Congratulations Canon to another great Camera release!!

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GMCPhotographics said:
I think most of the DSLR innovation is now done.

Are you applying for a job as a Canon exec :-> ? ...

There's no end of features and ideas, for software just look at everything Magic Lantern has to offer (and the things they cannot do due to Canon fw constraints). How about an switchable ovf/evf with all the information it could offer (focus peaking for mf in the vf)? How about really smart af tracking across the whole frame ("Please track the player with the number 8", "Please always automatically focus the eyes")? How about 1/500 x-sync like on the original 1d?

roblem is, Canon is driven by product differentiation, max. profit (lowest cost & highest prices) and they are so conservative they probably don't think about real innovations, even not with a cpu as fast as their digic5 (or 6).
 
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Marsu42 said:
GMCPhotographics said:
I think most of the DSLR innovation is now done.

roblem is, Canon is driven by product differentiation, max. profit (lowest cost & highest prices) and they are so conservative they probably don't think about real innovations, even not with a cpu as fast as their digic5 (or 6).

i might be wrong, but every company is driven by those assumptions. Nikon has not the upper hand in terms of sales for the entry level nor probably the uber-pro (D4 vs 1DX), so in order to steal Canon's share they offer a more extensive set of features with their cameras. As long as Canon has the upper hand they will never make a revolutionary product, only incremental changes. Sorry for being captain obvious.

Also I'm surprised how long this conversation has been going, there is a new entry-level model every year that will entice only the beginners that dont have a camera yet. There haven't been any changes with the 650D but companies that have the sales upper hand do that (iphone 4 and 4s anyone? im sure there are people here who had both). Nobody here is gonna buy the 700D unless as backup body, if you want 7D features in a backup body you know what to buy.
 
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GMCPhotographics said:
I think most of the DSLR innovation is now done. So we get very simular new models with very simular specs.
I don't think Canon will ever put a pro AF system in any camera which isn't in it's pro portfolio. So lets get real here, if you want a 5DIII or 1Dx Spec then that's not going to ever happen in a XXXD camera.
Do you work for Canon? Why are people so quick to say that today's cameras don't need to get any better, or we shouldn't expect more, or they cant cost less?
Maybe it won't be in a Canon XXXD body, but it may be in a Sony Mirrorless or Fuji camera real soon(maybe even a Nikon, check the AF on the D5200.)
Maybe you are happy with paying 3000 dollars for a huge DSLR, but many people aren't. Canon wants us to think like you, but other companies who aren't on top are hoping other people still want more, which I do.
If Canon continues to think that no one wants better specs at a lower price and everyone is happy with the size, price and features of the current offerings, then there will be a long, long fall from the top.
Sure, the best of the best cameras will always be expensive, but I see no reason why a camera with 5DIII specs cant cost 1000 bucks in 5-10 years.
 
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EchoLocation said:
Sure, the best of the best cameras will always be expensive, but I see no reason why a camera with 5DIII specs cant cost 1000 bucks in 5-10 years.

It certainly will, well, actually in 10y nobody will want to use the 5d3 as a doorstopper (and all other current dlsrs).

As for "expensive" it really is about what you pay for - yes, but only for bleeding edge hardware that is really expensive to produce because new facilities and r&d want to be paid, too. A large "premium" and "early adopter's" fee will probably also stay as long as we have capitalism (predictions are pretty good atm).

But as for software - the xxxd or maybe xxd line would be a perfect place to implement new features, but Canon only targets amateurs but not innovators, they very seldom update their fw after release. If they would hire the main Magic Lantern dev they'd have a stellar fw in a year's time that blows every other dslr out of the water - but they don't want to because they want to sell their top gear. And top gear is conservative by default, because as a pro you want 110% tried and stable equipment.
 
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Zlatko said:
I believe your guess also correctly explains exactly why AFMA is not included on the new Rebel SL1: useless to most users, not a lot of requests for it. So the manufacturer makes the most sensible decision.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I think it's at least as easy to understand and useful to the Rebel user base as 2-axis white balance!

You're avoiding the question about whether the useful "edit CSS" feature should be offered to all WordPress.com customers,

Thought the question is not terribly relevant here, I did address it though maybe I didn't make myself clear enough. Yes, of course the marginal cost of enabling that feature for the remainder of the user base is either zero or very close to zero.

In software, marginal costs of expanding or upgrading the user base are nearly always close to zero, but you will always lose if you price near or at marginal costs (because marginal costs are zero or close to zero whereas fixed costs are very high).

So the answer to your question which is, essentially, "why don't software vendors price at marginal costs" is:

"because marginal costs are dwarfed by fixed costs. If they price at or near marginal costs they don't recuperate their fixed costs).

Also, in this particular case (wordpress), it is most likely that the non-paying users if not free riders are not the primary source of profits (actually IMHO they are pretty close to free riders). This is not the way it is with cameras, where (a) the marginal costs are not at all negligible, and (b) the cheaper models are a major (perhaps primary) source of revenue that the manufacturer can use to offset fixed costs.
 
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P

paul13walnut5

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whatta said:
there is a reason why I still did not change the 400d, even though I've been very keen for a while. After waiting so long, I would not invest money into a very new body but very old tech in it :(

I was not expecting much, but still even surpised with this release..

btw the new sigma 30/1.4 can do AFMA instead of the body!!!!

Point of sheer bloody minded pedantry, there is no new 30mm f1.4. It's a 35mm f1.4 and it's full frame not DC It's an entirely new lens, not a new version. Looks quite nice too, but the USB dock (required for calibration) isn't provided with lens, and my experience of the 30mm f1.4 DC lends me to believe that the lens will need calibration.

I had a 400D which I would probably still be using were it not for video. No shame in that at all.
 
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sandymandy said:
The recent cameras are better than your 400D and its noticeable in image quality also. But why sad u are still using your 400D? I think its awesome u still get along with that camera where many other people already threw it away. It seems really nice to me you dont rely on technique but rather your photo skills :)
I borrowed a 650d and to be honest I was not convinced. Yes it is better, but far not as better as what I would expect that many generations and years later.

thanks btw :)
 
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paul13walnut5 said:
whatta said:
there is a reason why I still did not change the 400d, even though I've been very keen for a while. After waiting so long, I would not invest money into a very new body but very old tech in it :(

I was not expecting much, but still even surpised with this release..

btw the new sigma 30/1.4 can do AFMA instead of the body!!!!
Point of sheer bloody minded pedantry, there is no new 30mm f1.4. It's a 35mm f1.4 and it's full frame not DC It's an entirely new lens, not a new version. Looks quite nice too, but the USB dock (required for calibration) isn't provided with lens, and my experience of the 30mm f1.4 DC lends me to believe that the lens will need calibration.
excuse me? :eek:

"Announced Jan 29, 2013 The Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC HSM lens is a redesigned version of Sigma's popular 30mm F1.4 prime. On APS-C cameras this lens covers an effective focal length of approximately 45mm, making it a very useful standard focal length. The new lens has an optical configurations of nine elements in eight groups, including a double-aspheric element, with rounded aperture blades for attractive blur in out of focus areas. The new 30mm F1.4 is also compatible with Sigma’s new USB Dock, which will enable firmware updates and focusing adjustments."

http://www.dpreview.com/products/Sigma/lenses/sigma_a_30_1p4
 
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awinphoto said:
not bad guys... 19 pages and going strong on 1 or 2 features missed on an entry level rebel... wow... slow news week I take it.

Imho this thread reflects a recently wider spread dissatisfaction with certain Canon product decision, i.e. the "value" as in new/overall features vs. price.

The Rebel is just a welcome issue for discussion, and I see it in conjunction with the 6d release (want an af assist beam (Nikon d600 has it built-in)? Get a €500 flash! Want to get the flash off the hotshoe? Get a €300 controller! Still want af assist? Get a second flash for €500 instead...).
 
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fonts said:
LetTheRightLensIn said:
awinphoto said:
You know how silly you are sounding? I've shot with the 10d all the way to 7d and 5d's. all the prior cameras had even less DR than the 5d3. I've shot landscape, portraits, weddings, aviation, macro, etc. I know what I want and how to get it and I don't blame my gear. I know how to get what I want with what I have, and that used to not be much. I couldn't care less how much DR a camera has, as long as I can get what I want

goody for you, not everyone can get all the DR they need for all types of shots, if you never shoot that fine but don't pretend that is the case for everyone

Sigh..give it time. I don't know why people don't get that there isn't ONE company that has the best of everything in their product for that industry. Seriously, if you REALLY NEED the DR then just get Nikon bodies. You should already know this. It's not me being an asshole but research what you want before investing. Stop blaming Canon for not dedicating their R&D into something they never promised. If you look at any sporting event, you will see Canon dominating the floor, why? Because Canon produces the best High ISO and FPS DSLR out there. Take that into consideration when you ask for more DR; its not their main objective.

Seriously be realistic. Every manufacture has their benefits and weakness. If you obviously need the DR then again get the gear that is right for YOU. Canon will make higher DR cameras, but just cause it's not NOW doesn't mean they suck.

If you don't speak up about it ahead of time then it will be too late. If none of us talks about DR and then the 5D4 comes around has the same old 10-15 year old sensor tech it'll be kinda too late then no? Some of us would rather get the DR in a Canon system and rather not end up having to switch. Although if the next 5D4/7D2 gen is still lacking then as much as I don't want to I may finally do that. And yes they do need a good waking up from their user base before it's too late, you should've heard the Canon bigwig at the euro show a few years ago bragging about how they were infinitely far ahead of the competition and saw no need to do anything as the king can sit on the hill and do nothing and thrive. yeah....




Also again, the AFMA arguement needs to stop. It's not like its only 50% of Rebel users are beginners, its a massive amount which can be estimated to 80%. LEAVE IT BE. Know that the Rebel line is not targeting Advanced users. Yes I wouldn't mind if they did add it, but it doesn't make it a BAD camera because it doesn't have it.

It's a sad thing that a free features gets crippled out of various bodies by marketing.

To add to that, it's not FIXING anything BROKEN. Being within specs is a choice, a choice that benefits us the consumers. If you really wanted everything perfectly aligned to begin with then trust me, forum sites would be down for week with threads yelling at Canon for raising the price by an insane amount. So stop with this battle, learn to pick your fights, its not broken, its how its meant to be.

Yeah well if you body is a +1 and you lenses are all -1 to +1 maybe not, if you body is +8 and your lenses are -8 to +15 then it's kinda broken. And they crippled it out of the 40D and 60D too. And you say go send your stuff in, yeah that is fun and miss 2 weeks of shooting or more and, if they are too busy, maybe they say six weeks and you miss major expeditions and events?
Nobody is saying to toss 5D3 AF into the Rebel or to give it 10fps or silent shutter or anything. Just give them ALL, across the entire line, MFA so they can all work to the spec of each line (which is lower, even when perfectly calibrated for the lowest vs the highest) and give it at least one real feature better than the previous model instead of wasting all those resources re-badging an old model. If they don't want to get sales eaten by iphones and such why not have tossed the WIFI stuff into it?
 
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LetTheRightLensIn said:
fonts said:
LetTheRightLensIn said:
awinphoto said:
You know how silly you are sounding? I've shot with the 10d all the way to 7d and 5d's. all the prior cameras had even less DR than the 5d3. I've shot landscape, portraits, weddings, aviation, macro, etc. I know what I want and how to get it and I don't blame my gear. I know how to get what I want with what I have, and that used to not be much. I couldn't care less how much DR a camera has, as long as I can get what I want

goody for you, not everyone can get all the DR they need for all types of shots, if you never shoot that fine but don't pretend that is the case for everyone

Sigh..give it time. I don't know why people don't get that there isn't ONE company that has the best of everything in their product for that industry. Seriously, if you REALLY NEED the DR then just get Nikon bodies. You should already know this. It's not me being an asshole but research what you want before investing. Stop blaming Canon for not dedicating their R&D into something they never promised. If you look at any sporting event, you will see Canon dominating the floor, why? Because Canon produces the best High ISO and FPS DSLR out there. Take that into consideration when you ask for more DR; its not their main objective.

Seriously be realistic. Every manufacture has their benefits and weakness. If you obviously need the DR then again get the gear that is right for YOU. Canon will make higher DR cameras, but just cause it's not NOW doesn't mean they suck.

If you don't speak up about it ahead of time then it will be too late. If none of us talks about DR and then the 5D4 comes around has the same old 10-15 year old sensor tech it'll be kinda too late then no? Some of us would rather get the DR in a Canon system and rather not end up having to switch. Although if the next 5D4/7D2 gen is still lacking then as much as I don't want to I may finally do that. And yes they do need a good waking up from their user base before it's too late, you should've heard the Canon bigwig at the euro show a few years ago bragging about how they were infinitely far ahead of the competition and saw no need to do anything as the king can sit on the hill and do nothing and thrive. yeah....




Also again, the AFMA arguement needs to stop. It's not like its only 50% of Rebel users are beginners, its a massive amount which can be estimated to 80%. LEAVE IT BE. Know that the Rebel line is not targeting Advanced users. Yes I wouldn't mind if they did add it, but it doesn't make it a BAD camera because it doesn't have it.

It's a sad thing that a free features gets crippled out of various bodies by marketing.

To add to that, it's not FIXING anything BROKEN. Being within specs is a choice, a choice that benefits us the consumers. If you really wanted everything perfectly aligned to begin with then trust me, forum sites would be down for week with threads yelling at Canon for raising the price by an insane amount. So stop with this battle, learn to pick your fights, its not broken, its how its meant to be.

Yeah well if you body is a +1 and you lenses are all -1 to +1 maybe not, if you body is +8 and your lenses are -8 to +15 then it's kinda broken. And they crippled it out of the 40D and 60D too. And you say go send your stuff in, yeah that is fun and miss 2 weeks of shooting or more and, if they are too busy, maybe they say six weeks and you miss major expeditions and events?
Nobody is saying to toss 5D3 AF into the Rebel or to give it 10fps or silent shutter or anything. Just give them ALL, across the entire line, MFA so they can all work to the spec of each line (which is lower, even when perfectly calibrated for the lowest vs the highest) and give it at least one real feature better than the previous model instead of wasting all those resources re-badging an old model. If they don't want to get sales eaten by iphones and such why not have tossed the WIFI stuff into it?

I'll agree with one thing you said there, they should toss in the wifi, that would be a total hit for the crowd low end rebels are made for.

As to much of the rest, where to begin???

How about with this. A never ending discussion on a rumor site will not get you that change. Communicate with canon. Of course, that may not get you anywhere because most people buying rebels will shoot with the kit lens and on green box auto everything mode. Again, most don't even know what a focus point is, much less know when you may need to use it.

You mention the 5d series and DR and how if we don't endlessly debate it the next 5d will have the same sensor. I again say, bring the issue to canon. The 5d3 is exactly what the bulk of 5d2 users wanted, better low light, better AF, better build, expanded ISO range. We isn't demand 30+ MP's until Nikon announced the d800. And as we know, canon will have a big mp body in 2014.

As to the last point, what are you shooting that's so important you can't send body and lens in for calibration? Rent some equipment if its that important.
 
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Malte_P said:
kraats said:
How about you just get a camera and go out and shoot. Taking nice pics is not about the best tech ......
his is a forum focused on new technology you know?
so telling people to NOT talk about technology is a bit paradox.

+1 - this is one of the thought-terminating clichés that I don't like (We all do know it's about shooting), the other is "if you don't like the prices go get a better job". It is indeed arguable how much 100% crop sharpness matters, but other than that each photog has to decide for himself how & what he shoots and much weight is put into the newest gear.
 
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