Did Canon confirm the 45mp resolution of the Canon EOS R5 sensor?

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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Indeed, its pretty much the same camera (same sensor, same quality...)
Only difference:
- touch bar bullshit instead of wheel
-- only one card slot
o bit smaller
o EVF
+ swivel screen
+ more modern video codec (though the rolling shutter is the same inaccaptable catastrophy)

In my opinion its super close to being the same camera. At least when we look at the features and image quality
I've always seen the EOS R as a mirrorless 6D Mark II with the 5D Mark IV sensor. For everything other than the sensor, it's more comparable to a 6D series body than a 5D series body.
 
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Michael Clark

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That's what Bryan at TDP came up with as well
Brian assumes 8K DCI is 16:9 instead of 17:9. If 8K DCI is twice the width of 4K DCI, it's 4192 pixels wide. There's a discussion of this in the comments to his post at TDP.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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To be fair, the 1DC was a DSLR that was video-centric. :p

Agreed, though, that the R5 and R6 segmentation is not about one being video-centric and the other stills-centric. As SLClick and others have said, the monikers communicate a similar segmentation and positioning as the EF-mounted 5D and 6D, respectively.

Price-wise, I've expected the R5 to be consistent with 5D pricing at $3,299-$3,499. The mind-blowing specs, though, have me wondering if they'll push it to $3,699 or even a little higher like they did the 5DS(R). I see $3,999 as a hard ceiling for the 5 series and would be surprised if the R5 even got close to it. Given the well-established positioning of the 5 series, along with the current global economic landscape, I'm still feeling confident it will be in the mid-$3K range (USD).

I know everyone is drooling over the video specs, but on the stills side, the R5 has me drooling, too:

> 45PM
> 12-20FPS
> Articulating Screen
> At least 5DIV, or better, ISO and DR performance

The announcement can't come soon enough for this stills shooter!
I think it will be priced at around $3,799 in the U.S. on release when limited numbers will be available due to coronavirus related production delays. Once the production pipeline opens back up, I'd expect it to drop to around $3,499 fairly soon, probably via perpetual $300 rebates.
 
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Michael Clark

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As I ruminate a little more on pricing, another thought occurs to me: A good reason to keep the price in the traditional 5D range is the fact that those who might have been willing to pay $5K for the R5 will likely be even happier buying TWO R5 bodies at $3,499. I think the pricing sweet spot is one that is:

1) High enough to maximize ROI in as short a timeline as possible,
2) Low enough to still fit within the 5-Series market positioning, and
3) Low enough for the deeper pockets to buy a second body.

From comments on other threads, it seems like there are quite a few who would pay $4,500+ for the R5. Just seems to make sense that those might also be people whose use case would support needing another body.

It's better for Canon if pros buy two cheaper bodies for $7K than one body for $5K. No, they're not the primary market in this segment, but there will definitely be some who go that route, which is gravy that might make the lower price possible for everyone else.

Am I crazy?
It's only more profitable for Canon to sell two bodies for $7,000 than one body for $5,000 if the unit cost of production is below $2,000. If the cost of production is $2,100, the margin is $2,900 off one body at $5,000 and only $2,800 off two bodies at $3,500 each. Of course R&D, administrative support, worldwide transportation, customer service, publicity/advertising, and repair support are all overhead that must come out of the margin between production cost and retail price. The overhead for transportation and repair support also double for two bodies compared to one.
 
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Michael Clark

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It is laid out pure and simple, apart from having EF-mount, a mirror and an OVF, it won't be too much different from this camera, same sensor, same processor, same CFExpress UHS-II SD dual card slots setup (it probably won't shoot 12fps with mechanical shutter, but it will do 20fps electronic shutter).
The only big question mark if it is going to have IBIS or not, and the screen, which is probably going to articulate in some way, while keeping the durability as much as possible.
The BIG question mark is will there even be a 5D Mark V? I think Canon management already knows, but they aren't talking.
 
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Michael Clark

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Why all the secrecy from Canon on EOS R5 ? Maybe they haven't finished the specs yet ? Seems rather odd and annoying to Canon users :mad:
They're building buzz. By the time this thing actually releases, the market will be salivating for it far beyond even its exceptional specs.
 
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Michael Clark

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Personally I am not happy with this DCI 8k/4k thing. It means UHD will be slightly cropped. I do not have use for the extra width, all the displays I think my content will be watched at will probably be 16:9 anyway. But well, some other people will be very happy with that. Anyway, if it has a 1:1 pixel HD mode (with crop factor 4!), that would be great. Small files with additional reach.

Awesome camera, probably too much for me, though, in terms of capabilities and cost anyway.

But in relation to R6 this is interesting. I predict R6 will also support no-crop 4k DCI; and to make things easy, there would be 2x supersampling (or pixel binning) for 4k, which would make it have a 22-23 MP sensor.
8K UHD would use about 94% of the full width of an 8K DCI sensor. That's not really much of a crop factor at 1.06X.

I'm sure they'd lose more potential buyers if they did not offer 8K and 4K DCI to appease those who want only 8K/4K UHD.
 

BurningPlatform

EOS 80D
Mar 4, 2014
102
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8K UHD would use about 94% of the full width of an 8K DCI sensor. That's not really much of a crop factor at 1.06X.

I'm sure they'd lose more potential buyers if they did not offer 8K and 4K DCI to appease those who want only 8K/4K UHD.
That is very probably true, and my view was completely personal, and not a big deal anyway. As for the crop ratios, there is the additional (1.13 if I calculated correctly) intrinsic crop factor when going from 3:2 sensor to the 16:9 full width crop, and a bit more when going to DCI 4k full width crop. Not a big deal, but as the intrinsic crop is factored in the "horrible" crop factor of EOS R (about 1,8), it is good to remember.
 

IcyBergs

I have a Sony...TV
May 31, 2016
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I'm not sure why you would feel that way. it's going to be an insane stills machine from what we already know.

- 44.7MP
- 12FPS mech / 20 fps electronic - all with AF
- AF includes human, dog,cat and BIRD (body, head and eye)AF
- dual card slots (CFE, UHSII) - ie: fast buffer clearing.
- IBIS with IBIS+IS offering up to 8 stops of stabilization that also includes EF lenses.
- 1DX Mark III (this sensor generation) is VERY good in terms of noise and DR.
- AF Joystick control ie: 5D IV style.
- Articulating screen (no 5D / 7D class body hand one before)

APS-C size is around 17.5MP - which means this is nearly a 7D packaged inside it, well, a 7D on steroids.

You feel neglected with that?!

What we don't know . is this going to put the hammer to DR once and for all? will Canon do dual ISO like on the C300 III? curious about that. Even without it, this is a crazy good stills camera.

of course, Canon leading up to NAB was going to talk about the video - it's NAB - it would be VERY weird if Canon talked about the stills performance.
I agree with everything you said...but if this is priced substantially higher than the 5D series, I'll feel like I'm paying a premium for something I don't want/need and will at least give me pause.

Which is why I added the caveat "...at least until pricing is announced"

If the R5 comes in priced anywhere close to $3499 USD there will be no second guessing.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
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That is very probably true, and my view was completely personal, and not a big deal anyway. As for the crop ratios, there is the additional (1.13 if I calculated correctly) intrinsic crop factor when going from 3:2 sensor to the 16:9 full width crop, and a bit more when going to DCI 4k full width crop. Not a big deal, but as the intrinsic crop is factored in the "horrible" crop factor of EOS R (about 1,8), it is good to remember.
It would be a 1.06X crop shooting 8K UHD compared to the width of 8K DCI.
 

Go Wild

EOS RP
Dec 8, 2014
202
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I agree with everything you said...but if this is priced substantially higher than the 5D series, I'll feel like I'm paying a premium for something I don't want/need and will at least give me pause.

Which is why I added the caveat "...at least until pricing is announced"

If the R5 comes in priced anywhere close to $3499 USD there will be no second guessing.
You always will have the R6 and the R possibility if R5 is beyond your needs, or beyond your price point. It´s all about personal preferences or possibilities. I do believe that the price "limit" is 4000$, Canon should´t surpass this and i DO believe the price will be around 3900$ with the R6 coming at 2600$/2800$. This will make sense to everyone and is the price that market can hold. Further than this it will be overpriced. This cameras will be huge, we know that, but Canon also know that they can´t increase prices way beyond the others. Sony ones are about 3400$ for the Sony A7R4 and 4400$ for the A9II (which I consider overpriced).

Well I guess we just need to wait to see what´s coming and hope that Canon can put a decent price on this one. We had an increase of price of the EOS 1DXmkIII, price jumped almost 1000$ from the 1DxmkII but i think its another context and another reality...The last one from it´s kind...etc..etc...

Like most of us I am praying that the price can be around 3500$.....I guess we just need to have hope! :D
 
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slclick

Cyclist, photog, drummer & sardonic haiku writer
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It is sort of the reverse of people being bothered because they think Canon is crippling their cameras by leaving out stuff they want. Now they think Canon is screwing them by forcing them to pay more by putting stuff in a camera they don’t want.
No one is forcing me to do anything, I'm glad there are more choices. Please don't read something into anything I wrote about this matter if you based that post upon my multiple stills shooting posts.Don't we all want what is best for ourselves? I am also realistic about what may come.
 
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RobbieHat

EOS T7i
Feb 4, 2015
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Rocklin, CA/The Sea Ranch, CA
Quite a few stills shooters feeling neglected right now (myself among them) with all the video spec excitement at least until the R5 price is announced. Naturally, we stills folks immediately wonder if the R6 is going to be a viable alternative or not - at the latest rumored resolution (20mp) it might not be for many.
I view the R5 as a stills guy wet dream for many purposes. I am a stills guy but will probably start playing with some of the video features when this comes out. I will presumably use this as my dedicated wildlife body if all the rumored focusing specs play out and replace my 5DSR for that purpose.

I love the 5DSR for stationary wildlife and some BIF but it is very frustrating in many respects. Doesn't handle higher ISO well and limited in higher ISO. SLOW focusing system and rarely stays locked on unless my technique is perfect (not easy with a 600mm II lens). No eye focusing (hoping that feature works well). Weak at overall focusing system as it is built around 7 year old technology. Doesn't handle extenders well at all (1.4X barely usable, 2X not at all). Better DR than 5DSR so better in marginal lighting conditions (forest, dusk, dawn). Not to mention 12X and 20X frames per second so I can capture every possible wing beat position!

I will lose 5MP of resolution, which I love, but will gain so much more in capability that I assume with good technique my keeper rate will skyrocket. Maybe I am overplaying it, but I can't wait! I will also likely use this rig for Milky Way shots if the ISO handling and DR goes up. Cant wait for the tilty shifty display and better EVF for macro shots and those how low can you go upward shots in the forest.

I am still hoping for a megapixel monster to replace my 5DSR for landscape stills and other use and will likely be all in for the RF lens system if they release a lighter f4 trinity with something wider than 15mm. I will adapt my long EF glass with the R5.

I know price will be high but I have been sitting on my 5D mark III and 5 DSR for a number of years and waiting for Canon to step up. It appears the time has finally arrived!

Bob
 

IcyBergs

I have a Sony...TV
May 31, 2016
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It is sort of the reverse of people being bothered because they think Canon is crippling their cameras by leaving out stuff they want. Now they think Canon is screwing them by forcing them to pay more by putting stuff in a camera they don’t want.
First, most of the people who thought Canon was crippling their cameras weren't primarily stills shooters. So to assume that any and all criticism comes from the same cohort is quite a stretch. The old adage "you can't please everyone" applies here, serve one master alienate another. And from what I've written/read even calling it criticism is a stretch in itself. Most of the sentiment has been "I hope it isn't priced too high because I really don't care to pay a premium for video features" or "I wonder if the R6 (or future high MP body) will be a better camera for stills". I definitely wouldn't put this in the same category as "Canon cripples their gear, they're doomed, buying a Sony" so I think the comparison is unfair.

Second, there is no debate that the R5 (based on what is known about the camera) is going to be a great body for stills.

Third, if the price of R5 remains in the ballpark of what the 5D series was/has been then I think we'll all be content.
 
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slclick

Cyclist, photog, drummer & sardonic haiku writer
Dec 17, 2013
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Ok, I'll cool my jets on R6 talk for now, after all it's an R5 thread ;)

PLUS and this is a big one...there has not been anything said by Canon in regards to an R6, it's all rumor site talk. Please correct me if I am wrong, it happens every day.
 
Apr 21, 2020
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I'm sold on the joy stick, and circular pad. Where is the pre-order!! Canon really came out with a bang with this camera. Move aside Sony.

On second though, if the R6 has the same ergonomics, dual slots, joystick, and circular snaptube vidmate pad then that's the camera I'll be getting. I don't have use for 8k..
 
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Apr 21, 2020
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Does anyone think that the R5 will have crop modes 1.3 and 1.6 like the 5dsr? The R has a 1.6 crop mode. Coming from the 5dsr this is important for me. Or is this the one thing the R5 might not do!!?
 

BillB

EOS 6D MK II
May 11, 2017
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Ok, I'll cool my jets on R6 talk for now, after all it's an R5 thread ;)

PLUS and this is a big one...there has not been anything said by Canon in regards to an R6, it's all rumor site talk. Please correct me if I am wrong, it happens every day.
I think Canon did actually say something about the R6 when they made the preliminary announcement about the R5, but it wasn’t much. Also, I think the rumor on R6 specs did go to CR3, so there is that.
 
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