Canon's Next Full Frame Camera [CR2]

mathino

EOS RP
Apr 18, 2011
253
0
LetTheRightLensIn said:
Orion said:
I can't believe how this is actually being taken as a serious option FOR ANYBODY. Over $2000 with taxes . . if you are a serious photographer, then get a mkIII and mean it. The laod of crap they saturate tyhe market witrh these days is amazing . . . thanks to the sheep out there. And thank god for plastic, and $2000 FF cameras too . . . profit grab, nothing else. So, I guess the 5DmkII will be around $1000 now.
$1500 extra is still a lot to many people

the main problem is not so much this camera but the rumored D600 which might have a much better sensor and an important extra fps and perhaps better AF for perhaps same price
...my main questions are:

Does majority of users need those extra features ?
Are they gonna use every single AF point ?
Is 19 point AF from 7D that crappy that it wont take along with Nikon AF ?
Isnt 7D AF 19 cross-type ? Rumored D600 is 9 cross type points...

My personal thoughts:
1.) 22mpx is far enough for most of people
2.) Rumored Nikon AF: 39 AF points (with an option of 11 AF points), 9 cross-type AF points - if Canon will fit 7D-like AF there could be 19 cross-type points. I prefer 19 point that are working just right. I havent heard of Nikon AF options if there is this cluster type - but its a great feature.
3.) Most of Rebel/xxD have used close to 5 fps - so 4 seams reasonable. And it wont cut into 5D Mk III sales.
4.) Most of peoble upgrading to FF want low-light performance and DoF - not high FPS speed. I think that combo of 7D and this "rumored" camera will make a nice kit. If you want allaround camera - you can just buy 5D Mk III - seems pretty clear to me. Would be nice if this new camera will use the same battery as 7D.

...so there would be: 5D/6D/9D/whateverD - entry FF, 5D Mk III advanced FF, rumored 5D-X - high mpx body and 1D-X - pro FF sports body. Plenty of options to choose and fit your needs.

Do not expect 36 Mpx, 61 point AF, 10 fps, ISO 100-51200 native for 1500 USD.

If you dont have cash for upgrade right now - save for it - or buy used.

...and bottom line: high-speced body doesnt make better photographer ;) It is always about the way you see it and how you can use you current equipment.
 

awinphoto

EOR R
Aug 26, 2010
2,090
0
www.reno-photography.com
mathino said:
...my main questions are:

Does majority of users need those extra features ?
Are they gonna use every single AF point ?
Is 19 point AF from 7D that crappy that it wont take along with Nikon AF ?
Isnt 7D AF 19 cross-type ? Rumored D600 is 9 cross type points...

My personal thoughts:
1.) 22mpx is far enough for most of people
2.) Rumored Nikon AF: 39 AF points (with an option of 11 AF points), 9 cross-type AF points - if Canon will fit 7D-like AF there could be 19 cross-type points. I prefer 19 point that are working just right. I havent heard of Nikon AF options if there is this cluster type - but its a great feature.
3.) Most of Rebel/xxD have used close to 5 fps - so 4 seams reasonable. And it wont cut into 5D Mk III sales.
4.) Most of peoble upgrading to FF want low-light performance and DoF - not high FPS speed. I think that combo of 7D and this "rumored" camera will make a nice kit. If you want allaround camera - you can just buy 5D Mk III - seems pretty clear to me. Would be nice if this new camera will use the same battery as 7D.
It's up to the individual user how many if any of the points will be used... Up until the 5d3/1dx came out, the 7d was regarded to have the second best AF system in Canon's line-up. It's not a crappy system, but takes some learning curve to master, as did many 5d3 users learned when they switched from the 5d2 to the 5d3. And yes, all 19 points for the 7d are all cross type. As for your thoughts/opinions, I think your right on for the most part.
 
C

Canon-F1

Guest
Does majority of users need those extra features ?
great and why don´t we just all buy a used 5D... i think it´s good enough for most here.

;)

that is NO real argument.. no matter how often it is repeated.

i think i don´t need most of the new features the 5D MK3 offers... not for the price tag.
that is why i stick to my 5D MK2 for a while.

but if canon wants my money they have to give me more for my money.
more then this new entry level FF camera. that´s all im saying
 

mathino

EOS RP
Apr 18, 2011
253
0
crasher8 said:
Oh I see…..I'm not a 'serious' photographer unless I go into 'serious' debt!

The 2k price point is perfect and not one being used by Canon at the moment. You have a big jump from the 7D to a 5D mk2 and let's not get into the size of the jump from a 7D to a mk3. Once again, some of us have budgets. I for one am liking the specs. Not loving but liking.
You can be a more-or-less serious photographer with any camera. Camera type/line is not a measurment of seriousness (my opinion).

...I think that 2k price rage is a good one. As Ive written in my longer post - everything depends on persons needs. If you want both speed and low-light performance - you can choose for 2 bodies (7D and 5D Mk II) = which roughly equals to price of 5D Mk III that is (I think) all around camera.

Im not a sports shooter so I would choose this rumored body if it comes true. 5D Mk III is far beyond my reach as an amateur and this would be a perfect camera for my needs :)
 

awinphoto

EOR R
Aug 26, 2010
2,090
0
www.reno-photography.com
daniemare said:
awinphoto said:
Dylan777 said:
AdamJ said:
AJ said:
I'm very excited by the news, happy that it's CR2 and not just a wild rumor.

- I'm excited about a plastic body. I'm a traveler and hiker, and every gram counts.
- Same price as 5D2, but it'll have vastly better AF, a newer sensor, and it'll have digic5.
- If the price starts at $2k at launch, it'll only go downward from there on

I wonder if the new lens will be 28-135/3.5-5.6 mk2 STM?

This might just be the camera that'll have me switch from crop to FF. But then I'll have to buy new UWA and fisheye lenses :-\
Another enthusiastic target buyer. Perhaps Canon have got it right.
I agreed.

FF sensor + 19points AF = enough for enthusiastic shooter to jump from crop to FF.
awww hell, the 5d2 AF was so terrible I would have gotten the 5d3 even if it only had the 19 pt 7d AF system... the 61pt system now is just gravy to me. Horses for courses, a 5d2 shooter not wanting to shell out $3500 for the 5d3, and get improved AF again, more high ISO, better sensor and technology... all for under $2000 (supposedly)... to me that's a no-brainer, but what do I know.
I am also one of those target buyers very excited about this.

I was just wondering, back in Feb 2012 when I wrote a post about the cost of FF and suggested that there is space on the market for a 70D like body (60D + Digic 5), 7D AF and a FF sensor, many commented that you couldn't just drop that 7D AF in over a FF sensor. It seems that this is exactly what will happen. So do they need to change anything or not?
I vaguely remember a question like yours a few months ago... The 19 Points may need to be spread out as they were designed for the 7d sensor/mirror/assembly... A full frame sensor is bigger and so if kept the same, it would be very clustered... perhaps even more so than the current 5d2 cluster... But in theory, they could keep the same overall design of the 7d system, spread out the points to be proportional or at least close, and call it good.
 

mathino

EOS RP
Apr 18, 2011
253
0
awinphoto said:
mathino said:
...my main questions are:

Does majority of users need those extra features ?
Are they gonna use every single AF point ?
Is 19 point AF from 7D that crappy that it wont take along with Nikon AF ?
Isnt 7D AF 19 cross-type ? Rumored D600 is 9 cross type points...

My personal thoughts:
1.) 22mpx is far enough for most of people
2.) Rumored Nikon AF: 39 AF points (with an option of 11 AF points), 9 cross-type AF points - if Canon will fit 7D-like AF there could be 19 cross-type points. I prefer 19 point that are working just right. I havent heard of Nikon AF options if there is this cluster type - but its a great feature.
3.) Most of Rebel/xxD have used close to 5 fps - so 4 seams reasonable. And it wont cut into 5D Mk III sales.
4.) Most of peoble upgrading to FF want low-light performance and DoF - not high FPS speed. I think that combo of 7D and this "rumored" camera will make a nice kit. If you want allaround camera - you can just buy 5D Mk III - seems pretty clear to me. Would be nice if this new camera will use the same battery as 7D.
It's up to the individual user how many if any of the points will be used... Up until the 5d3/1dx came out, the 7d was regarded to have the second best AF system in Canon's line-up. It's not a crappy system, but takes some learning curve to master, as did many 5d3 users learned when they switched from the 5d2 to the 5d3. And yes, all 19 points for the 7d are all cross type. As for your thoughts/opinions, I think your right on for the most part.
I agree :) Its individual decision. Ive had an opportunity to borrow my friends 7D and I think its great. Sure, it takes some time to master and learn how to use it to get the best results - but it happens every time when something new comes out. Some of people master new tech (and also learn its usage and limitations), some will still complain its not enough - they will never be happy ;)
 

mathino

EOS RP
Apr 18, 2011
253
0
Canon-F1 said:
Does majority of users need those extra features ?
great and why don´t we just all buy a used 5D... i think it´s good enough for most here.

;)

that is NO real argument.. no matter how often it is repeated.

i think i don´t need most of the new features the 5D MK3 offers... not for the price tag.
that is why i stick to my 5D MK2 for a while.

but if canon wants my money they have to give me more for my money.
more then this new entry level FF camera. that´s all im saying
I see your point ;) Im writing this as a Rebel user so this is why I stated it. Sure, if I would be a 5D Mk II user then this camera would not gain my interest (after seeing rumored specs). I would want something better with new stuff not just upgraded AF with platic-only body.

...and yes, I would like to have 5D Mk III, but as an ethusiast its way too pricy and I know I wont use it to that extend to pay for extra stuff.
 

DanielW

EOS RP
Mar 13, 2012
255
0
41
RC said:
The more I think about this rumor, this could could work out very nicely for me assuming the specs are within my needs. This might just be the perfect camera for those in my shoes or on a limited budget. (Obviously if funds were unlimited I would already have a 5D3.)

Since I have a 7D and plan to keep it and get a FF in addition, I will have the reach and FPS with the 7D when I need it.

A FF (I'll call it a 6D) will be my landscape, portrait, and low light body. Assuming the specs are at least these:
- same (or better) sensor than the 5DII
- 7D or better AF
- AFMA
- form factor no smaller than the 7D
- 100% view finder
- prefer metal body (may compromise)
- weather sealing (at least that of 7D)
- swivel screen--don't want
- pop up flash--don't want unless its a radio trigger

All my lens are EF Ls so everything is line.

If this doesn't work out then I'm back to looking at a 5D2 or 5D3--but a 5D3 has to come down or I'll have to go used.

Sorry, I know, this is an extension off a previous post, just optimistic that this might be my solution.
Why is a pop-up flash a bad thing?
 

mathino

EOS RP
Apr 18, 2011
253
0
DanielW said:
RC said:
The more I think about this rumor, this could could work out very nicely for me assuming the specs are within my needs. This might just be the perfect camera for those in my shoes or on a limited budget. (Obviously if funds were unlimited I would already have a 5D3.)

Since I have a 7D and plan to keep it and get a FF in addition, I will have the reach and FPS with the 7D when I need it.

A FF (I'll call it a 6D) will be my landscape, portrait, and low light body. Assuming the specs are at least these:
- same (or better) sensor than the 5DII
- 7D or better AF
- AFMA
- form factor no smaller than the 7D
- 100% view finder
- prefer metal body (may compromise)
- weather sealing (at least that of 7D)
- swivel screen--don't want
- pop up flash--don't want unless its a radio trigger

All my lens are EF Ls so everything is line.

If this doesn't work out then I'm back to looking at a 5D2 or 5D3--but a 5D3 has to come down or I'll have to go used.

Sorry, I know, this is an extension off a previous post, just optimistic that this might be my solution.
Why is a pop-up flash a bad thing?
If they manage to fit in a large enough bright prism then not. But personally, I wont use it much. I would rather use my 430 EX II.

Control over wireless flashes would be a welcome feature but I doubt there will be such feature in it.
 
A

AdamJ

Guest
mathino said:
Control over wireless flashes would be a welcome feature but I doubt there will be such feature in it.
Even Rebels have that.
 

DanielW

EOS RP
Mar 13, 2012
255
0
41
mathino said:
DanielW said:
RC said:
The more I think about this rumor, this could could work out very nicely for me assuming the specs are within my needs. This might just be the perfect camera for those in my shoes or on a limited budget. (Obviously if funds were unlimited I would already have a 5D3.)

Since I have a 7D and plan to keep it and get a FF in addition, I will have the reach and FPS with the 7D when I need it.

A FF (I'll call it a 6D) will be my landscape, portrait, and low light body. Assuming the specs are at least these:
- same (or better) sensor than the 5DII
- 7D or better AF
- AFMA
- form factor no smaller than the 7D
- 100% view finder
- prefer metal body (may compromise)
- weather sealing (at least that of 7D)
- swivel screen--don't want
- pop up flash--don't want unless its a radio trigger

All my lens are EF Ls so everything is line.

If this doesn't work out then I'm back to looking at a 5D2 or 5D3--but a 5D3 has to come down or I'll have to go used.

Sorry, I know, this is an extension off a previous post, just optimistic that this might be my solution.
Why is a pop-up flash a bad thing?
If they manage to fit in a large enough bright prism then not. But personally, I wont use it much. I would rather use my 430 EX II.

Control over wireless flashes would be a welcome feature but I doubt there will be such feature in it.
Oh, now I see it. Things can get crowded up there...
Nikon seems to have no problem with it on their D800; hopefully Canon will find a way too, as currently I only have one flash... :)
 

Ricku

EOS 7D MK II
May 20, 2011
493
0
awinphoto said:
To all complaining about no new sensor... do you really expect canon to put a BETTER sensor and an IMPROVED sensor in a camera BELOW it's beloved 5d3? Really?
Well, Canon still don't have a sensor that can compete with Nikon's D800 sensor. Their beloved 5D3 (a.k.a 5D2.5) certainly failed at that.

So yeah, they should make and launch a better sensor as soon as posible.
 
C

Canon-F1

Guest
Ricku said:
So yeah, they should make and launch a better sensor as soon as posible.

for me this is like back then when microsoft released VISTA.. just wait for win7. :D
 

mathino

EOS RP
Apr 18, 2011
253
0
AdamJ said:
mathino said:
Control over wireless flashes would be a welcome feature but I doubt there will be such feature in it.
Even Rebels have that.
I think many of its possible future users would be glad for that feature :) I would, from certain point of view. It was just my opinion...

As my main wireless flash triggers Im using Pixel Kings - radio is radio.

...if they would include their RT system as build-in - THAT I would call a welcome feature ;)
 

kdw75

EOS M50
Feb 7, 2012
32
0
I like all the rumored specs, but it needs to be at least the size and build quality of the 7D. Then it would be worth about $1899.

The way it is rumored to be the price needs to be down around $1299.

When you are paying that much a magnesium body that is somewhat weather sealed is expected.
 
This is exactly what I've been hoping for pretty much. I saw people saying that Canon would probably make this a Rebel body which would completely put me off buying it.

I wouldn't have a problem if the body was similar to my 60D (but without the stupid articulating screen). I've wanted to make the jump to full frame for about 6 months now but as a gig photographer I just don't think the 5D II would be that great for me, I couldn't live with the centre AF point only. This camera would be near perfect.
 
T

takoman46

Guest
The rumored specs have me a bit confused...

For $2000 you get:

22mp 5D3 sensor?

19 point AF - Ok, this sounds reasonable.

4fps - Makes sense.

ISO 100-51200 - Taking into consideration that this camera will have a 5D3 sensor; wouldn't this mean that ISO performance at ISO 51200 would be the same as 5D3? Canon just eliminated ISO 102400... but 102400 is unusable anyway... Logic tells me that this new entry level FF camera will not perform the same as a 5D3... but then that would mean that Canon just de-tuned the heck out of the 5D3 sensor and it's capabilities... Lose money lol

3"LCD - Ok

Smaller than 5D Mark II - If it's smaller, than does this mean that there is no quick reference display on the top of the body? Or does this simply mean that it may be "slightly" smaller than a 5D2? Maybe the size of a 60D? In which case, it being the size of a 60D is pretty irrelevant information since it's not that much smaller than a 5D2...

More plastic than metal in the construction - So this camera will be packed with what sounds like great performance features but will be built like a toy?

Pop-up flash - Ok

$1999 USD at launch - Ok

Launched with new non-L full frame kit lens - Whatever

Compatible with full frame STM lenses - Whatever

So in a nutshell, for $1500 less than a 5D Mark 3 you get the same sensor and ISO performance (up to ISO 51200), a crappier AF system, and 2fps less continuous shooting speed, but have to live with the thing being built like a toy... On that note, for $100-$200 less than a 5D Mark 2 you get a way better sensor, ISO performance, AF system, and 1fps more continuous shooting speed, but have to live with the thing being built like a toy because even the 5D Mark II was mostly metal in construction. Does anyone else think these specs don't seem realistic?
 

mathino

EOS RP
Apr 18, 2011
253
0
kdw75 said:
I like all the rumored specs, but it needs to be at least the size and build quality of the 7D. Then it would be worth about $1899.

The way it is rumored to be the price needs to be down around $1299.

When you are paying that much a magnesium body that is somewhat weather sealed is expected.
Forgive me if Im wrong but isnt 7D more weather-sealed as 5D Mk II ? Both of them have magnesium alloy chassis.

5D Mk II seals:
http://a.img-dpreview.com/reviews/CanonEOS5DMarkII/Images/seals.jpg

7D seals:
http://a.img-dpreview.com/reviews/CanonEOS7D/Images/sealing.jpg

If they make it same as 7D body it would be actualy close to 5D Mk III sealing.

Its just a rumor, price is rumored...as the rugedness/build and sealing is ;)