Do you think the 90D is superior to the 7DII?

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,816
3,332
Let's also see the rejects when the large birds were flying perpendicular to the lens' axis with the wings level with the bird's bodies and the camera focused on the tip of the nearest wing.
Unfortunately, I don't have any rejects as I focus the 9-points on the birds face. So I'll have to show a keeper of a Condor with a 10' wingspan.

3Q7A8589-DxO_condorSH.jpg
 

Maximilian

The dark side - I've been there
Nov 7, 2013
2,655
472
Germany
There obviously is more to it than you want to acknowledge.

Perhaps you are that good or perhaps you just do not need any advanced equipment for your photography. Then you are one of those people that could even uffice with the equipment from "10, 20, 30 or even 40 years ago" that you yourself mentioned earlier. Why get anything more advanced then?

If your arguments would be complete, then nobody would need a Canon 1DX or Nikon D5. And Canon and Nikon would not make them, because there is no need for them. Then we all would have your 200D/SL2 and perhaps the 90D you are so keen to promote for those that have too much money to spend.
I was never saying that good or better equipment wasn't needed or wanted or helpful. I only wanted to state that a 90D is much better than your opinion in your post that I quoted first.
Of course there is a lot of equipment with features that makes a photographers life easier.
Your first post stated that a 90D was far away from beeing in league with a 7DII and this simply isn't true. It is better in MP and ISO performance.
It is (almost) the same in FPS and AF performance. It is slightly worse in dual card and maybe in built.
But it is also reasonably cheaper.
It is right that there are no dual cards. That's crucial to some and irrelevant to some others. To me dual card is only true if dual the same type, e.g. 1DXII.
It is right that no. of AF points and AF point spread is a little bit worse than with a 7DII.
Maybe 45 AF points are much worde than 65 with wider spread.
But I am sure that a lot prefer a lower price over some slightly better features.

As I said, if you don't like the 90D spec list, skip it. But if you don't like it you don't have to put into the dirt for some points that haven't improved over the 7DII or are slightly worse.

So there also is obviously more to it than you want to acknowledge.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
1,140
570
Michael, here are 3 shots taken at random from my birds-in-flight in the last fortnight in Ecuador focussing using the central 9 points. Would I use if they didn't work?
View attachment 186330View attachment 186331View attachment 186332
Besides which, the 5Ds and 5Ds R do not even have the 9-point Zone AF selection mode found in the 80D and 90D that I'm referring to. If you are using the central 9 AF points with the 5Ds R, you are using Single AF point with 8 point expansion. That's the very AF area selection mode that I'm arguing the 90D needs in order to compare more favorably with the 7D Mark II.

Page 96 of the 5Ds/5Ds R manual:

20190904ss1.png


Page 124 of the 80D manual.


20190904ss2.png
 
Last edited:

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
1,140
570
I was never saying that good or better equipment wasn't needed or wanted or helpful. I only wanted to state that a 90D is much better than your opinion in your post that I quoted first.
Of course there is a lot of equipment with features that makes a photographers life easier.
Your first post stated that a 90D was far away from beeing in league with a 7DII and this simply isn't true. It is better in MP and ISO performance.
It is (almost) the same in FPS and AF performance. It is slightly worse in dual card and maybe in built.
But it is also reasonably cheaper.
It is right that there are no dual cards. That's crucial to some and irrelevant to some others. To me dual card is only true if dual the same type, e.g. 1DXII.
It is right that no. of AF points and AF point spread is a little bit worse than with a 7DII.
Maybe 45 AF points are much worde than 65 with wider spread.
But I am sure that a lot prefer a lower price over some slightly better features.

As I said, if you don't like the 90D spec list, skip it. But if you don't like it you don't have to put into the dirt for some points that haven't improved over the 7DII or are slightly worse.

So there also is obviously more to it than you want to acknowledge.
We don't really know what the 90D's performance at various ISO settings is yet.

If it is anything like the difference between the 80D and 7D Mark II, the only significant difference in DR will be at ISO 400 and below. In terms of S/N ratio, the 7D Mark II performs better than the 80D above ISO 800. But we don't really know any of that yet about the 90D until it has been measured by independent testers.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Ah-Keong

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,816
3,332
Besides which, the 5Ds and 5Ds R do not even have the 9-point Zone AF selection mode found in the 80D and 90D that I'm referring to. If you are using 9-point AF with the 5Ds R, you are using Single AF point with 8 point expansion. That's the very AF area selection mode that I'm arguing the 90D needs in order to compare more favorably with the 7D Mark II.

Page 96 of the 5Ds/5Ds R manual:

View attachment 186336

Page 124 of the 80D manual.


View attachment 186338
I am using the Manual Zone AF from the pages you have posted, the one on the far right.
20190904ss1.png
 

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,816
3,332
It looks to me like the sharpest point of focus of the condor is the far wingtip, not the face.
It's focussed on the body. The beak and claws are sharp and if it was backfocussed the nearest wing would be blurred. And, according to your own postings and the manual, the errors from zone focussing are focussing on the nearest not the furthest.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
1,140
570
I am using the Manual Zone AF from the pages you have posted, the one on the far right.View attachment 186339
OK. So I missed that it dropped from 12 to 9 points in the center of the AF array.

In my experience, I prefer Single AF with either 4-point or 8-point expansion over Zone AF for every use case I've tried both. It would be nice if the 90D gave us that choice.
 

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,816
3,332
OK. So I missed that it dropped from 12 to 9 points in the center of the AF array.

In my experience, I prefer Single AF with either 4-point or 8-point expansion over Zone AF for every use case I've tried both. It would be nice if the 90D gave us that choice.
We are here to exchange information and useful tips and so these discussions are useful. It would be good if there was a choice. The central 9 points are particularly useful when you want to focus on a bird and there is a background that a single point might lock on to as your focus slips sideways. The 9-points go for the nearest subject, which is usually the bird. If the bird is perched, I'll use spot focus. But, I found for the hummers, which are darting around with a lot of foliage behind, I was losing focus too easily and so I used the 9-points.
 

ronaldbyram

Photographing the Adventure
Nov 5, 2012
97
12
61
Charlote NC
Funnily there are still about two DSLRs being sold for every MILC globally. In the US (and probably Europe), it's more like three to one.
Hey weather its DSLR or Mirrorless I dont care as long as it has the Speed for sports/Nature. I want a camera with the Speed and Buffer to allow me to shoot Raw instead of having to switch to JPG for fast sporting events
 

ronaldbyram

Photographing the Adventure
Nov 5, 2012
97
12
61
Charlote NC
I looked at the 90D manual and noticed a few issues that some missing issues.
1. # of focus points
2. Not Able for custom file names
3. 2nd SD slot.
4. unknown Burst speed.
 

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,816
3,332
Aug 21, 2019
6
0
I had been waiting for the 7d3 to come out for ages and I am very disappointed to hear that it suppose to be shelved, and the 90d to take its place.to Which I don't think is a great improvement for the amount of years I have had my 7d2 to date and feel we are getting behind with our competitors ? Canon has not confirmed that this is true to my knowledge. unsure were to go now with things as weather to change all my gear
 

SteveC

M50 & T6i
Sep 3, 2019
385
245
I had been waiting for the 7d3 to come out for ages and I am very disappointed to hear that it suppose to be shelved, and the 90d to take its place.to Which I don't think is a great improvement for the amount of years I have had my 7d2 to date and feel we are getting behind with our competitors ? Canon has not confirmed that this is true to my knowledge. unsure were to go now with things as weather to change all my gear
We don't know any of that is true, so relax. The idea of replacing the 7D with the 90D was speculation only.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cruso

Sporgon

5% of gear used 95% of the time
I am paranoid about equipment failure.......
Card failure is the one area I don’t seem to worry about. Computer and chargers worry me as well as cables. It transpired that the MacBook failed to recognise our cameras and card reader but the tablet saved the day.
Agreed. I'd have though that on a trip to the Galapagos there's more chance of you dying en route than failing to retrieve data from a card that the camera has been able to read.
 
  • Love
Reactions: AlanF

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,816
3,332
Agreed. I'd have though that on a trip to the Galapagos there's more chance of you dying en route than failing to retrieve data from a card that the camera has been able to read.
You are absolutely right! 9 flights, clambering in and out of zodiacs, and hiking over rocks as well as snorkelling among sharks.
 

JuanMa

Canon New F1
May 10, 2018
66
53
Spain
I would have replaced my 7Dii by this camera without any kind of hesitation if the 90D was released 3 years ago. Mi 7DII will be replaced by a mirrorless camera when Canon will issue an acceptable mirrorless APS-C model.
 

SteveC

M50 & T6i
Sep 3, 2019
385
245
I would have replaced my 7Dii by this camera without any kind of hesitation if the 90D was released 3 years ago. Mi 7DII will be replaced by a mirrorless camera when Canon will issue an acceptable mirrorless APS-C model.
Imagine the M6 mark II with an integrated viewfinder. Where would you consider that to fall short? I'm not trying to beat on you, but I'm a relative "noob" trying to learn from people more advanced than I am.
 

Joules

EOS RP
Jul 16, 2017
377
302
Hamburg, Germany
Imagine the M6 mark II with an integrated viewfinder. Where would you consider that to fall short? I'm not trying to beat on you, but I'm a relative "noob" trying to learn from people more advanced than I am.
I don’t think the M series aims to ever be used as a 7D line replacement. Canon doesn't seem to market them as weather sealed at all, meaning they probably aren't. And if they stick with the 63mm lens diameter for all Ef-m lenses, we'll never see a super zoom or anything remotely fast and long in the native mount. We've also not seen a dual card slot M camera yet.

The 7D people seem to be looking for something withstanding harsh environmental conditions that can be used reliably and comfortably with long lenses, mainly for wildlife. The premise of keeping size and weight to an absolute minimum while keeping the price reasonable does not seem compatible with that.