF mount pure and not muddle it's appeal with compromised crop lenses and APS-C bodies that are incompatible with EF-M and confuse the market.
 
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AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
6,366
4,559
I had my 1dx II with me for my 200-400, so the 100-400 II stayed on the 90d for most of the trip. I did do some shooting with the 70-200 f4 II and 200-400, but nothing exciting. I was shooting in servo, with single point / zone using backbitten focus (which I always use). If you had an animal moving quick and went into a 8-10 shot burst, about frame 7 or 8 it would loose focus. I don't typically shoot anything longer than 8-10 and that is when something is really moving or I want to capture movement. It did seem to find it's way back after several miss-focused shots if I held the burst. This was in wide open spaces in YNP with no trees or high grass to grab focus. I will say the image and high ISO were much better than anything I ever got with my 7d /7d II. I really wanted to like the camera, so I gave it every chance. The trip was end September / beginning of October 2019 right after the camera was released.
Your experience coincides with what I have found and reported here since last September. We should not expect the AF of a $7000 1D series on a $1000 xxD. The 90D is a great choice for a nature hike or safari attached to a 100-400mm II (or a 400mm DO II) in reasonable light, and I use it for that regularly. It aids very good reach and will give a good keeper rate for predictably moving birds that are not flying too fast. But, its AF is not as fast or as consistent as a 5DIV, which I have tended to for BIF or when faster AF is required. There is currently or maybe even for the long term no one camera or one manufacturer that does everything for all customers. Canon chose not to make an APS-C using the AF module from its upper ranges of bodies. Nikon did so successfully with the D500, but I don't know if it's an economic success. Many here on CR shoot across manufacturers, choosing different makers for their different activities. I wish Canon would have put out a true 7DII replacement. I certainly don't regret buying the 90D but I am one of many who would have paid twice the cost to have its IQ with a top rate AF module rather than the recycled 80D one.
 
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degos

EOS RP
Mar 20, 2015
221
147
What I don't understand is why people say that the RF mount may not necessarily be as much benefit to telephoto or super telephoto as to wide angle.
Because Canon themselves said that.

As to 'better' glass, they could make an extending 70-200 2.8IS IV for EF that would be every bit as good as the RF version. But that would eliminate the upgrade incentive, so they don't. The mark III superwhites show what the combination of EF and the latest lens technology can achieve, but that won't be repeated for EF in the future.
 
Aug 1, 2019
3
2
The successor to the 5Ds was canceled and there is no 5DV in sight. I have started selling a few of my Canon lenses, and while I am going to keep some, all my purchases now are for either the D850, the A7R3 or the 645Z. Still, I am upset that Canon is not releasing a high megapixel DSLR with better dynamic range than the 5Ds... F*ck Canon! I hope they go bankrupt!
 

Kit.

EOR R
Apr 25, 2011
1,700
1,049
The successor to the 5Ds was canceled and there is no 5DV in sight. I have started selling a few of my Canon lenses, and while I am going to keep some, all my purchases now are for either the D850, the A7R3 or the 645Z. Still, I am upset that Canon is not releasing a high megapixel DSLR with better dynamic range than the 5Ds... F*ck Canon! I hope they go bankrupt!
Shouldn't you also buy Fuji GFX100?
 

tron

EOS 5D SR
Nov 8, 2011
4,444
703
Ha ha according to previous posts you have them so one of the two posts is not true.

This is a 2019 post
I, for one, would buy it if it were an SLR, but I am not buying into the R system. I am happy with my A7R3 and with my D850. I rather get the A7R4.
And this is the 2020
The successor to the 5Ds was canceled and there is no 5DV in sight. I have started selling a few of my Canon lenses, and while I am going to keep some, all my purchases now are for either the D850, the A7R3 or the 645Z. Still, I am upset that Canon is not releasing a high megapixel DSLR with better dynamic range than the 5Ds... F*ck Canon! I hope they go bankrupt!
However I share your feelings and wish about 5DsRMkII. I want one too (actually two!)
 
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Quarkcharmed

EOS 5DMkIV
Feb 14, 2018
853
689
Australia
www.michaelborisenko.com
Never thought of downsampling to reduce blur to be honest. Either way, I’d still rather have a lower MP count if it meant better high iso performance.
In the practical sense, 90D has more megapixels than 80D, better DR and better low light performance. Also better autofocus and higher fps. So it's better in literally all important areas for wildlife, technically there's no reason to complain about higher megapixels.
 

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
6,366
4,559
In the practical sense, 90D has more megapixels than 80D, better DR and better low light performance. Also better autofocus and higher fps. So it's better in literally all important areas for wildlife, technically there's no reason to complain about higher megapixels.
It has the same DR and low light performance as the 80D
and what appears to be the same AF module. I bought it for the Mpx, the 10fps, point focus and excellent mirrorless performance in LV. It's a very nice piece of kit that could be even better. Remember that the low light performance is the same as the 80D only when printed or viewed to the same size, but not per pixel. A 1000x1000px grid on the 90D would have worse noise than a 1000x1000 on the 80D, for example.
 
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Quarkcharmed

EOS 5DMkIV
Feb 14, 2018
853
689
Australia
www.michaelborisenko.com
Very strange. I remembered I checked the same diagram and 90D was better than 80D. Now it's not. Or I was checking it against something else, not 80D.
Anyway, that means I was wrong, 90D isn't better than 80D in every sensor spec.

It has the same DR and low light performance as the 80D
and what appears to be the same AF module. I bought it for the Mpx, the 10fps, point focus and excellent mirrorless performance in LV. It's a very nice piece of kit that could be even better. Remember that the low light performance is the same as the 80D only when printed or viewed to the same size, but not per pixel. A 1000x1000px grid on the 90D would have worse noise than a 1000x1000 on the 80D, for example.
 

CanonFanBoy

Really O.K. Boomer
Jan 28, 2015
4,703
2,624
Irving, Texas
The successor to the 5Ds was canceled and there is no 5DV in sight. I have started selling a few of my Canon lenses, and while I am going to keep some, all my purchases now are for either the D850, the A7R3 or the 645Z. Still, I am upset that Canon is not releasing a high megapixel DSLR with better dynamic range than the 5Ds... F*ck Canon! I hope they go bankrupt!
Ahhhh... the rare eclectic troll. :rolleyes:
 
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canonnews

EOS 7D MK II
Dec 27, 2017
543
786
Canada
www.canonnews.com
Makes sense but there can still be an APS-C R body in addition to the EF-M system, where the latter is somewhere between the R and powershot in cost and size.
I think you're going to see the RF line revert to what it was with film, sans the IX bastard child.

If canon can do a sub $800 full frame camera, they'll do the entire line with full frame. and why not?

Canon has a HUGE advantage over the other companies, they can manufacturer in Japan - and it's almost entirely all automated. Especially for something like a mirrorless camera.
 
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Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,262
1,920
Canada
Very strange. I remembered I checked the same diagram and 90D was better than 80D. Now it's not. Or I was checking it against something else, not 80D.
Anyway, that means I was wrong, 90D isn't better than 80D in every sensor spec.
It all depends on how you look at it.
Essentialy, the quantum efficiency of all the latest cameras is the same within a few percent. The days of big differences between models and manufacturers is over. Everyone is within a half stop.

With the same amount of photons hitting the sensor, pixel size becomes very important. The smaller the pixel, the less light hits it, and the lower the DR you get. As an extreme example, look at a 10Mpixel and a 40Mpixel sensor.... The 10M sensor will have 4 times the light hitting each pixel, and as a result will have 2 stops better DR. HOWEVER, you can take the 40M image and resample it to 10M and end up with the same DR.

More pixels is a tradeoff between resolution and pixel quality, except with the greater resolution you can decide in post production if you want to keep the resolution, resample for quality, or a combination of the two. You have more total information.