Deal: Canon EOS RP body & mount adapter $1046 (Reg $1299)

Graphic.Artifacts

EOS 7D MK II
Aug 1, 2017
450
256
The RP will have the typical FF high ISO advantage, more shallow DoF, and will produce sharper images ooc. The sharpness is somewhat irrelevant at low ISO where you can sharpen in post, especially against a 32mp crop sensor. But it will be very relevant at high ISO where crop is already behind and sharpening just emphasizes noise. Contrary to popular belief, the 6D2 / RP sensor has very good high ISO performance.

Unless you go high MP FF, those are the advantages of FF and the RP checks every box. DR is often mistaken for being a FF advantage but there are plenty of examples of crop cameras having higher DR than FF ones, and not just Sony vs. Canon. The M6 II likely has higher DR than a Nikon D5 (for example). Regardless, the one weakness of the RP for stills would be some of the "worst" DR for a shipping camera. "Worst" is in quotes because as I've shown in this forum with a mere 7D there's still plenty of shadow recovery even in the "worst" sensors.

The M6 II will resolve more detail at base ISO (32mp vs 26mp) and will have a DR advantage, in addition to its feature advantages (video; high FPS; higher performance AF).

I think if I was looking for a budget stills mirrorless I would rank the RP above the M6 II by a hair, and that's in part due to RF glass access. Problem is for another $300 gray market you can go 50mp FF, which is a very large IQ jump. You just have to live with a 'flappy mirror'. But you also get professional AF, 5D build quality, long battery life, OVF IQ, etc.

If I was looking for a stills/video hybrid then I would rank the M6 II much higher than the RP. From the sample videos I've seen the 90D / M62 produce sharp, excellent 4k footage in both full sensor and crop sensor modes.* And the M6 II has DPAF across every mode except the 120fps HD mode which the RP doesn't even have.

* DPReview's video test comparison tool makes the 90D/M6 II look very poor at 4k compared to, say, an X-T3. But I've now had the chance to review several 4k sample videos and they look as sharp as the X-T3 or A73. Right away when I viewed the DSI Pictures sample video I was impressed as it had the same crisp 4k detail as the others, even at high ISO. At this point I have to assume DPReview did something wrong or used a poor lens. The X-T3 is still the better cinema camera (4k 60p; higher bitrates) but if you can live with 30p @ 120Mbps the M6 II's output is gorgeous.
Depends on how you want to use it I guess. The 6D Mark II is indistinguishable from the 5D Mark III to my eye and not much better than the 5D Mark II. I wouldn't buy a camera with that kind of performance in 2019. The way I sling around gradients in lightroom it just doesn't work for me. You have to look pretty hard to find an area where the full size sensor in the RP outperforms the APS-C M62 sensor in any meaningful way. If you normalize for size the newer sensor is in a different league entirely.

Of course, if shallow depth of field is a priority than go with the biggest sensor you can afford. But that being said, baseline ISO for that sensor is not that good by current standards. I'd either get the m62 or just bite the bullet and step up to the R if you want the benefits of the new RF mount.

I was just talking about stills. Every time I act like these cameras should be able to shoot video I get flamed so I don't even bother with that anymore.
 

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,394
828
Depends on how you want to use it I guess. The 6D Mark II is indistinguishable from the 5D Mark III to my eye and not much better than the 5D Mark II. I wouldn't buy a camera with that kind of performance in 2019.
Let's look at images then...

I claimed the RP would be sharper ooc. Difference is quite small and post processing would eliminate it at low ISO, but it's there even when normalized.

sharpness.jpg

I claimed the RP would be better at high ISO and it is, again even when normalized.

high-iso.jpg

DPReview hasn't finished their latitude tests for the 90D or M6 II yet. But user reports all indicate DR very close to the 80D. I wouldn't want to push an RP RAW more than 3ev, or an 80D RAW more than 4ev, and they're very close at these limits. So that's about a stop difference. Certainly something to acknowledge, but not a 5D II versus a D850.

dr.jpg

The vast majority of photographs do not need to be pushed 3ev or more, so there's no real basis for claiming that the RP sensor isn't suitable in 2019. And with all due respect...I don't consider these differences "a different league" in either direction.

None of this is to mock the M6 II. I think Canon has probably the best APS-C sensor out now because I value resolution over a little more DR. And the M6 II is well spec'd for it's price. To be honest the M6 II feels like an 'exciting' camera while the RP feels a bit lackluster except of course for the fact that it's low cost FF. I wouldn't fault anyone for wanting the M6 II over an RP. But the RP does have a couple IQ advantages (high ISO; ooc sharpness; shallow DoF) while the M6 II has others (resolution; DR).
 

Graphic.Artifacts

EOS 7D MK II
Aug 1, 2017
450
256
Let's look at images then...

I claimed the RP would be sharper ooc. Difference is quite small and post processing would eliminate it at low ISO, but it's there even when normalized.

View attachment 186761

I claimed the RP would be better at high ISO and it is, again even when normalized.

View attachment 186762

DPReview hasn't finished their latitude tests for the 90D or M6 II yet. But user reports all indicate DR very close to the 80D. I wouldn't want to push an RP RAW more than 3ev, or an 80D RAW more than 4ev, and they're very close at these limits. So that's about a stop difference. Certainly something to acknowledge, but not a 5D II versus a D850.

View attachment 186763

The vast majority of photographs do not need to be pushed 3ev or more, so there's no real basis for claiming that the RP sensor isn't suitable in 2019. And with all due respect...I don't consider these differences "a different league" in either direction.

None of this is to mock the M6 II. I think Canon has probably the best APS-C sensor out now because I value resolution over a little more DR. And the M6 II is well spec'd for it's price. To be honest the M6 II feels like an 'exciting' camera while the RP feels a bit lackluster except of course for the fact that it's low cost FF. I wouldn't fault anyone for wanting the M6 II over an RP. But the RP does have a couple IQ advantages (high ISO; ooc sharpness; shallow DoF) while the M6 II has others (resolution; DR).
Pretty easy to see the difference between modern sensors and Canon pre-80D sensors in my opinion. I've shot a couple hundred thousand images on 5D's. I think this chart indicates it pretty well. I wouldn't be shooting with those sensors for my personal portfolio. If you can't see the difference now it will become more and more obvious as sensors continue to improve and those images will still be there. You are entitled to you opinion though. Personally I don't take DPR too seriously for DR.

 
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Quirkz

EOS 80D
Oct 30, 2014
175
103
Pretty easy to see the difference between modern sensors and Canon pre-80D sensors in my opinion. I've shot a couple hundred thousand images on 5D's. I think this chart indicates it pretty well. I wouldn't be shooting with those sensors for my personal portfolio. If you can't see the difference now it will become more and more obvious as sensors continue to improve and those images will still be there. You are entitled to you opinion though. Personally I don't take DPR too seriously for DR.

It would be educational for me if you could share some of your portfolio where you feel this this made a difference?
 

Graphic.Artifacts

EOS 7D MK II
Aug 1, 2017
450
256
It would be educational for me if you could share some of your portfolio where you feel this this made a difference?
In my experience that won't help or change anyone's mind about anything. I've spent the better part of the last year re-working my image catalog building sets of multi-year and multi-camera projects. I find that images from 5D3 and previous gen cameras break down very quickly under heavy editing and it's just going to get worse as new editing tools become available. It's not as if the images are garbage. It's more that they just aren't as good as they would be with a modern sensor. That wasn't an option (in CanonLand) when I took them but it is now.

I'd go with a Canon with a modern sensor such as the 90D/M62 or the 5D4/R which are both excellent sensors IMO. I think purchasing the RP and 6D2 are "penny-wise and pound foolish". But that's just my opinion based on what I find important and it's probably worth about what you paid for it.
 

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,394
828
Pretty easy to see the difference between modern sensors and Canon pre-80D sensors in my opinion.
Then you should have no difficulty showing me a real world image you shot which not only has more recovery than this one, but so much more that it's 'a different league.'

Personally I don't take DPR too seriously for DR.
Please enlighten us as to what they're doing wrong when they underexpose and push their studio test scene.

I find that images from 5D3 and previous gen cameras break down very quickly under heavy editing and it's just going to get worse as new editing tools become available.
What are new tools going to do differently in the same 16-bit per pixel space?
 

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Graphic.Artifacts

EOS 7D MK II
Aug 1, 2017
450
256
I think I'll go back to ignoring leg sloberers. This is how it always ends up. If you have something to say just stand on your own two feet and say it. If you dont like or agree with my post that's fine. I couldn't care less.
 

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,394
828
I think I'll go back to ignoring leg sloberers. This is how it always ends up. If you have something to say just stand on your own two feet and say it.
Two people have asked you to back up your claims with real world examples. I am standing on my own two feet backing up my claims. Where are you?

You are absolutely entitled to your own opinion. You are not entitled to have that opinion stand uncontested in a public forum, especially when the opinion is fantastic ('a league apart', 'RP sensor not good enough for 2019') yet not backed up by anything. And if you don't care when your claim is challenged, you wouldn't bother replying at all.

It's nothing personal. I recall...in one thread...saying that the 6D2's high ISO was better than the A72's. I was called out on that claim because of the 'Sony sensor is better' meme. I didn't reply by resorting to name calling or saying I was going to ignore people. I posted sample high ISO tests from DPReview and that was the end of it.

BTW: you should read the description of the graph you posted. It's not saying what you think it's saying. You probably intended to post this information which shows the 90D (and M6 II since they are the same sensor) has better base ISO DR by a stop. This corresponds to DPReview's results which you 'don't take too seriously.'

It's worth noting that the RP has higher DR from ISO 800 (actually 636) on.
 

addola

Sold my soul for a flippy screen
Nov 16, 2015
65
29
I don't care at all about the dynamic range. EOS RP uses the smaller battery :(